EPTSome viewer numbers (without Chinese viewers) from EWC across all events.
Only 3 games had worse viewership than Starcraft.
Annual "is EPT/GSL over?" thread - (Answer: We Don't Know)…
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NO ONE KNOWS, AND ESL/GSL HAVE ALWAYS DRAGGED OUT MAKING AN ANNOUNCEMENT UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6685 Posts
Some viewer numbers (without Chinese viewers) from EWC across all events. Only 3 games had worse viewership than Starcraft. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23663 Posts
On September 25 2024 16:14 Harris1st wrote: https://esportsinsider.com/2024/08/esports-world-cup-2024-viewership Some viewer numbers (without Chinese viewers) from EWC across all events. Only 3 games had worse viewership than Starcraft. I mean they’re also most of the other big eSports titles If you’re amongst the least popular acts at a big music festival, it’s still notable that you’re booked Certain titles also probably had better EWC numbers but perhaps don’t have the regular year-round viewership SC2 gets. Hell Katowice got more viewers. Fortnite and EAFC are orders of magnitudes bigger than SC2 in terms of playerbase, or the numbers the big streamers and content creators do and they didn’t come close to proportionally outperforming SC2 I’m not huffing copium, I swear it’s just alcohol and cigarettes are my vices, SC2’s numbers are actually pretty good all things considered. Plus the demographic is a bit older, You’ve got a niche going where the overall set of eyes is smaller, but more invested (see GSL’s quite successful crowdfunding), and (outside of yours truly) should generally have a decent amount of disposable income too, I mean the latest GSL finals day pulled in 100K all told, it’s not megabucks but it’s not negligible either | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1052 Posts
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dysenterymd
1165 Posts
On September 25 2024 21:28 Balnazza wrote: The concern with that "Low viewership"-number isn't so much the fact that SC2 was that low - someone has to be - but the prizepool situation. Clem had the highest singular payout in the entire tournament. DotA2 had the highest prizepool with 1,5mil for the winner, but that gets split in five of course...so Clem technically outgrossed even that. And SC2 had the highest prizepool in all the 1v1 games aswell. The prize pool was insane yeah. The fact that it's so massive means that it could be cut without significant issue - I'm happy that SC2 pros got huge paydays, but if prizes were cut by 50% across the board I think players would fight just as hard for a 200k first place prize. EWC seems like it wants to be the biggest ever for everything though, so maybe they'd just drop SC2 before having a more middle of the road prize pool. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16365 Posts
On September 25 2024 10:35 geokilla wrote: Let's not forget professional players are humans too and there's no way can make a living competing in small tournaments. I'm totally fine with an entire scene of part time players and a community built circuit. I find its more fun that way. Is living with 10 guys in 1 room with 5 bunk beds the height of competitive play in Brood War? If so, I prefer the friendlier part time scene of Command & Conquer. Could these C&C players be better if they went blind staring into a glowing flat screen 70 hours a week? i guess. who cares. its just a video game. The "King of '94 World Championships" are this weekend. It is going to be a blast. EA has zero input; it is all community run. It is way more fun than any EA Sports run event. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6685 Posts
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Expensive-Law-9830
67 Posts
On September 26 2024 00:21 JimmyJRaynor wrote: I'm totally fine with an entire scene of part time players and a community built circuit. I find its more fun that way. Is living with 10 guys in 1 room with 5 bunk beds the height of competitive play in Brood War? If so, I prefer the friendlier part time scene of Command & Conquer. Could these C&C players be better if they went blind staring into a glowing flat screen 70 hours a week? i guess. who cares. its just a video game. The "King of '94 World Championships" are this weekend. It is going to be a blast. EA has zero input; it is all community run. It is way more fun than any EA Sports run event. No one is living like that anymore and BW has 16 times the average and total viewership, let alone 100% community funded scene. Total donations for BW were over 8 million + about about 3 million in daily proleague in 2023. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6685 Posts
On September 26 2024 17:37 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: No one is living like that anymore and BW has 16 times the average and total viewership, let alone 100% community funded scene. Total donations for BW were over 8 million + about about 3 million in daily proleague in 2023. Source? | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom792 Posts
On September 26 2024 17:37 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: No one is living like that anymore and BW has 16 times the average and total viewership, let alone 100% community funded scene. Total donations for BW were over 8 million + about about 3 million in daily proleague in 2023. 16 times the viewership of the BW Proleague era? I assume that's what Jimmy means by 5 bunk beds in a single room... | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES49496 Posts
Viewership is tricky with BW tournaments because afreeca(or well SOOP now that they rebranded) allows for restreams from their partners, so even if the official stream has 6-10k viewers on each gameday you'd have to add every individual streamer restreaming it too. They don't care because they get a cut of the money and nobody donates to the official stream. player earnings are posted on eloboard https://eloboard.com/men/bbs/board.php?bo_table=pro_win# though to note this is only one avenue of their earnings, I don't know if this counts tournament winnings, non-proleague donations and any personal sponsorships. other things to note is that it is top heavy, though if you break through you really reap the rewards and everyone now has a "streamer first" mentality since they earn more in streaming than anything else. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16365 Posts
You can now play some of the best RTS campaigns ever made for free on Game Pass. OH and BTW, you can still do the trick of buying the lowest tier of XBOX Game Pass Live for 1,2 or 3 years. Then buying 1 month of the ULTIMATE level and getting the highest tier for a super low price. It is hilarious that M$ went on a big marketing run stating it would no longer be possible. And, a few months later you can do it again. On September 26 2024 17:37 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: No one is living like that anymore and BW has 16 times the average and total viewership, let alone 100% community funded scene. Total donations for BW were over 8 million + about about 3 million in daily proleague in 2023. my point is that big money being in a scene does not automatically make it better. At the time of 10 guys living in 1 room the C&C scene was preferable to me. It was less serious and more fun. Personally, I don't want video game entertainment to be a part of the serious/important aspect of my life. I'm sure millions and/or billions feel the same way. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1052 Posts
There is also the fact that Tasteless is exactly right: Broodwar might be as big as SC2, but only in Korea. 95% (his numbers I think?) of its popularity is in Korea and even there you still don't have new talent. Everywhere else the game is basically dead. So if you don't plan to go to Korea, BroodWar is literally not an option to play professionally | ||
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Expensive-Law-9830
67 Posts
Source on what? https://streamscharts.com/games?search=starcraft&time=30-days about 16 times the viewership than SC2  Daily Proleagues more than 4 million in 1.5 years.https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/608209-2022balloon-donation-rankings-for-sc-korean-bj https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/609447-2023q1-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc-bjs https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjs As if this is in any way farfetched | ||
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Expensive-Law-9830
67 Posts
On September 26 2024 23:32 Balnazza wrote: Dunno how accurate "Escharts" is, I assume it isn't fully updated for SCR yet, but according to it SC2s viewership trumps Broodwar every year, though it has gotten closer. SC2 also easily dwarves SCRs prizepool by a landslide, talking 2 million vs. ~300K at best per year. And how the heck is Broodwar "100% community funded"? Yeah, escharts is shit because it doesnt include afreeca? Which is 99.9 percent of viewership? Neither does it include the daily proleague, or donations? Of course SC2 will be higher if you exclude all the viewership of BW as well as all the funding lmao. Hey, lemme just exclude all viewership from European football and all the prize pool. Therefore the Saudi league must be much bigger And it is 100 percent community funded and doesnt rely on Saudi money for 95 percent of its money. On September 26 2024 23:32 Balnazza wrote: There is also the fact that Tasteless is exactly right: Broodwar might be as big as SC2, but only in Korea. 95% (his numbers I think?) of its popularity is in Korea and even there you still don't have new talent. Everywhere else the game is basically dead. So if you don't plan to go to Korea, BroodWar is literally not an option to play professionally SC2 is dead everywhere, BW is dead everywhere except in Korea, where it is as popular as league. https://streamscharts.com/games?search=starcraft&time=30-days See these viewers and SC2 is not viable as a career anywhere. BW is at least in Korea. That is not a discussion, however you want to ignore statistics here. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1052 Posts
On September 27 2024 07:33 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: Yeah, escharts is shit because it doesnt include afreeca? Which is 99.9 percent of viewership? Neither does it include the daily proleague, or donations? Of course SC2 will be higher if you exclude all the viewership of BW as well as all the funding lmao. Hey, lemme just exclude all viewership from European football and all the prize pool. Therefore the Saudi league must be much bigger And it is 100 percent community funded and doesnt rely on Saudi money for 95 percent of its money. SC2 is dead everywhere, BW is dead everywhere except in Korea, where it is as popular as league. https://streamscharts.com/games?search=starcraft&time=30-days See these viewers and SC2 is not viable as a career anywhere. BW is at least in Korea. That is not a discussion, however you want to ignore statistics here. it's obviously not accurate for this year, but every other year looks pretty on point? If you live from donations, you are not a BW pro. You are a streamer. Which is totally fine, but it has nothing to do with the professional scene. Grubby is also living from WC3 (to a degree), still doesn't make him a competitive pro again. Okay, I'm not big in the BW scene: Afreeca/SOOP is not putting in any money for ASL/SSL? Not one penny? Community also funds the entire studio etc.? If not, it's not community-funded. Not even one bit. AoE 2 is much more community-funded than that and even there Microsoft and Redbull put in a penny... If BroodWar is as popular in Korea than LoL, the BW players get a pretty shitty deal, if you look at the prizepools...also not that helpful to compare SC2 and SC:R in the last 30 days considering SC2 is in Offseason. I don't doubt that Broodwar will have more viewers in Korea still, but over the year SC2 will clearly do much better. In the end, the fact remains: If you are not in Korea, don't bother with BW. In SC2 you might atleast get a pretty buck out of it from anywhere. Though of course, if you are 14 and decided to become a progamer...choose neither game. It will take far too long to get into it and in the end you will earn a lot more money in LoL, CS2, Valorant or whatever game comes up. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6685 Posts
On September 27 2024 07:28 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: Source on what? https://streamscharts.com/games?search=starcraft&time=30-days about 16 times the viewership than SC2 Daily Proleagues more than 4 million in 1.5 years.https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/608209-2022balloon-donation-rankings-for-sc-korean-bj https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/609447-2023q1-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc-bjs https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjs As if this is in any way farfetched Holy hell these are some impressive numbers! I had no idea You don't have to be a dick about it btw | ||
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MJG
United Kingdom792 Posts
On September 27 2024 07:28 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: Source on what? https://streamscharts.com/games?search=starcraft&time=30-days about 16 times the viewership than SC2 Daily Proleagues more than 4 million in 1.5 years.https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/608209-2022balloon-donation-rankings-for-sc-korean-bj https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/609447-2023q1-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc-bjs https://tl.net/forum/brood-war/616880-2023q3-top100-balloon-donation-for-all-sc1-and-2-bjs As if this is in any way farfetched The person you originally responded to didn't mention SC2, so it actually seemed to me like you were comparing Proleague-era BW with current BW. Thanks for the clarification. | ||
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Expensive-Law-9830
67 Posts
On September 27 2024 08:35 Balnazza wrote: it's obviously not accurate for this year, but every other year looks pretty on point? If you live from donations, you are not a BW pro. You are a streamer. Which is totally fine, but it has nothing to do with the professional scene. Grubby is also living from WC3 (to a degree), still doesn't make him a competitive pro again. Okay, I'm not big in the BW scene: Afreeca/SOOP is not putting in any money for ASL/SSL? Not one penny? Community also funds the entire studio etc.? If not, it's not community-funded. Not even one bit. AoE 2 is much more community-funded than that and even there Microsoft and Redbull put in a penny... If BroodWar is as popular in Korea than LoL, the BW players get a pretty shitty deal, if you look at the prizepools...also not that helpful to compare SC2 and SC:R in the last 30 days considering SC2 is in Offseason. I don't doubt that Broodwar will have more viewers in Korea still, but over the year SC2 will clearly do much better. In the end, the fact remains: If you are not in Korea, don't bother with BW. In SC2 you might atleast get a pretty buck out of it from anywhere. Though of course, if you are 14 and decided to become a progamer...choose neither game. It will take far too long to get into it and in the end you will earn a lot more money in LoL, CS2, Valorant or whatever game comes up. Maybe you should stop yapping and embarass yourself even further User was warned for this post | ||
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Comedy
451 Posts
On September 27 2024 17:16 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: Maybe you should stop yapping and embarass yourself even further Agreed. This dude takes being clueless to a new level. User was warned for this post | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16365 Posts
On September 27 2024 07:33 Expensive-Law-9830 wrote: SC2 is dead everywhere, BW is dead everywhere except in Korea, where it is as popular as league. https://streamscharts.com/games?search=starcraft&time=30-days See these viewers and SC2 is not viable as a career anywhere. BW is at least in Korea. That is not a discussion, however you want to ignore statistics here. Competitive video game scenes last for decades without the players basing their professional careers on the games. This form of competition is more in the spirit of what a competitive video game is/was for the entire audience. The Olympics used to be all amateurs because amateur competition captured the true spirit of the games. | ||
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