EPTOn October 10 2025 07:04 supernovamaniac wrote:
Don't you ever forget the greatest game played on triathlon
time to log out
Don't you ever forget the greatest game played on triathlon
time to log out
SNM <3
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) - Page 4
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19371 Posts
SNM <3 | ||
|
tigera6
3512 Posts
| ||
|
RandomPlayer
Russian Federation400 Posts
| ||
|
MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On October 13 2025 16:58 RandomPlayer wrote: Maybe they should make Nexus cost 450 so that protoss doesn't expand like crazy. Maybe they should restore the number of resources per base, and reduce the number of bases per map, so that Protoss doesn't have to. | ||
|
Vision0
27 Posts
| ||
|
Creager
Germany1953 Posts
On October 13 2025 17:32 MJG wrote: Maybe they should restore the number of resources per base, and reduce the number of bases per map, so that Protoss doesn't have to. Oh, then please also revert the starting workers to 6 while you're at it. | ||
|
MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On October 13 2025 18:19 Creager wrote: Oh, then please also revert the starting workers to 6 while you're at it. Yes please!  | ||
|
ejozl
Denmark3527 Posts
| ||
|
Harris1st
Germany7347 Posts
On October 14 2025 02:38 ejozl wrote: I have been thinking that it's a strange design choice to actually have queens, if you want zerg to be the mass expanding race, since hatch + queen is obviously more expensive than nexus. Mb queen should've been a toss unit. The queen core ship? Love it! The Queen Core! | ||
|
tigera6
3512 Posts
| ||
|
RogueTheGOAT
166 Posts
On October 14 2025 02:38 ejozl wrote: I have been thinking that it's a strange design choice to actually have queens, if you want zerg to be the mass expanding race, since hatch + queen is obviously more expensive than nexus. Mb queen should've been a toss unit. The queen core ship? The Queen exists in part so that Zerg players do not need to build as many macro hatcheries, so the comparison is not to other town hall buildings but to army production buildings. Considering all of the other utility that Queens provide, you can't say with a straight face that Zerg gets the bad end of that trade. | ||
|
goody153
44282 Posts
On October 14 2025 02:38 ejozl wrote: I have been thinking that it's a strange design choice to actually have queens, if you want zerg to be the mass expanding race, since hatch + queen is obviously more expensive than nexus. Mb queen should've been a toss unit. The queen core ship? Back in initial sc2 release I always found it odd they changed the formula of how zerg operates with larva. I thought it was much harder to balance than just the previous hatcheries. Also yeah they feel more a toss unit On October 14 2025 21:09 tigera6 wrote: Queen was a Hero unit back in WOL alpha irrc, would be fun if we go back to that idea. Hmm On October 14 2025 21:48 RogueTheGOAT wrote: The Queen exists in part so that Zerg players do not need to build as many macro hatcheries, so the comparison is not to other town hall buildings but to army production buildings. Considering all of the other utility that Queens provide, you can't say with a straight face that Zerg gets the bad end of that trade. They could've implemented the creep tumor in a different way tbqh. It was a good idea but I was never a fan of injects. | ||
|
Vision0
27 Posts
| ||
|
playnice
Malaysia302 Posts
Perhaps the weirdest design decision that is set in stone is how SC2 expanded BW's scopes but limits its scale by sticking to 200 maximum unit cap. The cap was probably a technical necessity rather than a design choice, but lets just assume that it was intended to shorten game length and incentivize attacking at peak strength instead of getting countered by an opponent with free supply to do so. Zergs however breaks this paradigm. Banking larvae essentially made Zergs grow beyond max supply with no penalty. In fact the more Zergs turtle and bank resources and larvae after max supply, the better their chances gets. This has been a permanent fixture of the game. With worker supply starting higher and a higher income rate it only makes any strategy with the goal to get to late game quicker more appealing for Zergs. This is not to say that the design is "bad", but is undeniably the flavor of SC2 which has stayed this way for a while now. The unit cap is supposed to act as a point of diminishing return if player remain defensive or passive. But since production limits only apply to P and T, they hit this diminishing point while Z continues to grow. Had the game scale increased to include a higher cap, P and T may have more options to assemble compositions or more avenues of attack that forces Z urgent spending of larvae to stay competitive. Which brings us back to the Queen the unit directly enables and cements the flavor of SC2. Not because it has injects, but because it was patched into being the best defensive unit in the game, which just means that it's a very good unit to be a catchall for Z early game vulnerability. It's worth pointing out that the patches were way before increased starting workers and the fetish for huge maps. If Blizz intern values the dynamism of the game, he should reexamine the role of the Queen (protector/protectee) and how it contributes to the compression of game states reducing gameplay diversity viability in the game. | ||
|
ThunderJunk
United States741 Posts
On October 16 2025 04:06 playnice wrote: Which brings us back to the Queen the unit directly enables and cements the flavor of SC2. Not because it has injects, but because it was patched into being the best defensive unit in the game, which just means that it's a very good unit to be a catchall for Z early game vulnerability. It's worth pointing out that the patches were way before increased starting workers and the fetish for huge maps. If Blizz intern values the dynamism of the game, he should reexamine the role of the Queen (protector/protectee) and how it contributes to the compression of game states reducing gameplay diversity viability in the game. The idea that zerg counters to every attack in the early-midgame is just queens + lings always irked me. Injects are an ok mechanic - maybe not my favorite, but not terrible. Creep tumors are ridiculous. They grant vision, so zerg never has to worry about managing vision on their side of the map. Transfuse is ridiculous. You forget a bunch of injects because you're bad, and the game rewards you by making you hard to kill because the extra energy pools up? To have all 3 of these abilities on a single unit that doesn't even require larva to produce is just terrible imho. | ||
|
playnice
Malaysia302 Posts
To have all 3 of these abilities on a single unit that doesn't even require larva to produce is just terrible imho This is in addition to the Queen being an actual fighting unit. 2 Queens have the DPS of a Spine/Spore crawler and more total HP. | ||
|
stevejon
1 Post
| ||
|
Captain Peabody
United States3135 Posts
this is in fact just as if not more true in BW, where every race has things that are absolutely busted and would be unplayable if ported into SC2. the opposite is what makes dime-a-dozen RTSes fail, when races are either more or less identical except for slightly different units, with no mechanics that set them strongly apart in terms of playstyle, or when special units and mechanics feel weak and like they don't have much visceral impact on the gamestate. | ||
|
TeamMamba
262 Posts
If anything it’s the mule / scan that is broken and never been fixed. Free detection + free worker. Literally doesn’t cost anything Before the dumb people comes out and say “each scan cost 200 minerals”. Nope. Scan doesn’t cost anything. It only cost terran the opportunity to get 200 minerals faster but doesn’t physically cost 200 | ||
|
tigera6
3512 Posts
On October 16 2025 22:48 TeamMamba wrote: People still complaining about queens mechanics? If anything it’s the mule / scan that is broken and never been fixed. Free detection + free worker. Literally doesn’t cost anything Before the dumb people comes out and say “each scan cost 200 minerals”. Nope. Scan doesn’t cost anything. It only cost terran the opportunity to get 200 minerals faster but doesn’t physically cost 200 By that logic free larvae, free creep and free healing isnt OP? | ||
| ||
