EPTHow important is it for StarCraft II to get a new balance…
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TL.net Bot
TL.net130 Posts
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
IMHO, the biggest issues are: 1) Cannon Rush - Maybe say cannons can only be built near Forge or Nexus. 2) Void Ray + proxy Battery - Maybe batteries can only be built near Cyber Core or Nexus 3) Protoss ground is too weak in PvZ. There is no way to fight Lurker/Brood with Protoss ground. I have no idea how to fix this. Maybe add a Stalker range upgrade so they can stay relevant in the late game. 4) Protoss air has been buffed to the point where Zerg can 100% prepare for it and still die. Obvious fix would be nerfing Void Ray in one way or another but maybe adjust Phoenix such that Mutas are viable again. | ||
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BonitiilloO
Dominican Republic614 Posts
look at bw. | ||
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SirKibbleX
United States479 Posts
Terrans especially, I think, are pretty sick of the m/u and all the different very strong cheeses Protoss can use. There is additionally a perception, whether well-founded or not, in the Terran community that Protoss mid- and late-game is easier, demands significantly less multitask and APM to achieve successful outcomes, and therefore should be avoided. As a result, the Terran meta has converged on aggressive play and all-ins in the mid-game as a response to Protoss's perceived lategame power. It 'feels' like Terran doesn't have many options on how to play, and it is very difficult and mentally stressful to play the proscribed style that is perceived as being 'most consistently' able to defeat Protoss. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Then you have all those EU terran complaining about protoss, but what would they change? And Protoss barely wins any tournaments as is, so is it really necessary? I feel a lot of it is in perceptions. Protoss feels unfair, but it isn't, and imo, its' in fact kind of bad. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
I'd like more map rotation though. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
It's really dumb. I'd say a patch is pretty critical for at least my continued interest in the game. Protoss is a bit of a joke right now. For the top 20 players I think the game is balanced, for everyone else Protoss is just more winning for the same amount of effort / mistakes. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24193 Posts
On September 08 2021 03:07 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: We are seeing proxy voidray battery build number god-knows-how-many right now in sOs vs Heromarine. It's really dumb. I'd say a patch is pretty critical for at least my continued interest in the game. Protoss is a bit of a joke right now. For the top 20 players I think the game is balanced, for everyone else Protoss is just more winning for the same amount of effort / mistakes. more or less my stance. So yeah, extremely important imo | ||
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darklycid
3460 Posts
On September 08 2021 03:07 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: We are seeing proxy voidray battery build number god-knows-how-many right now in sOs vs Heromarine. It's really dumb. I'd say a patch is pretty critical for at least my continued interest in the game. Protoss is a bit of a joke right now. For the top 20 players I think the game is balanced, for everyone else Protoss is just more winning for the same amount of effort / mistakes. While there are definitely some strategies that lead to toss having the advantage in 6k and below (2sg void comes to mind) i think it's kinda unfair to put it onto general protoss strength, needs probably some delicate changes that i sadly don't see coming. | ||
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TheWildShooter
79 Posts
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Vision_
861 Posts
On September 08 2021 02:37 [Phantom] wrote: I think it's important, but I don't think it will happen. It's not as easy to just balance patch something as you need to analyze a lot of data to try to be as impartial as possible. So while changing stats is easy, making that analysis is not. A lot of people are saying things like nerf the VR or something, but the VR sucked before it's buff and PvZ was in an awful spot. It's still awful in a variety of ways for both races, but changing the VR would make it worse. Not easy ? If i was paid to give back the old school style to SC2, i won t be afraid at all about my chance of failure. | ||
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Poopi
France12792 Posts
On September 08 2021 02:37 [Phantom] wrote: I think it's important, but I don't think it will happen. It's not as easy to just balance patch something as you need to analyze a lot of data to try to be as impartial as possible. So while changing stats is easy, making that analysis is not. A lot of people are saying things like nerf the VR or something, but the VR sucked before it's buff and PvZ was in an awful spot. It's still awful in a variety of ways for both races, but changing the VR would make it worse. Then you have all those EU terran complaining about protoss, but what would they change? And Protoss barely wins any tournaments as is, so is it really necessary? I feel a lot of it is in perceptions. Protoss feels unfair, but it isn't, and imo, its' in fact kind of bad. How can it be that bad since they won the most money in 2021? They should make the VR rush less strong in PvT without making PvZ too imbalanced, but on the other hand the PvZ meta seems pretty horrible as well. I think terrans would be less angry about TvP mid game / late game if the early game was ok / no more proxy void ray as strong etc? Since it could allow some other options | ||
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Vision_
861 Posts
On September 08 2021 02:37 [Phantom] wrote: I think it's important, but I don't think it will happen. It's not as easy to just balance patch something as you need to analyze a lot of data to try to be as impartial as possible. So while changing stats is easy, making that analysis is not. A lot of people are saying things like nerf the VR or something, but the VR sucked before it's buff and PvZ was in an awful spot. It's still awful in a variety of ways for both races, but changing the VR would make it worse. Not easy ? If i was paid to give back the old school style to SC2, i won t be afraid at all about my chance of failure. There is a mod/tool dedicated to create balance (i don t remember what s the name), there s nothing new under the sun, pros players advice would be precious, the main objective would be to avoid difference in result between someone with 150 and someone with 300 APM. The most important thing that you have to do is to make the ground more impactfull on the game. Sight of view in fog of war more present, ground vegetation add specific bonus.. etc... or ground which slow some units. It s not so hard. This game has been done for Professionnal Esport, not for a large community. Blizzard has used the pro scene as a rocket space. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
Changes feel small enough but have potential to help shift the meta, which is all I really want both as a spectator and a player. | ||
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meadbert
United States681 Posts
On September 08 2021 05:50 Ctone23 wrote:
Changes feel small enough but have potential to help shift the meta, which is all I really want both as a spectator and a player. I like the second two. The problem with the battery nerf is that Protoss actually needs defensive batteries to not die. The problem is offensive batteries which is I would prefer a rule that impacts just the offensive use of batteries. I suggested forcing them to be made close to Nexus or Cyber Core. A softer alternative would be a rule that they warp in extra slowly if not near a core or Nexus. Proxy battery anything is horrendous and totally against the intent of the battery, but batteries are really needed if we want to avoid Protoss going back to just 2 base all ins ever game. | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On September 08 2021 06:02 meadbert wrote: I like the second two. The problem with the battery nerf is that Protoss actually needs defensive batteries to not die. The problem is offensive batteries which is I would prefer a rule that impacts just the offensive use of batteries. I suggested forcing them to be made close to Nexus or Cyber Core. A softer alternative would be a rule that they warp in extra slowly if not near a core or Nexus. Proxy battery anything is horrendous and totally against the intent of the battery, but batteries are really needed if we want to avoid Protoss going back to just 2 base all ins ever game. Slower warp in if not near a nexus is an interesting thought. I figure an energy reduction would not affect the battery overcharge ability so the defensive use would still be strong, but maybe not. | ||
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nesmah
France26 Posts
In my opinion, it's really important to have a balance patch rapidly. This is so boring to watch in every tournament proxy void + battery, and it's also very frustrating to see how this strategy is ridiculously simple to execute and how hard it is to hold. Also, in TvP i don't think a protoss that take a third at 3'30 (or less) with only one unit and batteries, and cannot be punish by the terran is legit. A good nerf should be that battery could only be build in a range of a nexus and increase the cost of batteries by +50 or +75. | ||
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freelifeffs
97 Posts
now go ahead and flame me. i probably deserve it lol | ||
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On September 08 2021 06:23 freelifeffs wrote: this is gonna be an unpopular opinion but zerg suffers. zerg is just getting rekt unless its serral, reynor, dark or rogue. pick any random spot in gm or even master if you want and chances are very high that this guy has by far the best winrate against zerg. just humor yourself and try it. it took me 11 random profile openings until i found someone for whom it wasnt the case. doesnt matter if terran or protoss btw. last time i checked rankedftw (why is it down btw?) zerg percentage in gm and master was around 20%. dont think any race has ever been this low. pretty much every tournament zerg gets rekt before the ro8. so yes i believe we need a balance patch. not only because of balance because sure, the top zergs are still winning stuff sometimes, but more because of fun. playing sc2 is not fun atm when you are zerg. its a miserable experience. legit miserable. i was consistently at 5400k mmr for the past 3 years. since that patch some seasons ago i struggle to reach 4900. its painful. now go ahead and flame me. i probably deserve it lol zvt is really hard on this map pool/patch, overall its a good matchup but very hard. zvp protoss players are basically playing single player at this point, they don't have to scout/worry about much except queen walks, and if you're not a top player its very hard to not just get rolled over by air units. It honestly looks pathetic when someone tries an early game all in on a protoss, how easy it is to hold it. playing zerg is absolute misery you're 100% right, there won't be many z players left if they don't patch something | ||
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