pretty sure this means Blizzard knows that most of the foreigners still can't take 20 Korean pros equally. Only except someone like Serral, Reynor, Clem, ShoWTimE, Neeb, HeRoMaRinE, TIME.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
Since they're essentially glorified qualifiers for Code S now, the Super Tournaments could be stripped of their EPT points entirely. That leaves every region with their regional competition and the offline season finals for points (and if we're lucky, bonus content like TSL). Lack of smaller point gains from ST could incentivize players to participate in ESL open cups more frequently as well.
Either way I don't see a need to make GSL more open to non-Koreans because of the end of region lock.
But that would leave Korea with 7 major tournaments to collect EPT points and EU/NA with 4, no? Aside from the weekly and any bonus tourneys?
Well EU and NA should get significant amounts of points from their regional events. So Korea has 3 Code S, EU has 3 Dreamhack EU, NA has 3 Dreamhack NA, etc. to get points in and all of them have the 4 season finals.
Yeah, that would work perfectly well actually, when the amount of points are the same. Now, all we have to do is to get rid of the automatic seeds into the global final for the winners and we'd have a point-based system all the way.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
Why are people acting like foreigners can't play in GSL? I mean with COVID travel restrictions that's true but there's a very real chance that by the time of the first GSL next year the travel restrictions will be more relaxed. Before COVID tons of foreigners played in GSL every year. They can even still participate in their regional events since they are online. Depending on what group of GSL they are in (if they even qualify) they can even go back home either between the qualifiers and their first group or between their first group and the ro16. Since there's typically around a month between one of those things. Then they can make the decision to stay or not based on whether they advance each round. It's not this impossible thing a lot of the foreigner biased fans in this thread are arguing.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Love this! Great to upgrade the status of the season finals. And Katowice 2022 stays at $500k, wow.
Nice to see they want to abolish region lock, but I mean we have no idea how it would actually work out right? Would the regional tourneys still be there and then just not function as qualifiers? And how would the points system be?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
basically it's 8 direct spots for koreans, 8 for foreigners and 4 global spots with the 3 season finals and last stand technically the only spots which could be "stolen" from another region are the korean ones, in case special wins GSL
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
On December 16 2020 02:17 Waxangel wrote: I think it's funny that ESL accidentally fell into having no anti-Korean region-lock this year, and none of the Korean elitists really noticed .
Instead, we basically had a system with a FULL region lock in 2020, with players being protected inside of the six EPT regions + GSL. Ironically, it was only third party tournament TSL that voluntarily kept the old, anti-Korean region-lock in place with its separated qualifiers.
Realistically speaking, we're not going to see the effect of a true, open-region EPT until 2022, when they shift the focus of tournaments away from EPT regionals and back to live DreamHack Open events. 2021 Is only going to have one such event (it seems), and even that may not happen at all if COVID continues to be a global issue.
TSL's "anti-korean" region lock wasn't really that bad since non koreans couldn't participate in both koreans and non korean qualifiers; instead of many regionals, there basically were korean qualifiers as opposed to World minus Korea qualifiers; in TSL 6 especially, the number of spots reserved to koreans seemed to be adequate. If every region is locked, and COVID locked Korea, it's all fair.
When the regional system will be abandoned in 2022(hopefully) and there will be no region lock at all, GSL or any korean competition that would replace it should be severely changed in structure to make it just as accessible to anyone as every DH tournament outside of Korea.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
Since they're essentially glorified qualifiers for Code S now, the Super Tournaments could be stripped of their EPT points entirely. That leaves every region with their regional competition and the offline season finals for points (and if we're lucky, bonus content like TSL). Lack of smaller point gains from ST could incentivize players to participate in ESL open cups more frequently as well.
Either way I don't see a need to make GSL more open to non-Koreans because of the end of region lock.
But that would leave Korea with 7 major tournaments to collect EPT points and EU/NA with 4, no? Aside from the weekly and any bonus tourneys?
Well EU and NA should get significant amounts of points from their regional events. So Korea has 3 Code S, EU has 3 Dreamhack EU, NA has 3 Dreamhack NA, etc. to get points in and all of them have the 4 season finals.
Yeah, that would work perfectly well actually, when the amount of points are the same. Now, all we have to do is to get rid of the automatic seeds into the global final for the winners and we'd have a point-based system all the way.
Removing EPT points from Super Tournaments would be nice; however, EPT points given by neutral or third party events should be neutral and not added to EPT Korea directly like it was in 2020/2021 since those would be essentially wasted for every player who doesn't compete in GSL.
On December 16 2020 02:27 Charoisaur wrote: seems like Serral time is over
This shouldn't deserve an answer but I'm fascinated by your logic. After Serral actually started winning, his least successful year has been the one in which tournaments have been played online, now global events are going to be offline again and he should suffer? Or maybe you want to tell me that a guy who has beaten koreans multiple times on LAN and twice in Korea should be worried when region lock is removed?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Any foreigner that truly wants to play in GSL can do so (when COVID dies down). If they don't want to live there they can treat it as a series of business trips. Any top foreigner will easily be able to get the trip covered by their team or fans. Even if they can't get support from teams and fans for their travel costs just making it into GSL should cover most of their expenses. There are lots of people with jobs that require them to travel somewhere for a single weekend before going back home. This is no different. That is far less of a region lock than the ESL regional events have.
On December 16 2020 03:23 daruka2073 wrote: pretty sure this means Blizzard knows that most of the foreigners still can't take 20 Korean pros equally. Only except someone like Serral, Reynor, Clem, ShoWTimE, Neeb, HeRoMaRinE, TIME.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
It says DH -> 3 slots, GSL 3 slots, DH last chance 1 slot. It says nowhere that foreign regionals will earn a slot. So koreans can easily compete for 7 direct qualifiers, and foreigners easily only for 4. Isn't that correct?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
It says DH -> 3 slots, GSL 3 slots, DH last chance 1 slot. It says nowhere that foreign regionals will earn a slot. So koreans can easily compete for 7 direct qualifiers, and foreigners easily only for 4. Isn't that correct?
That is correct. And fair, due to the points already highlighted, see no point in repeating myself. What I had a problem with is that you tried to swell the discussion into "its advantageaus for koreans" waters by using unrelated incorrect arguments to support your point. (foreigners cant compete in GSL)
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
It says DH -> 3 slots, GSL 3 slots, DH last chance 1 slot. It says nowhere that foreign regionals will earn a slot. So koreans can easily compete for 7 direct qualifiers, and foreigners easily only for 4. Isn't that correct?
That is correct. And fair, due to the points already highlighted, see no point in repeating myself. What I had a problem with is that you tried to swell the discussion into "its advantageaus for koreans" waters by using unrelated incorrect arguments to support your point. (foreigners cant compete in GSL)
lol ok. I agree 100% with you one point: there is no need for you to repeat yourself.
Will add this feedback in the survey when time comes: I feel like "Last Chance" should be renamed for "Final Edition" or something along those lines, though. It is a bit confusing to see Serral, Reynor and Clem still fight for "spots" in Last Chance. But I understand for more $$$ and higher seeding. It's just not what I imagined when I saw the announcement several weeks ago about Last Chance.
On December 16 2020 02:17 Waxangel wrote: I think it's funny that ESL accidentally fell into having no anti-Korean region-lock this year, and none of the Korean elitists really noticed .
Instead, we basically had a system with a FULL region lock in 2020, with players being protected inside of the six EPT regions + GSL. Ironically, it was only third party tournament TSL that voluntarily kept the old, anti-Korean region-lock in place with its separated qualifiers.
Realistically speaking, we're not going to see the effect of a true, open-region EPT until 2022, when they shift the focus of tournaments away from EPT regionals and back to live DreamHack Open events. 2021 Is only going to have one such event (it seems), and even that may not happen at all if COVID continues to be a global issue.
TSL's "anti-korean" region lock wasn't really that bad since non koreans couldn't participate in both koreans and non korean qualifiers; instead of many regionals, there basically were korean qualifiers as opposed to World minus Korea qualifiers; in TSL 6 especially, the number of spots reserved to koreans seemed to be adequate. If every region is locked, and COVID locked Korea, it's all fair.
Ah whoops, good point about TSL6, I was thinking about it wrong. Cheers to 2020, then, the almost fully region locked year
I'll refrain from engaging in any suspicious-faith arguments about how the GSL should be
On December 16 2020 02:27 Charoisaur wrote: seems like Serral time is over
See? It IS always the haters and korena elitist who bring him up in every and all threads not even remotely connected. Thank you for making a fine point here Charo. There are still some BW threads you can mention how bad Serral is I believe
EPT
Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks. 
.
