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On November 23 2020 03:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either  With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing.
My point is that most of the pauses are like 0-2 minutes long. If your argument is that "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" while you are starting to play a game that lasts an unknown amount of time, your logic is bad or your time management is seriously skewed.
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It'd be cool if they added a feature where both players could agree to a pause length, and once they both agree neither can unpause before it's up. I don't mind waiting a few minutes if someone gets a phone call or whatever, shit happens, but I definitely don't trust people enough to walk away from my computer or anything. It'd be nice if the other player could send a request for a 5 minute pause and then once I agree, I can take a bathroom break, refill water, grab a snack or whatever, and know that the game's not gonna be unpaused when I come back. Or if I'm not willing to wait then I decline and then tough luck
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Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
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On November 23 2020 03:10 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing. My point is that most of the pauses are like 0-2 minutes long. If your argument is that "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" while you are starting to play a game that lasts an unknown amount of time, your logic is bad or your time management is seriously skewed.
Those are not the same thing. If two players with bad time management are playing each other, and only one of them pauses and wastes the others' time, both aren't equally at fault. The person not pausing is the victim in this case; the non-pauser is willing to deal with their own consequences of poor time management, whereas the pauser is the one being selfish and forcing others to also shoulder the burden of the pauser's poor time management.
I don't mind allowing for short pauses in most of my games, but it should also be understood that that's a privilege, not a right. The pauser shouldn't take it for granted, and to scold someone for unpausing a game is some weird victim blaming.
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On November 23 2020 03:13 Kovaz wrote:
It'd be cool if they added a feature where both players could agree to a pause length, and once they both agree neither can unpause before it's up. I don't mind waiting a few minutes if someone gets a phone call or whatever, shit happens, but I definitely don't trust people enough to walk away from my computer or anything. It'd be nice if the other player could send a request for a 5 minute pause and then once I agree, I can take a bathroom break, refill water, grab a snack or whatever, and know that the game's not gonna be unpaused when I come back. Or if I'm not willing to wait then I decline and then tough luck
That'd be a cool idea, kind of like a gentlemen's agreement ahead of time.
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Absolutely people should wait for the pause. It can't be that they have time to play game but don't have 30 seconds for the opponent to finish his urgent business. It's either wait those 30 seconds or throw away all the time you spent playing this game. You will probably win but it's a stolen win worth nothing. Truly wasted time.
I'm appalled how many people here try to excuse indefensible behavior.
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On November 23 2020 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:10 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 03:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing. My point is that most of the pauses are like 0-2 minutes long. If your argument is that "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" while you are starting to play a game that lasts an unknown amount of time, your logic is bad or your time management is seriously skewed. Those are not the same thing. If two players with bad time management are playing each other, and only one of them pauses and wastes the others' time, both aren't equally at fault. The person not pausing is the victim in this case; the non-pauser is willing to deal with their own consequences of poor time management, whereas the pauser is the one being selfish and forcing others to also shoulder the burden of the pauser's poor time management. I don't mind allowing for short pauses in most of my games, but it should also be understood that that's a privilege, not a right. The pauser shouldn't take it for granted, and to scold someone for unpausing a game is some weird victim blaming.
My point is that if you unpause based on the "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" argument you are lying. You've already committed yourself for an unknown period of time and that 1 minute isn't going to change it anyways.
edit: The pauser doesn't have fucking clairvoyance to know if for example they need to go to the door when they had no reason to wait that, or any other reason that requires your sudden attention for the next 30sec-2min. That's not the result of "poor time management" and it most definitely isn't "wasting time".
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On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time.
For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game.
If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example.
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If something comes up in the first minute of the game just leave, sort out whatever, and start another one. If the game has been going a while, sure a short pause is reasonable. But it is a courtesy, you aren't owed the other person waiting for you.
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On November 23 2020 03:14 Clear World wrote:
Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
You are confusing stuff. Expecting others to grant the pause is selfish. Not the other way round. If I need to pause, I usually just leave the game. Big deal. I think the elitists are the ones who can't bring themselves to see the defeat screen, and just start another game
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On November 23 2020 03:51 DSh1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:14 Clear World wrote:
Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
You are confusing stuff. Expecting others to grant the pause is selfish. Not the other way round. If I need to pause, I usually just leave the game. Big deal. I think the elitists are the ones who can't bring themselves to see the defeat screen, and just start another game
Wouldn't you say that the unpausers only do it because they can't handle to see the defeat screen and only unpause so they might get those ladder points without actually having to play the game?
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example.
It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't.
Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played.
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On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played.
Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you.
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On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you.
Imagine not having basic manners and saying it's because you're not privileged.
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United States1975 Posts
On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you.
And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency.
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On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency.
As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you.
Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others.
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On November 23 2020 03:14 Clear World wrote:
Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
I think the selfish thing here is to demand that since something happening to me IRL a stranger online should be forced to wait for me to come back. It is the definition of being entitled.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On November 23 2020 05:42 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency. As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you. Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others.
As if you're actually 'saving' time by unpausing immediately--it might maximize your time spent grabbing ladder points, but you're certainly not spending more time playing Starcraft.
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On November 23 2020 06:22 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 05:42 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency. As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you. Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others. As if you're actually 'saving' time by unpausing immediately--it might maximize your time spent grabbing ladder points, but you're certainly not spending more time playing Starcraft.
It doesn't matter how you see it. It does maximize your time playing Starcraft regardless of what you believe. See: I do not play Starcraft waiting for someone. I made my point clear. I personally would wait, I don't expect others to do the same and call them bad manner for it.
- NarutO
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Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:17 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 09:13 WombaT wrote:
I shall attempt to define Wombat’s Comprehensive and Completely Definitive Pause Etiquette.
The pauser should say pp or whatever, a short reason and timeframe such as ‘gotta get the door, 2 mins plz’. If not with the immediate request, then once the pause is granted.
If the pauser stretches over a reasonable period as to the agreed pause it’s sweet to unpause as the contract has been broken.
I really like this approach and think it should be standard. On a personal note in the context of an SC2 ladder game, I think 50% of the expected game length is the maximum reasonable allotted time for pause length. If you are in an extended macro game, it's reasonable to expect to have a little bit more time, compared to suffering a huge worker loss due to an all-in.
I think 1-2 minutes is sufficient for most all unexpected but non-essential things, answering your door for a delivery, a phone call and telling them you’ll call back, kiddos being annoying, piss breaks.
I’m a little biased on piss breaks as for medical reasons I probably pee 25+ times a day.
Inb4 ‘SC2 is the internet’ but I mean just imagine playing a game of pool at a bar and just clearing up the table when your opponent is at the bathroom. Would probably lead to bar brawls with the local pool sharks!
If on the other hand your opponent says ‘brb bathroom 2 mins’ and you find him like 20 minutes later hitting on some lady then you were within your rights to unpause, and I can’t see them minding either.
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