ESL and DreamHack have today announced their plans for the second year of the ESL Pro Tour for StarCraft II. The Covid-19 pandemic forced changes upon the EPT mid-circuit in 2020 and, as the pandemic is still very much ongoing, it comes to little surprise that the current system of regional divisions culminating in Season Finals is maintained.
There are, however, significant changes to the organization of this system, including plans for the Season Finals of each season to be held offline in a studio — albeit without audiences, as it stands — and the removal of the ever-controversial region-lock ruling for Season Finals, the rule that previously prevented South Korean players from entering most international competitions.
With Season Finals returning to offline competition, their status in the EPT Tour is boosted in the 2021/22 season. The three Season Finals winners now qualify directly for the Ro24 of IEM Katowice.
Schedule & Points
The schedule for these five events looks like this:
DreamHack SC2 Masters: Summer 2021 — $170,000
Qualifiers: May 11-16
Regionals: May 19 - June 6
Season Finals: July 1-4
DreamHack SC2 Masters: Fall 2021 — $170,000
Qualifiers: July 20 - 25
Regionals: July 28 - August 15
Season Finals: September 9 - 12
DreamHack SC2 Masters: Winter 2021 — $170,000
Qualifiers: September 21 - 26
Regionals: September 29 - October 17
Season Finals: November 11-14
DreamHack SC2 Masters: Last Chance 2022 — $40,000
Qualifiers: December 14 - 19
Finals: January 11-16, 2022
EPT Championship: IEM Katowice 2022 — $500,000
February/March, 2022
The complete distribution of prize money and EPT points allocation is available on ESL's website. Perhaps the most significant change is that points awarded for Season Finals have increased massively: from a total of 1,370 EPT points per event to 4110. This increase, we were told, is due to Season Finals being planned as offline events in 2021. ESL and DreamHack were hesitant to put too many EPT points on Season Finals in 2020 due to concerns over cross-server issues. Further changes see prize pools reduced slightly, as well as EPT points being slightly reduced for the "weaker" regional divisions.
Season Finals to revert to Open Bracket events if Covid-19 allows
ESL & DreamHack have also formulated alternative plans, the realization of which depends on the development of the ongoing pandemic:
If COVID-19 remains a barrier, we will be required to revert these competitions back to global online tournaments the same we saw in 2020. If we feel more positive through 2021, our hope is that we will be able to take one of these back to a DreamHack festival. In that case, the tournament formatting would adjust to our familiar format from festivals of recent years with an 80 player tournament. The 16 players who would have previously qualified for the online/studio finals would now be deep seeded into Group Stage 3, skipping the first few rounds of the competition.
It was also confirmed to us that if Season Finals events had to be scaled back to online competition, points distribution would be reverted as well. Whether Katowice 2022 seeding would also change has not yet been decided.
ESL Open Cups continue unchanged, but will stop awarding EPT points for a while after the January 11 cups, due to the 2020/21 season concluding around that time. Points will be awarded again starting April 5th and will count towards the new season.
The Partial Demise of Region-Lock
While the rules for regional divisions remain unchanged, qualified experts previously pointed out that region-lock had, on paper, already been removed, but the residency or passport requirements still effectively prevented most players from switching regions.
These requirements do not change for the 2021/22 season, so regional divisions will still effectively be "region-locked". But where region-locked will fully be removed is with Season Finals reverting to Open Bracket competition as soon as the pandemic allows. Since the introduction of separated regions in WCS 2016, South Korean players have been unable to attend DreamHack Open and IEM events unless they were classed as "Global Events". This rule change opens up the Open Bracket stages of these international events — now Season Finals — to them.
Shaun "Apollo" Clark had previously stated that ESL and DreamHack felt "that StarCraft II is definitely in a position where a conversation about region-lock should be held. Our agreement and partnership with Blizzard was only completed recently, so it would have been a lot to ask for us to readjust and make any drastic changes to the existing system in such a short time. That means for the first season it will stay the same, but we are going to have an honest discussion about it for later seasons", and that he did not feel as if "the same fears of Koreans flooding tournaments and winning everything are still as relevant".
However, as the Covid-19 pandemic is still ongoing, it is unsure yet whether and when these Season Finals can be held at DreamHack festivals again. This means that due to the pandemic, it may be a while before the removal of region-lock actually leads to South Korean players participating freely in international events again. We were told that DreamHack had hoped to be able to hold Open Bracket competitions throughout the whole 2021/22 season but had to alter its plans due to the pandemic.
Changes to Seeding for Katowice 2022
With Season Finals, including the Last Chance event, reverting to offline play, seeding into the EPT Championship event in Katowice has been adjusted to reward offline performance. Where previously Season Finals only added to the EPT points, the four Masters winners now receive direct seeds into the Ro24 along with the three GSL champions. Thirteen more players are seeded into the Ro24 according to their EPT ranking, with twelve more qualifying for the Ro36 play-in stage this way.
removal of region lock which will see South Korean players able to compete on a regular basis in international SC2 tournaments since 2016
Similar to 2020, there will be reserved slots for South Korean players to compete in each of the respective tournaments. Another change we are happy to announce is that upon the return of DreamHack festivals South Korean players will be able to sign-up, travel & compete within the open bracket of these offline tournaments.
...so are there going to be EPT points only, or will there be region specific points next season too? It seems that Koreans have at least 3 tourneys where they can gather EPT points fairly undisturbed from EU/NA competition (GSLs + any GSL Super tournaments that may be added).
It would be good if the overall EPT standings were easier to understand next season.
On December 16 2020 00:18 BaneRiders wrote: ...so are there going to be EPT points only, or will there be region specific points next season too? It seems that Koreans have at least 3 tourneys where they can gather EPT points fairly undisturbed from EU/NA competition (GSLs + any GSL Super tournaments that may be added).
It would be good if the overall EPT standings were easier to understand next season.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
Since they're essentially glorified qualifiers for Code S now, the Super Tournaments could be stripped of their EPT points entirely. That leaves every region with their regional competition and the offline season finals for points (and if we're lucky, bonus content like TSL). Lack of smaller point gains from ST could incentivize players to participate in ESL open cups more frequently as well.
Either way I don't see a need to make GSL more open to non-Koreans because of the end of region lock.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
Since they're essentially glorified qualifiers for Code S now, the Super Tournaments could be stripped of their EPT points entirely. That leaves every region with their regional competition and the offline season finals for points (and if we're lucky, bonus content like TSL). Lack of smaller point gains from ST could incentivize players to participate in ESL open cups more frequently as well.
Either way I don't see a need to make GSL more open to non-Koreans because of the end of region lock.
But that would leave Korea with 7 major tournaments to collect EPT points and EU/NA with 4, no? Aside from the weekly and any bonus tourneys?
Each region has its separate quota, there's no need to worry about different regions having different amount of tournaments to earn different amount of points.
P.S. It was only a problem this season due to the cancellation of the 2nd global event.
On December 16 2020 01:40 FCHK wrote: Each region has its separate quota, there's no need to worry about different regions having different amount of tournaments to earn different amount of points.
P.S. It was only a problem this season due to the cancellation of the 2nd global event.
That each region has its own quota is true, but it seems that Koreans have the chance to increase its number of participants in the global final in a way that is not particularly fair, hence there is still a need to worry about having different amount of tourneys in different regions the end..
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
Since they're essentially glorified qualifiers for Code S now, the Super Tournaments could be stripped of their EPT points entirely. That leaves every region with their regional competition and the offline season finals for points (and if we're lucky, bonus content like TSL). Lack of smaller point gains from ST could incentivize players to participate in ESL open cups more frequently as well.
Either way I don't see a need to make GSL more open to non-Koreans because of the end of region lock.
But that would leave Korea with 7 major tournaments to collect EPT points and EU/NA with 4, no? Aside from the weekly and any bonus tourneys?
Well EU and NA should get significant amounts of points from their regional events. So Korea has 3 Code S, EU has 3 Dreamhack EU, NA has 3 Dreamhack NA, etc. to get points in and all of them have the 4 season finals.
I think it's funny that ESL accidentally fell into having no anti-Korean region-lock this year, and none of the Korean elitists really noticed .
Instead, we basically had a system with a FULL region lock in 2020, with players being protected inside of the six EPT regions + GSL. Ironically, it was only third party tournament TSL that voluntarily kept the old, anti-Korean region-lock in place with its separated qualifiers.
Realistically speaking, we're not going to see the effect of a true, open-region EPT until 2022, when they shift the focus of tournaments away from EPT regionals and back to live DreamHack Open events. 2021 Is only going to have one such event (it seems), and even that may not happen at all if COVID continues to be a global issue.
I'm happy about region-locking being further reduced. What I'm not happy with, and has been maybe the central reason for declining levels of new pros, is the continuation of absurdly top heavy prize distributions for tournaments. I wish I could be the one to determine the distribution haha. For Katowice 2021 it would go as follows:
This lends itself to a much healthier scene. First place prize should not be 485 times more than 33-36, that is absurd. Even 35 times more in my distribution is a lot, but much more reasonable. Looking over it a second time, I think the distribution could be tightened even more. And this same idea should be implemented in all tournaments/regions.
Thank you ESL! Another Year of Starcraft II And we dont even have to wait for information till the end of the season. Isn't it great? Also hope HSC can give EPT points this time.
pretty sure this means Blizzard knows that most of the foreigners still can't take 20 Korean pros equally. Only except someone like Serral, Reynor, Clem, ShoWTimE, Neeb, HeRoMaRinE, TIME.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
Since they're essentially glorified qualifiers for Code S now, the Super Tournaments could be stripped of their EPT points entirely. That leaves every region with their regional competition and the offline season finals for points (and if we're lucky, bonus content like TSL). Lack of smaller point gains from ST could incentivize players to participate in ESL open cups more frequently as well.
Either way I don't see a need to make GSL more open to non-Koreans because of the end of region lock.
But that would leave Korea with 7 major tournaments to collect EPT points and EU/NA with 4, no? Aside from the weekly and any bonus tourneys?
Well EU and NA should get significant amounts of points from their regional events. So Korea has 3 Code S, EU has 3 Dreamhack EU, NA has 3 Dreamhack NA, etc. to get points in and all of them have the 4 season finals.
Yeah, that would work perfectly well actually, when the amount of points are the same. Now, all we have to do is to get rid of the automatic seeds into the global final for the winners and we'd have a point-based system all the way.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
Why are people acting like foreigners can't play in GSL? I mean with COVID travel restrictions that's true but there's a very real chance that by the time of the first GSL next year the travel restrictions will be more relaxed. Before COVID tons of foreigners played in GSL every year. They can even still participate in their regional events since they are online. Depending on what group of GSL they are in (if they even qualify) they can even go back home either between the qualifiers and their first group or between their first group and the ro16. Since there's typically around a month between one of those things. Then they can make the decision to stay or not based on whether they advance each round. It's not this impossible thing a lot of the foreigner biased fans in this thread are arguing.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Love this! Great to upgrade the status of the season finals. And Katowice 2022 stays at $500k, wow.
Nice to see they want to abolish region lock, but I mean we have no idea how it would actually work out right? Would the regional tourneys still be there and then just not function as qualifiers? And how would the points system be?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
basically it's 8 direct spots for koreans, 8 for foreigners and 4 global spots with the 3 season finals and last stand technically the only spots which could be "stolen" from another region are the korean ones, in case special wins GSL
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
On December 16 2020 02:17 Waxangel wrote: I think it's funny that ESL accidentally fell into having no anti-Korean region-lock this year, and none of the Korean elitists really noticed .
Instead, we basically had a system with a FULL region lock in 2020, with players being protected inside of the six EPT regions + GSL. Ironically, it was only third party tournament TSL that voluntarily kept the old, anti-Korean region-lock in place with its separated qualifiers.
Realistically speaking, we're not going to see the effect of a true, open-region EPT until 2022, when they shift the focus of tournaments away from EPT regionals and back to live DreamHack Open events. 2021 Is only going to have one such event (it seems), and even that may not happen at all if COVID continues to be a global issue.
TSL's "anti-korean" region lock wasn't really that bad since non koreans couldn't participate in both koreans and non korean qualifiers; instead of many regionals, there basically were korean qualifiers as opposed to World minus Korea qualifiers; in TSL 6 especially, the number of spots reserved to koreans seemed to be adequate. If every region is locked, and COVID locked Korea, it's all fair.
When the regional system will be abandoned in 2022(hopefully) and there will be no region lock at all, GSL or any korean competition that would replace it should be severely changed in structure to make it just as accessible to anyone as every DH tournament outside of Korea.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Each season, there is a regional competition plus a global final, let's assume Code S is the korean one and everything is fine; however, GSL has three more competitions in Super Tournaments, which should be easier to play in as a foreign player.
The trick here is that EPT Korea points are ideally accessible to anyone but, in reality, you have to reside in Korea to play korean tournaments; since the spots to the Global Finals are allocated separatedly for each region, I don't see why the points for global tournaments count towards EPT Korea only. They should count for the standings of the region in which the players who won them play. If this was the situation, playing Super Tournaments not being a korean wouldn't realistically net you valuable EPT points; otherwise, Super Tournaments should provide global EPT points but this doesn't seem a viable option now that ST grants the only direct spots for the following Code S seasons.
Since they're essentially glorified qualifiers for Code S now, the Super Tournaments could be stripped of their EPT points entirely. That leaves every region with their regional competition and the offline season finals for points (and if we're lucky, bonus content like TSL). Lack of smaller point gains from ST could incentivize players to participate in ESL open cups more frequently as well.
Either way I don't see a need to make GSL more open to non-Koreans because of the end of region lock.
But that would leave Korea with 7 major tournaments to collect EPT points and EU/NA with 4, no? Aside from the weekly and any bonus tourneys?
Well EU and NA should get significant amounts of points from their regional events. So Korea has 3 Code S, EU has 3 Dreamhack EU, NA has 3 Dreamhack NA, etc. to get points in and all of them have the 4 season finals.
Yeah, that would work perfectly well actually, when the amount of points are the same. Now, all we have to do is to get rid of the automatic seeds into the global final for the winners and we'd have a point-based system all the way.
Removing EPT points from Super Tournaments would be nice; however, EPT points given by neutral or third party events should be neutral and not added to EPT Korea directly like it was in 2020/2021 since those would be essentially wasted for every player who doesn't compete in GSL.
On December 16 2020 02:27 Charoisaur wrote: seems like Serral time is over
This shouldn't deserve an answer but I'm fascinated by your logic. After Serral actually started winning, his least successful year has been the one in which tournaments have been played online, now global events are going to be offline again and he should suffer? Or maybe you want to tell me that a guy who has beaten koreans multiple times on LAN and twice in Korea should be worried when region lock is removed?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Any foreigner that truly wants to play in GSL can do so (when COVID dies down). If they don't want to live there they can treat it as a series of business trips. Any top foreigner will easily be able to get the trip covered by their team or fans. Even if they can't get support from teams and fans for their travel costs just making it into GSL should cover most of their expenses. There are lots of people with jobs that require them to travel somewhere for a single weekend before going back home. This is no different. That is far less of a region lock than the ESL regional events have.
On December 16 2020 03:23 daruka2073 wrote: pretty sure this means Blizzard knows that most of the foreigners still can't take 20 Korean pros equally. Only except someone like Serral, Reynor, Clem, ShoWTimE, Neeb, HeRoMaRinE, TIME.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
It says DH -> 3 slots, GSL 3 slots, DH last chance 1 slot. It says nowhere that foreign regionals will earn a slot. So koreans can easily compete for 7 direct qualifiers, and foreigners easily only for 4. Isn't that correct?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
It says DH -> 3 slots, GSL 3 slots, DH last chance 1 slot. It says nowhere that foreign regionals will earn a slot. So koreans can easily compete for 7 direct qualifiers, and foreigners easily only for 4. Isn't that correct?
That is correct. And fair, due to the points already highlighted, see no point in repeating myself. What I had a problem with is that you tried to swell the discussion into "its advantageaus for koreans" waters by using unrelated incorrect arguments to support your point. (foreigners cant compete in GSL)
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
Well, you make it sound like mission impossible. You're a smart guy and if you can't figure our a solution, I wonder who can.
But then, as a matter of principle, if foreigners cannot enter GSLs due to Corona and other difficulties due to the format, the GSLs should not be awarded EPT points on a global ranking. Or we have two sets of EPT points again, which at least I don't think is a good solution.
i don't see the problem. from what they said, spots will clearly still be regional like in 2020
Yeah you are right. I was hoping we'd have one point system, but with regional allocations the points seem to be only important on a regional level, not a global. The problem is rather with the direct seeds to the global final that players from EU/NA cannot compete for in the GSLs, although Koreans can compete for the direct seeds in GSL as well as DH (if I understand it correctly).
1) GSL is open for anyone to participate so your statement that foreigners cant compete for the points and direct seeds in GSL is a lie
2) On the other hand the regional foreigner tournaments require regional passports so it actually the complete opposite of what you are claiming. Koreans are region locked from foreign regional but foreigners are not and were never region locked from GSL (which is basically korean regional)
3) Its only natural that GSL, the highest level of competition in the world gives direct seeds. It should even have a lot more funding and award more points to be completely fair because the skill disparity between EU/AMER regional and GSL is still huge, but well... Its also understandable that ESL pro tour would be a bit foreigner biased and would focus their funding on foreign regionals since GSL is funded by other means as well
Liar liar pants on fire!
I didn't say foreigners were banned from participating in GSL, I said they can't - based on previous experience. Of course, several foreigners have stayed in KR for months and participated in GSL, but foreigners have never had the chance to participate through online qualifiers or over a weekend in a similar manner as the DHs have been played out. Fair enough?
...and yes, let's give the money for free to those players that you like and feel deserve it, because that is only fair and natural. Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks.
Its not really fair enough. You are comparing apples with oranges. GSL = Foreign regionals. Both served as qualifiers to Global finals. And only 1 of them was region locked. From the new season, nothing changes. Foreign regionals still require regional passport = region lock. Whereas anyone can play GSL, they just need to travel there, but its still an advantage for foreigners here.
The advantage for Koreans is that GSL awards spots for Katowice, as it should be, its the top competition. Its like champions league compared to Europa league, the skill and prestige difference is enormous. Despite that, foreigners are given another advantage with increased prize pool (might be even bigger prize pool for foreign regionals combined than for GSL not sure but GSL does not get any additional funding from ESL, right?). So foreigners get the money, koreans get the spots. I would say its even here, which is good for foreigners considering GSL is next level.
All in all, its more fair than before with the global finals changes and focus on offline play, but foreigners still have a few advantages. Your arguments are trying to point to the contrary, which is simply false, no matter if you use a term cant or banned, or another one.
It says DH -> 3 slots, GSL 3 slots, DH last chance 1 slot. It says nowhere that foreign regionals will earn a slot. So koreans can easily compete for 7 direct qualifiers, and foreigners easily only for 4. Isn't that correct?
That is correct. And fair, due to the points already highlighted, see no point in repeating myself. What I had a problem with is that you tried to swell the discussion into "its advantageaus for koreans" waters by using unrelated incorrect arguments to support your point. (foreigners cant compete in GSL)
lol ok. I agree 100% with you one point: there is no need for you to repeat yourself.
Will add this feedback in the survey when time comes: I feel like "Last Chance" should be renamed for "Final Edition" or something along those lines, though. It is a bit confusing to see Serral, Reynor and Clem still fight for "spots" in Last Chance. But I understand for more $$$ and higher seeding. It's just not what I imagined when I saw the announcement several weeks ago about Last Chance.
On December 16 2020 02:17 Waxangel wrote: I think it's funny that ESL accidentally fell into having no anti-Korean region-lock this year, and none of the Korean elitists really noticed .
Instead, we basically had a system with a FULL region lock in 2020, with players being protected inside of the six EPT regions + GSL. Ironically, it was only third party tournament TSL that voluntarily kept the old, anti-Korean region-lock in place with its separated qualifiers.
Realistically speaking, we're not going to see the effect of a true, open-region EPT until 2022, when they shift the focus of tournaments away from EPT regionals and back to live DreamHack Open events. 2021 Is only going to have one such event (it seems), and even that may not happen at all if COVID continues to be a global issue.
TSL's "anti-korean" region lock wasn't really that bad since non koreans couldn't participate in both koreans and non korean qualifiers; instead of many regionals, there basically were korean qualifiers as opposed to World minus Korea qualifiers; in TSL 6 especially, the number of spots reserved to koreans seemed to be adequate. If every region is locked, and COVID locked Korea, it's all fair.
Ah whoops, good point about TSL6, I was thinking about it wrong. Cheers to 2020, then, the almost fully region locked year
I'll refrain from engaging in any suspicious-faith arguments about how the GSL should be
On December 16 2020 02:27 Charoisaur wrote: seems like Serral time is over
See? It IS always the haters and korena elitist who bring him up in every and all threads not even remotely connected. Thank you for making a fine point here Charo. There are still some BW threads you can mention how bad Serral is I believe
On December 16 2020 17:38 Durnuu wrote: Charoisaur vs Xain0n round 5438 pls
What's the score?
After reading again carefully, I do like this system. Korea may be favored because they have more chances, but it would still involve flying out, then delivering a godlike performance, maybe even jetlagged, to secure the direct spots. Yes, it's a shorter amount of time than a foreigner playing Code S, but still a huge commitment.
ESL Winter finals says Atlanta... do we know the other planned stops?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
In the new system, Code S will feature: - 8 players from Code A - 4 players from Super Tournament - 4 players from qualifiers
I suggest to make the qualifiers online and open to everybody. Qualified players would still need to travel to Korea to compete in Code S in person, but the prize money should be more than enough to cover transportation + accommodation even if they drop out in the first round (prize money for GSL ro16 in 2020 was $4000).
Personally, it would be interesting to see whether the top foreigners can manage to qualify for Code S or whether the Koreans pros can defend their home turf.
Sounds great imo. Mixing regional qualifiers with an open bracket is the best way of ensuring tough competition while still giving some chances to less strong regions.
On December 16 2020 02:27 Charoisaur wrote: seems like Serral time is over
See? It IS always the haters and korena elitist who bring him up in every and all threads not even remotely connected. Thank you for making a fine point here Charo. There are still some BW threads you can mention how bad Serral is I believe
not even remotely connected? The topic is region-lock. How is Serral not even remotely connected to it when he was the main beneficiary of that system?
and I'm a hater/korean elitist just because I don't think farming region-locked events makes Serral the GOAT?
On December 16 2020 02:27 Charoisaur wrote: seems like Serral time is over
See? It IS always the haters and korena elitist who bring him up in every and all threads not even remotely connected. Thank you for making a fine point here Charo. There are still some BW threads you can mention how bad Serral is I believe
not even remotely connected? The topic is region-lock. How is Serral not even remotely connected to it when he was the main beneficiary of that system?
and I'm a hater/korean elitist just because I don't think farming region-locked events makes Serral the GOAT?
No, you are a korean elitist because you think foreign tournaments are worth nothing in comparison to korean ones and you are a hater because you openly support "making fun of Serral when he loses", if you aren't doing it yourself.
ESL announced their plans for the EPT season 2021/2022, which include a partial uplift of region lock; Serral in particular has nothing to do with them. Once that you speak of Serral, however, you are implying that a player who is 7-2 in finals of international tournaments labeled as Premier(and also won 3 Major HSC events) that had korean presence, as opposed to 6-4 in EU/WCS titles, is "farming region locked events"?
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
In the new system, Code S will feature: - 8 players from Code A - 4 players from Super Tournament - 4 players from qualifiers
I suggest to make the qualifiers online and open to everybody. Qualified players would still need to travel to Korea to compete in Code S in person, but the prize money should be more than enough to cover transportation + accommodation even if they drop out in the first round (prize money for GSL ro16 in 2020 was $4000).
Personally, it would be interesting to see whether the top foreigners can manage to qualify for Code S or whether the Koreans pros can defend their home turf.
I realy realy like that Idear It would also make Code S more accesible for non- Korean -residents, Lifting the Soft Region lock for the GLOBAL SC2 League
On December 17 2020 00:31 Charoisaur wrote: and I'm a hater/korean elitist just because I don't think farming region-locked events makes Serral the GOAT?
that's way too obvious of an attempt of setting up the strawman, you can do better, and yes you are a hater, which I pointed to you a few times after you couldn't contain your emotions and spat out poor taste opinions all over this forum.There is no point in denying it really, i'm more interested in how you plan to get out of it.
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
In the new system, Code S will feature: - 8 players from Code A - 4 players from Super Tournament - 4 players from qualifiers
I suggest to make the qualifiers online and open to everybody. Qualified players would still need to travel to Korea to compete in Code S in person, but the prize money should be more than enough to cover transportation + accommodation even if they drop out in the first round (prize money for GSL ro16 in 2020 was $4000).
Personally, it would be interesting to see whether the top foreigners can manage to qualify for Code S or whether the Koreans pros can defend their home turf.
This is only fair if every qualifier match is played on the Korean server (unless there just happens to be a match without a player based around Asian servers). It's still the regional tournament for the Korean region that decides the majority of its standings and so the players from the region should be advantaged 100% of the time. That's the bare minimum as long as Korea is treated as being different from all other regions (nobody expects NA players to be allowed to play EU regionals without residency).
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
In the new system, Code S will feature: - 8 players from Code A - 4 players from Super Tournament - 4 players from qualifiers
I suggest to make the qualifiers online and open to everybody. Qualified players would still need to travel to Korea to compete in Code S in person, but the prize money should be more than enough to cover transportation + accommodation even if they drop out in the first round (prize money for GSL ro16 in 2020 was $4000).
Personally, it would be interesting to see whether the top foreigners can manage to qualify for Code S or whether the Koreans pros can defend their home turf.
This is only fair if every qualifier match is played on the Korean server (unless there just happens to be a match without a player based around Asian servers). It's still the regional tournament for the Korean region that decides the majority of its standings and so the players from the region should be advantaged 100% of the time. That's the bare minimum as long as Korea is treated as being different from all other regions (nobody expects NA players to be allowed to play EU regionals without residency).
Agreed, not sure how "let's reduce region locking" turned into "let's make things even harder on Koreans for no reason."
On December 16 2020 00:25 ilax30 wrote: Only fair if gsl would make it easier for foreigners to play in it then as well if we are removing region lock no?
So what would you suggest that doesn't attack the prestige of the competition? By which I mean what's a good solution that doesn't enable cross server play, doesn't include outright invites and doesn't condense the tournament's entire schedule into about 3 weeks?
In the new system, Code S will feature: - 8 players from Code A - 4 players from Super Tournament - 4 players from qualifiers
I suggest to make the qualifiers online and open to everybody. Qualified players would still need to travel to Korea to compete in Code S in person, but the prize money should be more than enough to cover transportation + accommodation even if they drop out in the first round (prize money for GSL ro16 in 2020 was $4000).
Personally, it would be interesting to see whether the top foreigners can manage to qualify for Code S or whether the Koreans pros can defend their home turf.
This is only fair if every qualifier match is played on the Korean server (unless there just happens to be a match without a player based around Asian servers). It's still the regional tournament for the Korean region that decides the majority of its standings and so the players from the region should be advantaged 100% of the time. That's the bare minimum as long as Korea is treated as being different from all other regions (nobody expects NA players to be allowed to play EU regionals without residency).
Yeah, the strange thing this year is that the GSL is treated like a qualifier to the DH seasonal finals similar like the DH regional finals. Just as GSL3, the EU regional final for DH Winter gave a higher reward in terms of EPT and moneys compared to the DH winter season final. This made everything weird. You'd think that if you qualify for a season final that the final would have even higher stakes somehow... Probably it would be good for ESL to go back to the drawing board and see how everything fits together at some point.
On December 16 2020 04:03 JJH777 wrote: Why are people acting like foreigners can't play in GSL? I mean with COVID travel restrictions that's true but there's a very real chance that by the time of the first GSL next year the travel restrictions will be more relaxed. Before COVID tons of foreigners played in GSL every year. They can even still participate in their regional events since they are online. Depending on what group of GSL they are in (if they even qualify) they can even go back home either between the qualifiers and their first group or between their first group and the ro16. Since there's typically around a month between one of those things. Then they can make the decision to stay or not based on whether they advance each round. It's not this impossible thing a lot of the foreigner biased fans in this thread are arguing.
Not a tons no. Especially from Europe the region which produced the best foreigners have very few participation in gsl for pretty obvious reasons that you don't seem able to identify. Staying in a country for more than not one but two months for one tournament is ridiculous considering the money in line, it's just not worth it unless you're settling in the country. And the fact you have to settle in a country to participate in the different seasons of this tournament is an effective region lock. Arguing that this limitation doesn't work as a region lock is quite a fallacy. Even the world cups last least long while most of them have way more means. I don't really see the reasons why the GLOBAL Starcraft League shouldn't have a format which provides an easier access to foreigners if there is a removal of the region lock but it appears without too much surprise that korean elitists are not really interested by fairness. The strange thing is that it's definetely the foreign scene and not Korean's one which maintained sc2 competition but in their blind fanboyism, some like you want the former to disappear.
EPT![[image loading]](https://tl.net/staff/Olli/EPT_2021.png)
![[image loading]](https://tl.net/staff/Olli/EPT_Katowice_spots_2021_v3.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/HCC1DxK.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/nHRkxus.jpg)
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Jeez, that is such an illogical argument. Let everyone earn their points and money in an as fair as possible manner I say. If the region lock is truly removed, this should be possible, but for all the statement about the region lock is removed, it sure looks like there is plenty of region lock left. Either per rules or de facto region locks. 
