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Rant more than anything, but if a ladder game is paused, the opponent should not be able to resume for at least a minute. I've had a few games these past few days where I had to pause the game to answer a phone call or whatever and the opponent just resumes, causing me to lose. Yeah it's just a game, but still. Blizzard should make it so there's at least a minute before the opponent can resume the game, in case the person that paused it is just trolling and being BM.
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It makes some sense, but it makes pause-quit BMers much more annoying. I think maybe something shorter like 30 seconds, and you lose all your remaining pauses, might be doable (otherwise, you have 3 pauses, and each one needs a minute for the opponent, which means 3 minutes' delay before the opponent can claim victory if they meet BM)
Some say that if something urgent comes up, you should just leave the game, since it's just a ladder game anyway, and it's somewhat selfish to force others to wait for you if they don't want. I think giving a small delay like 30 seconds makes sense in this context as well, it should give enough time for shorter errands or to give an explanation if it's something long + urgent, to let the opponent decide whether to wait or not.
In the end though, waiting when the opponent pauses is only courtesy, and it's impossible to mandate courtesy 
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do.
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Allowing your opponent to pause is a curtesy, it's not required.
If you need to step away, you need to accept and come to terms with the possibility your opponent doesn't want to wait for you.
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If you don't have time to play a game it shouldn't be on anyone else to give you time. If they choose to let you take a break that is fine, but nobody should have their time wasted just because you didn't manage your time properly. Take the L and move on it is just a game.
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On November 22 2020 07:31 geokilla wrote:
Rant more than anything, but if a ladder game is paused, the opponent should not be able to resume for at least a minute. I've had a few games these past few days where I had to pause the game to answer a phone call or whatever and the opponent just resumes, causing me to lose. Yeah it's just a game, but still. Blizzard should make it so there's at least a minute before the opponent can resume the game, in case the person that paused it is just trolling and being BM.
are your phone calls so important that you have to take them? just call back or take the loss dude
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Pausing is disrespectful of your opponent's time. If you can't deal with the consequences of your opponent unpausing, don't play.
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100% no. People shouldn't have to wait on you, and people could obviously abuse this by being BM.
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Northern Ireland24370 Posts
On November 22 2020 07:31 geokilla wrote:
Rant more than anything, but if a ladder game is paused, the opponent should not be able to resume for at least a minute. I've had a few games these past few days where I had to pause the game to answer a phone call or whatever and the opponent just resumes, causing me to lose. Yeah it's just a game, but still. Blizzard should make it so there's at least a minute before the opponent can resume the game, in case the person that paused it is just trolling and being BM.
Would be abused so fucking hardcore if it was a feature.
I shall attempt to define Wombat’s Comprehensive and Completely Definitive Pause Etiquette.
The pauser should say pp or whatever, a short reason and timeframe such as ‘gotta get the door, 2 mins plz’. If not with the immediate request, then once the pause is granted.
If the pauser stretches over a reasonable period as to the agreed pause it’s sweet to unpause as the contract has been broken.
On the other side of the aisle there is a special place reserved in hell for folks who come back and resume without messaging. Once actually lost a game when I was feeling generous and the guy took approximately 14 years to return and they unpaused when I was tabbed out.
Being more serious I mean I guess it’s a personal thing. I think pausing for a few mins is completely reasonable, and should just be a convention like gging that’s just largely done.
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Ridiculous, it is totally ok to resume inmediatly even if there is no special reason. If you log in to play a game, you are supposed to take care of things at your end. Btw you lost because you decided to take a call while playing not because your opponent forced you to play.
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I do exptect others to let me pause if I need to do something urgent, just because most players have time and are courtous. Sometimes I forgot my drink in the living room, other times I need to a fix an issue in the settings. Almost always my opponent lets me fix it 9/10. If the person doesn't either he is a douche or he doesn't have the time/patience to wait for me. Its not worth it for me to explore the reason he unpause, its his right, just take the disadvantage/loss and move on.
I clicked play it is my responsiblity that I can devote 30 minutes totally to starcraft 2, if I am waiting for an important call I needed to take I could either A) dont play or B) play knowing I will probably take a loss if I get the call.
If the opponent lets me pause he is being nice and respectful, this idea is similar to locking the game and refusing to let a player leave unless he GGs. Forced courteousness
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If an opponent allows you to pause, they are being polite.
If they dont allow you to pause and immediately restart the after you pause, tough luck, but you do not get to decide that your time is more important than theirs.
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All of concerns here could be resolved with some programming logic. Let player pause for a minute every once in a while (e.g. 1 in 20 games or more games). Otherwise, the feature isn't active. That solves the BM problem and people being careless with time. The other side "loses" only a minute. If someone thinks one minute is crucial, they shouldn't be playing games anyway. Also, CS: GO lets teams have 1 pause per half. In the worst case, that's 4 pauses of 1 min or so for up to 32 rounds.
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Not everybody has the same level of etiquette. Not on the opponent to adapt. The only thing that's important is whether something is illegal or not.
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On November 22 2020 08:54 Comedy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 07:31 geokilla wrote:
Rant more than anything, but if a ladder game is paused, the opponent should not be able to resume for at least a minute. I've had a few games these past few days where I had to pause the game to answer a phone call or whatever and the opponent just resumes, causing me to lose. Yeah it's just a game, but still. Blizzard should make it so there's at least a minute before the opponent can resume the game, in case the person that paused it is just trolling and being BM. are your phone calls so important that you have to take them? just call back or take the loss dude
I literally pause, and before I can even answer it to see who it is, the game is resumed. If it was a long phone call then yeah it's understandable. But at least give me 5s to type out "phone" man.
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If they don't type a "pp" or similar before/shortly after, you can resume in a matter of seconds with no issue.
The chat is the politeness of requesting a favor of a pause. And it's just a ladder game; you can just resign and queue for the next if it's gonna take you a bit.
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On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do.
A good reason to instantly unpause? I don't buy that--games take a variable amount of time anyhow, if you're immediately unpausing you're just being an asshole.
That being said not unpausing is still a courtesy that the opponent is extending to you, so I don't think it's something Blizzard should be enforcing.
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There is no game that I have played that I do not concede some minutes to the other player if they pause, why? Just common courtesy as everyone can have something pop up in the midle of a game (pizza ringing the door comes to mind).
As ZigguratOfUr said, if you or your opponent unpause the game on the second you are just a complete asshole. Please have the minimum level of sportmanship.
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Definitely disagree, like most people here. I'll allow for a small break as a courtesy, but there's no obligation for people to allow others to prevent them from playing the game. If you need to leave the game, even temporarily, that's on you, not your opponent.
If you think an opponent not letting you pause is disrespectful, just think how disrespectful it is that you're wasting their time with your pause. You're on there to play and win. If it's an emergency or something comes up, leave the game or at least don't be surprised if someone won't honor your pause.
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Luckily in Tournament games, you are usually allowed to pause if there is a legitimate reason.
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It's just ladder dude, if you can't take the phone call and keep playing then don't pick up the phone call.
I've gotten phone calls all the time for work and I'll pick up and keep playing and I might play worse but if the calls so important and I really must have those extra 20 ladder points, that's on me not the other person. I find 99% of people are more than cool if I write "pp" and then also the reason why immediately after before I pause, if I write pp and they dont okay it I keep going.
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Giving sore losers the chance to waste a minute of your time after a won game is not a great idea.
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idk how u can be a member since 2011 and have this pov. what even
edit; also, expecting blizzard to make any changes like this after their recent announcement is a big: xD
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On November 22 2020 10:46 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 08:54 Comedy wrote:On November 22 2020 07:31 geokilla wrote:
Rant more than anything, but if a ladder game is paused, the opponent should not be able to resume for at least a minute. I've had a few games these past few days where I had to pause the game to answer a phone call or whatever and the opponent just resumes, causing me to lose. Yeah it's just a game, but still. Blizzard should make it so there's at least a minute before the opponent can resume the game, in case the person that paused it is just trolling and being BM. are your phone calls so important that you have to take them? just call back or take the loss dude I literally pause, and before I can even answer it to see who it is, the game is resumed. If it was a long phone call then yeah it's understandable. But at least give me 5s to type out "phone" man.
If this was a rated chess game on the board I wouldn´t even think to stop the clock because my phone rang. If this was a rated game online I wouldn´t even have the chance to stop the clock.
Likewise If I stop a starcraft game to check the door I feel I´m just abusing my opponents goodwill. Even if it is something truly important for ME. A ladder game is part of a competition. If I want to take it seriously I may as well not answer the door or mute my phone.
And the one thing I dislike the most, is how people in this thread misunderstand being Polite with doing whatever others want you to do. Goodwill and politeness are different.
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100% agree.
But in return you just autolose when you press pause. Players can continue playing but no matter who leaves first player who touched pause is count as loser.
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+ Show Spoiler +
One day when you wait for a paused opponent out of goodwill, this will happen to you (3:08 on video / Volume Warning!).
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If you don't have the multitasking to answer the phone and play at the same time you don't deserve the win.
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I'm grategul to my opponent if i pause and they wait for me, but if I may take time (like 5 mins) then i'll just gg out.
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On November 22 2020 18:03 insitelol wrote:
100% agree.
But in return you just autolose when you press pause. Players can continue playing but no matter who leaves first player who touched pause is count as loser.
I kinda like this  Would make for some funny games as well.
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If someone pauses I normally type "?" and give the pauser a few sec to state the problem. If he doesn't I resume.
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On November 22 2020 12:35 TelecoM wrote:
Luckily in Tournament games, you are usually allowed to pause if there is a legitimate reason.
Yeah, but you won't be taking phone calls during that I guess?
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I think if you unpause the game you are a terrible person (unless we're talking like 10 minutes of waiting with no information from the opponent).
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On November 22 2020 21:49 DSh1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 12:35 TelecoM wrote:
Luckily in Tournament games, you are usually allowed to pause if there is a legitimate reason. Yeah, but you won't be taking phone calls during that I guess?
I'd bet the opponent might be entitled to ask for a game loss
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 22 2020 10:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. A good reason to instantly unpause? I don't buy that--games take a variable amount of time anyhow, if you're immediately unpausing you're just being an asshole. That being said not unpausing is still a courtesy that the opponent is extending to you, so I don't think it's something Blizzard should be enforcing.
1) The game literally just started? If you can't sort your shit before the game starts and you request a pause right after the game loaded, WTF? Get yourself together!
2) I love people who are not exactly polite to my silence and then request a pause and expect me to be polite. Seriously?
4) I love the pauses arfter my opponent lost 4 battles in a row, I know they have much weaker army, I am going for the killing blow and suddenly they request a pause? No way, I'm winning the game and moving on, not gonna waste my time. If you don't like it, leave the game, you should have left anyway 2 minutes ago when you bathed in the storms with your bio for the epic nexus kill.
5) I am not risking a 5min pause(yeah, I had those) when I am playing the last game of the day.
6) Oh, and the holy grail of all the superb pauses are people who pause before they attack me. Then they don't realize they play me again and pause the game again before the attack. Nope, not gonna happen. But hey, maybe they really really get calls in the similar time and situation in both games, what a coincidence!
7) If they're on my ignore list, insta unpause. Sorry not sorry, if you're on my ignore list you're either a cheeser or somebody who lowered they MMR by a lot. No pause for ya.
I usually don't mind waiting(although I unpause after 7 minutes, that's my limit, but sometimes I either don't have the nerves or the time(or both). 9 out of 10 times I'm gonna wait, pauses are not that often and they don't often meet my criterias for cancelling them.
Edit> specifically #1 pisses me off, so sometimes i just leave and move on. I want to play the game, not wait in the pause while looking at my 1st pylong warping in...
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On November 22 2020 23:18 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 10:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. A good reason to instantly unpause? I don't buy that--games take a variable amount of time anyhow, if you're immediately unpausing you're just being an asshole. That being said not unpausing is still a courtesy that the opponent is extending to you, so I don't think it's something Blizzard should be enforcing. 1) The game literally just started? If you can't sort your shit before the game starts and you request a pause right after the game loaded, WTF? Get yourself together! 2) I love people who are not exactly polite to my silence and then request a pause and expect me to be polite. Seriously? 4) I love the pauses arfter my opponent lost 4 battles in a row, I know they have much weaker army, I am going for the killing blow and suddenly they request a pause? No way, I'm winning the game and moving on, not gonna waste my time. If you don't like it, leave the game, you should have left anyway 2 minutes ago when you bathed in the storms with your bio for the epic nexus kill. 5) I am not risking a 5min pause(yeah, I had those) when I am playing the last game of the day. 6) Oh, and the holy grail of all the superb pauses are people who pause before they attack me. Then they don't realize they play me again and pause the game again before the attack. Nope, not gonna happen. But hey, maybe they really really get calls in the similar time and situation in both games, what a coincidence! 7) If they're on my ignore list, insta unpause. Sorry not sorry, if you're on my ignore list you're either a cheeser or somebody who lowered they MMR by a lot. No pause for ya. I usually don't mind waiting(although I unpause after 7 minutes, that's my limit, but sometimes I either don't have the nerves or the time(or both). 9 out of 10 times I'm gonna wait, pauses are not that often and they don't often meet my criterias for cancelling them. Edit> specifically #1 pisses me off, so sometimes i just leave and move on. I want to play the game, not wait in the pause while looking at my 1st pylong warping in...
1: There usually is a reason to pause at the start of the game. Maybe a hotkey is wrong, maybe you spilled your drink when putting it down before starting to play, etc. The list is endless. This is probably the worst reason to unpause on your list.
2: I have no idea what this even means.
3: Where is 3?
5: Doesn't this just mean you prioritize your time over others, making your statement "Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do." hypocritical bs.
7: "I unpause because cheeser (((" Wow aren't you just a great person :DD
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The pause button is ok in professional setting where money is on the line.
But on ladder? If you have something that is more important than the game going on just go deal with it instead of wasting someone else's time.
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I always type '2 mins max' if the opponent pauses. If he doesn't unpause after 2 minutes, I unpause.
If I want a pause, I type 'pp', but it's totally fine if the opponent unpauses. It's not really nice etiquette, but it's an online multiplayer game. If the opponent doesn't want to wait, it's fine.
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Disagree, its not an issue as it is. I mean, how often is there a really really important thing that forces you to pause. I veeery seldom pause myself, but the few times I have done so I have written something quickly why, and i think noone so far has resumed the game. It is, as you said, a game. And I think its good that the pause it not misused.
Your suggestion would however be potentially very, very annoying.
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Nah, hard pass on this idea. It'll mostly be abused and used to waste people's time.
My general take on this is if I get a call or something worth answering I just leave the game. I don't want to waste the other person's time, especially if it ends up being longer than 30 seconds or something. I think leaving is the more courteous thing to do than pausing. It's just a game and one loss isn't the end of the world.
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I never resume cause i don t wanna win because a person was afk , it brings me no pleasure to win then. People who insta resume games are to me people that would easily cheat in sc2 if they knew they could get away with it, same mentality. But thats just me
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I think it's absurd that the game lets you pause at all in ladder games. I think that's completely absurd and I've never heard of that in other games. If you have to leave to do something, you leave the game. It's just a ladder game, after all. If the opponent waits at all, that's magnanimous of them. They are totally justified in rejecting the pause. One game's worth of ladder points is not worth discussion.
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On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do.
Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume.
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United States1804 Posts
On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume.
This pretty much sums it up. If you're worried about wasting time you're probably better off not playing StarCraft. Just let the person pause since you've already allocated the time to doing something that is essentially useless.
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8748 Posts
On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume.
On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:
You're playing a video game
the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead.
what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time.
this situation is pretty simple. we can all agree that it's possible something more important than the game or some impediment to playing the game can suddenly arise, so it's unavoidable that some games will either be paused or be abandoned. both of those options are a waste, but it's unavoidable. responsible and respectable use of pause is a tool meant for minimizing the waste. however, people abuse pause, either to spite their opponent or out of selfishness. depending on your own experience (how much effort you put into avoiding ever pausing your games vs how much your opponents make you wait, especially unnecessarily), it may become clear to you that pause isn't being used correctly to improve the situation and minimize waste.
luckily, the way it's designed, you can opt out of it being used at all by instantly resuming. however, there are other people who think that they are using pause responsibly and are now upset that some players are not allowing them to continue to use pause how they want to, and those players, for no reason at all, assume the moral high ground and take offense and belittle and verbally abuse people who simply want to opt out of pausing because they've been taken advantage of in the past.
there's no logical reason to believe that the pausers are more polite or have some moral superiority. from my experience, they are more likely to be selfish or abusers and simply want to continue to take advantage of patient players. but i sympathize with the ones who have never abused it and are upset when a stranger doesn't allow them to continue to use it responsibly.
as a thought experiment, if i was a single consciousness controlling everybody playing sc2, and one of my bodies needed to pause then i would make the other body wait. in other words, a utopian ladder experience exists where pause is used optimally and improves the experience. but that's not reality. people pause for different reasons and it's inevitable that some people don't agree with how pausing is used on average and become against it in general. there's no reason to insult the people who have this experience. it's a perfectly predictable and reasonable result for some portion of the population.
my advice: try to pause if you want to but dont be upset if your opponent doesnt want to. on the other side, if you want to instantly resume every pause, maybe give some people a chance and reach a compromise like some people in this thread have done: give them 30 seconds, which is enough for most responsible pauses, and it's better to wait 30 seconds than to ruin the game that you've already spent more than 30 seconds developing
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On November 23 2020 01:22 NonY wrote:
the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead.
what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time.
etc etc ...
The problem is many viewing the problem through their own moral lenses rather than taking the whole thing into account. It's bound to godwin at some point.
It's not at the level of a player trying to use every thread possible to gain an advantage (trash talking but stopping just below the warning limit, non-useful pauses, etc.), for me merely not allowing someone to pause is a storm in a teacup. Trying to solve the problem would only cause a worse one.
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On November 23 2020 01:22 NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume. the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead. what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time. this situation is pretty simple. we can all agree that it's possible something more important than the game or some impediment to playing the game can suddenly arise, so it's unavoidable that some games will either be paused or be abandoned. both of those options are a waste, but it's unavoidable. responsible and respectable use of pause is a tool meant for minimizing the waste. however, people abuse pause, either to spite their opponent or out of selfishness. depending on your own experience (how much effort you put into avoiding ever pausing your games vs how much your opponents make you wait, especially unnecessarily), it may become clear to you that pause isn't being used correctly to improve the situation and minimize waste. luckily, the way it's designed, you can opt out of it being used at all by instantly resuming. however, there are other people who think that they are using pause responsibly and are now upset that some players are not allowing them to continue to use pause how they want to, and those players, for no reason at all, assume the moral high ground and take offense and belittle and verbally abuse people who simply want to opt out of pausing because they've been taken advantage of in the past. there's no logical reason to believe that the pausers are more polite or have some moral superiority. from my experience, they are more likely to be selfish or abusers and simply want to continue to take advantage of patient players. but i sympathize with the ones who have never abused it and are upset when a stranger doesn't allow them to continue to use it responsibly. as a thought experiment, if i was a single consciousness controlling everybody playing sc2, and one of my bodies needed to pause then i would make the other body wait. in other words, a utopian ladder experience exists where pause is used optimally and improves the experience. but that's not reality. people pause for different reasons and it's inevitable that some people don't agree with how pausing is used on average and become against it in general. there's no reason to insult the people who have this experience. it's a perfectly predictable and reasonable result for some portion of the population. my advice: try to pause if you want to but dont be upset if your opponent doesnt want to. on the other side, if you want to instantly resume every pause, maybe give some people a chance and reach a compromise like some people in this thread have done: give them 30 seconds, which is enough for most responsible pauses, and it's better to wait 30 seconds than to ruin the game that you've already spent more than 30 seconds developing
I can count with the fingers of my two hands the times i've dealt with someone "abusing" the pause system. I can tell you numerous times where one of the two players asked for a pause for a legitimate reason, the other waited and then the game continued like normal. It's just a common courtesy.
In fact I'd argue that the people who are most responsible for not fulfilling your utopia of pauses being used legitimately are the ones who unpause no matter what for a chance at a few ladder points at the opponents expense without actually having to earn it by playing.
And lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place.
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On November 23 2020 01:50 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 01:22 NonY wrote:On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume. On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:
You're playing a video game the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead. what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time. this situation is pretty simple. we can all agree that it's possible something more important than the game or some impediment to playing the game can suddenly arise, so it's unavoidable that some games will either be paused or be abandoned. both of those options are a waste, but it's unavoidable. responsible and respectable use of pause is a tool meant for minimizing the waste. however, people abuse pause, either to spite their opponent or out of selfishness. depending on your own experience (how much effort you put into avoiding ever pausing your games vs how much your opponents make you wait, especially unnecessarily), it may become clear to you that pause isn't being used correctly to improve the situation and minimize waste. luckily, the way it's designed, you can opt out of it being used at all by instantly resuming. however, there are other people who think that they are using pause responsibly and are now upset that some players are not allowing them to continue to use pause how they want to, and those players, for no reason at all, assume the moral high ground and take offense and belittle and verbally abuse people who simply want to opt out of pausing because they've been taken advantage of in the past. there's no logical reason to believe that the pausers are more polite or have some moral superiority. from my experience, they are more likely to be selfish or abusers and simply want to continue to take advantage of patient players. but i sympathize with the ones who have never abused it and are upset when a stranger doesn't allow them to continue to use it responsibly. as a thought experiment, if i was a single consciousness controlling everybody playing sc2, and one of my bodies needed to pause then i would make the other body wait. in other words, a utopian ladder experience exists where pause is used optimally and improves the experience. but that's not reality. people pause for different reasons and it's inevitable that some people don't agree with how pausing is used on average and become against it in general. there's no reason to insult the people who have this experience. it's a perfectly predictable and reasonable result for some portion of the population. my advice: try to pause if you want to but dont be upset if your opponent doesnt want to. on the other side, if you want to instantly resume every pause, maybe give some people a chance and reach a compromise like some people in this thread have done: give them 30 seconds, which is enough for most responsible pauses, and it's better to wait 30 seconds than to ruin the game that you've already spent more than 30 seconds developing I can count with the fingers of my two hands the times i've dealt with someone "abusing" the pause system. I can tell you numerous times where one of the two players asked for a pause for a legitimate reason, the other waited and then the game continued like normal. It's just a common courtesy.
You need to play on NA more. Then you will understand people being assholes with the pausing system. There are people on NA who do not respect others' time at all. Someone will ask for a pause, you'll wait a few minutes and then unpause because they still aren't back, then they'll show up a couple minutes later and start flaming you for unpausing. I used to have a 5 minute limit before I unpaused and I hit that limit a lot.
I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but it happens more often than you think it would. And this isn't even getting into the weirdly large contingent of butthurt terrans who pause before leaving the game just to be a jerk.
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On November 22 2020 09:13 WombaT wrote:
I shall attempt to define Wombat’s Comprehensive and Completely Definitive Pause Etiquette.
The pauser should say pp or whatever, a short reason and timeframe such as ‘gotta get the door, 2 mins plz’. If not with the immediate request, then once the pause is granted.
If the pauser stretches over a reasonable period as to the agreed pause it’s sweet to unpause as the contract has been broken.
I really like this approach and think it should be standard.
On a personal note in the context of an SC2 ladder game, I think 50% of the expected game length is the maximum reasonable allotted time for pause length. If you are in an extended macro game, it's reasonable to expect to have a little bit more time, compared to suffering a huge worker loss due to an all-in.
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On November 23 2020 02:12 Ben... wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 01:50 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 01:22 NonY wrote:On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume. On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote:
You're playing a video game the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead. what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time. this situation is pretty simple. we can all agree that it's possible something more important than the game or some impediment to playing the game can suddenly arise, so it's unavoidable that some games will either be paused or be abandoned. both of those options are a waste, but it's unavoidable. responsible and respectable use of pause is a tool meant for minimizing the waste. however, people abuse pause, either to spite their opponent or out of selfishness. depending on your own experience (how much effort you put into avoiding ever pausing your games vs how much your opponents make you wait, especially unnecessarily), it may become clear to you that pause isn't being used correctly to improve the situation and minimize waste. luckily, the way it's designed, you can opt out of it being used at all by instantly resuming. however, there are other people who think that they are using pause responsibly and are now upset that some players are not allowing them to continue to use pause how they want to, and those players, for no reason at all, assume the moral high ground and take offense and belittle and verbally abuse people who simply want to opt out of pausing because they've been taken advantage of in the past. there's no logical reason to believe that the pausers are more polite or have some moral superiority. from my experience, they are more likely to be selfish or abusers and simply want to continue to take advantage of patient players. but i sympathize with the ones who have never abused it and are upset when a stranger doesn't allow them to continue to use it responsibly. as a thought experiment, if i was a single consciousness controlling everybody playing sc2, and one of my bodies needed to pause then i would make the other body wait. in other words, a utopian ladder experience exists where pause is used optimally and improves the experience. but that's not reality. people pause for different reasons and it's inevitable that some people don't agree with how pausing is used on average and become against it in general. there's no reason to insult the people who have this experience. it's a perfectly predictable and reasonable result for some portion of the population. my advice: try to pause if you want to but dont be upset if your opponent doesnt want to. on the other side, if you want to instantly resume every pause, maybe give some people a chance and reach a compromise like some people in this thread have done: give them 30 seconds, which is enough for most responsible pauses, and it's better to wait 30 seconds than to ruin the game that you've already spent more than 30 seconds developing I can count with the fingers of my two hands the times i've dealt with someone "abusing" the pause system. I can tell you numerous times where one of the two players asked for a pause for a legitimate reason, the other waited and then the game continued like normal. It's just a common courtesy. You need to play on NA more. Then you will understand people being assholes with the pausing system. There are people on NA who do not respect others' time at all. Someone will ask for a pause, you'll wait a few minutes and then unpause because they still aren't back, then they'll show up a couple minutes later and start flaming you for unpausing. I used to have a 5 minute limit before I unpaused and I hit that limit a lot. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but it happens more often than you think it would. And this isn't even getting into the weirdly large contingent of butthurt terrans who pause before leaving the game just to be a jerk.
I have played a good amount on NA. My personal experience there isnt really different from EU (Except for some really weird cheesy playstyles).
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Mexico2170 Posts
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the oponent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what IS BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that takes literally 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". And then proceeded to be an asshole the rest of the game. Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately I quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least.
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If you are playing, do not answer the phone call. If you are expecting a phone call that is urgent or important, do not play. You are being disrespectful. While I agree that it's kind of against etiquette of Starcraft to unpause I would still rather blame the person pausing than the person unpausing.
- Naruto
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On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least.
Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all.
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On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all.
Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place.
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The topic should stop there anyway. With how the state of the game is, that will never change unless 50 percent +1 of the most involved players commit on it.
Unfair as it is, morals don't feed, results do.
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On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place.
If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either 
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On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either
With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game...
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Mexico2170 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all.
Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be.
But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not.
Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause.
The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad.
I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed.
And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time.
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United States1804 Posts
On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious cause since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" and paused and left without waiting to see what the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruins someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM.
MMR is obviously more important than being courteous.
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On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game...
There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing.
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On November 23 2020 03:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing.
My point is that most of the pauses are like 0-2 minutes long. If your argument is that "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" while you are starting to play a game that lasts an unknown amount of time, your logic is bad or your time management is seriously skewed.
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It'd be cool if they added a feature where both players could agree to a pause length, and once they both agree neither can unpause before it's up. I don't mind waiting a few minutes if someone gets a phone call or whatever, shit happens, but I definitely don't trust people enough to walk away from my computer or anything. It'd be nice if the other player could send a request for a 5 minute pause and then once I agree, I can take a bathroom break, refill water, grab a snack or whatever, and know that the game's not gonna be unpaused when I come back. Or if I'm not willing to wait then I decline and then tough luck
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Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
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On November 23 2020 03:10 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing. My point is that most of the pauses are like 0-2 minutes long. If your argument is that "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" while you are starting to play a game that lasts an unknown amount of time, your logic is bad or your time management is seriously skewed.
Those are not the same thing. If two players with bad time management are playing each other, and only one of them pauses and wastes the others' time, both aren't equally at fault. The person not pausing is the victim in this case; the non-pauser is willing to deal with their own consequences of poor time management, whereas the pauser is the one being selfish and forcing others to also shoulder the burden of the pauser's poor time management.
I don't mind allowing for short pauses in most of my games, but it should also be understood that that's a privilege, not a right. The pauser shouldn't take it for granted, and to scold someone for unpausing a game is some weird victim blaming.
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On November 23 2020 03:13 Kovaz wrote:
It'd be cool if they added a feature where both players could agree to a pause length, and once they both agree neither can unpause before it's up. I don't mind waiting a few minutes if someone gets a phone call or whatever, shit happens, but I definitely don't trust people enough to walk away from my computer or anything. It'd be nice if the other player could send a request for a 5 minute pause and then once I agree, I can take a bathroom break, refill water, grab a snack or whatever, and know that the game's not gonna be unpaused when I come back. Or if I'm not willing to wait then I decline and then tough luck
That'd be a cool idea, kind of like a gentlemen's agreement ahead of time.
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Absolutely people should wait for the pause. It can't be that they have time to play game but don't have 30 seconds for the opponent to finish his urgent business. It's either wait those 30 seconds or throw away all the time you spent playing this game. You will probably win but it's a stolen win worth nothing. Truly wasted time.
I'm appalled how many people here try to excuse indefensible behavior.
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On November 23 2020 03:20 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:10 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 03:09 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing. My point is that most of the pauses are like 0-2 minutes long. If your argument is that "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" while you are starting to play a game that lasts an unknown amount of time, your logic is bad or your time management is seriously skewed. Those are not the same thing. If two players with bad time management are playing each other, and only one of them pauses and wastes the others' time, both aren't equally at fault. The person not pausing is the victim in this case; the non-pauser is willing to deal with their own consequences of poor time management, whereas the pauser is the one being selfish and forcing others to also shoulder the burden of the pauser's poor time management. I don't mind allowing for short pauses in most of my games, but it should also be understood that that's a privilege, not a right. The pauser shouldn't take it for granted, and to scold someone for unpausing a game is some weird victim blaming.
My point is that if you unpause based on the "I'm busy and dont have time for even a 1 minute pause" argument you are lying. You've already committed yourself for an unknown period of time and that 1 minute isn't going to change it anyways.
edit: The pauser doesn't have fucking clairvoyance to know if for example they need to go to the door when they had no reason to wait that, or any other reason that requires your sudden attention for the next 30sec-2min. That's not the result of "poor time management" and it most definitely isn't "wasting time".
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On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time.
For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game.
If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example.
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If something comes up in the first minute of the game just leave, sort out whatever, and start another one. If the game has been going a while, sure a short pause is reasonable. But it is a courtesy, you aren't owed the other person waiting for you.
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On November 23 2020 03:14 Clear World wrote:
Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
You are confusing stuff. Expecting others to grant the pause is selfish. Not the other way round. If I need to pause, I usually just leave the game. Big deal. I think the elitists are the ones who can't bring themselves to see the defeat screen, and just start another game
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On November 23 2020 03:51 DSh1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:14 Clear World wrote:
Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
You are confusing stuff. Expecting others to grant the pause is selfish. Not the other way round. If I need to pause, I usually just leave the game. Big deal. I think the elitists are the ones who can't bring themselves to see the defeat screen, and just start another game
Wouldn't you say that the unpausers only do it because they can't handle to see the defeat screen and only unpause so they might get those ladder points without actually having to play the game?
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On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example.
It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't.
Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played.
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On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played.
Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you.
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On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you.
Imagine not having basic manners and saying it's because you're not privileged.
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United States1804 Posts
On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you.
And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency.
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On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency.
As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you.
Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others.
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On November 23 2020 03:14 Clear World wrote:
Reading this thread responses is what makes me sad and part of the reason I view the SC2 community being filled with too many elitist and selfish people.
The core concept of: "if I pause, may I have a moment before the opponent can unpause it themselves" is not an unreasonable suggestion and does have some merit. External factors outside of the game may force a player to take their attention off the game momentarily. As some has listed before, as simply needing to fixing hotkeys or maybe a stupid accident occurred such as spilling a drink or maybe suddenly someone is ringing your door bell for some unknown reason.
Numbers can be tweaked and how it exactly works can be discussed. Maybe each player has a total 1 minute buffer period during the entire match before the opponent can forcibly unpause. Maybe we can reduce it down to 15-30 seconds instead. Enough time to give the player time to at least explain the reason? Idk what the best number could be, but what I do know is, simply saying, no & hard pass appears because I don't want to wait comes off as rather selfish.
Overall opinion I get from reading post by people who disagree:
- Opponents are jerks and will abuse this system for the sake of making it unfun for me
- If something happens in the real world that takes my opponent's attention from the game momentarily, will then my opponent deserved be screwed over.
- My time playing this ladder game is super important, and I shouldn't have to spare a single second for my opponent.
- Maybe because of the three reasons above, therefore, I shouldn't have to give any courtesy or sportsmanship to my opponent
I think the selfish thing here is to demand that since something happening to me IRL a stranger online should be forced to wait for me to come back. It is the definition of being entitled.
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On November 23 2020 05:42 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency. As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you. Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others.
As if you're actually 'saving' time by unpausing immediately--it might maximize your time spent grabbing ladder points, but you're certainly not spending more time playing Starcraft.
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On November 23 2020 06:22 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 05:42 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency. As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you. Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others. As if you're actually 'saving' time by unpausing immediately--it might maximize your time spent grabbing ladder points, but you're certainly not spending more time playing Starcraft.
It doesn't matter how you see it. It does maximize your time playing Starcraft regardless of what you believe. See: I do not play Starcraft waiting for someone. I made my point clear. I personally would wait, I don't expect others to do the same and call them bad manner for it.
- NarutO
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Northern Ireland24370 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:17 Sadistx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 09:13 WombaT wrote:
I shall attempt to define Wombat’s Comprehensive and Completely Definitive Pause Etiquette.
The pauser should say pp or whatever, a short reason and timeframe such as ‘gotta get the door, 2 mins plz’. If not with the immediate request, then once the pause is granted.
If the pauser stretches over a reasonable period as to the agreed pause it’s sweet to unpause as the contract has been broken.
I really like this approach and think it should be standard. On a personal note in the context of an SC2 ladder game, I think 50% of the expected game length is the maximum reasonable allotted time for pause length. If you are in an extended macro game, it's reasonable to expect to have a little bit more time, compared to suffering a huge worker loss due to an all-in.
I think 1-2 minutes is sufficient for most all unexpected but non-essential things, answering your door for a delivery, a phone call and telling them you’ll call back, kiddos being annoying, piss breaks.
I’m a little biased on piss breaks as for medical reasons I probably pee 25+ times a day.
Inb4 ‘SC2 is the internet’ but I mean just imagine playing a game of pool at a bar and just clearing up the table when your opponent is at the bathroom. Would probably lead to bar brawls with the local pool sharks!
If on the other hand your opponent says ‘brb bathroom 2 mins’ and you find him like 20 minutes later hitting on some lady then you were within your rights to unpause, and I can’t see them minding either.
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On November 23 2020 06:25 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 06:22 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 05:42 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote:
Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame.
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM.
I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys.
You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure.
I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM.
Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again.
But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency. As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you. Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others. As if you're actually 'saving' time by unpausing immediately--it might maximize your time spent grabbing ladder points, but you're certainly not spending more time playing Starcraft. It doesn't matter how you see it. It does maximize your time playing Starcraft regardless of what you believe. See: I do not play Starcraft waiting for someone. I made my point clear. I personally would wait, I don't expect to do the same and call them bad manner for it. - NarutO
Nonsense. You're also not playing Starcraft when you're queued up waiting for the next game, after killing the opponent when they weren't around. And this is just rationalizing--the internet equivalent of arguing that you're not being bad mannered by not holding the door open for three seconds for someone carrying heavy objects, since you don't owe them your time.
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No one is mentionning the state of the game in their decision process? Like are you seriously expecting me to pause during your canon rush or turtling game? If it's a good game, surely I can wait a bit to play the end of it.
Fact is OP seems to have a lot of opponents unpausing, is he turtling or cheesing?
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Pause could be a requestable thing, like when you press F10 P a popup appears somewhere non-disruptive on the opponent's UI. It could be >50% agreement in teamgames (between allies and opponents, excluding the pauser, for an odd number of voters). Before or after you issue the request, maybe you've entered PP or similar in the chat or given justification.
Unpausing could work similarly. A majority/unanimous ready check, with a timed automatic validation, perhaps.
EDIT: That way, nobody can pause-spam you if you just want to not waste your time, but it won't fully address the issue of ninja-upause.
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I have a hard time understanding how this thread could turn into this, I thought we would all pretty much agree.
No one is obliged by law or natural order to wait for anyones pause. Just because something is discourtous, which I agree it is, that does not mean you can force others to be polite to you.
If I walk up to someone in town and ask them a question, maybe they ignore me. Does that mean I should start a bill with city hall to make a law that forces everyone to answer questions because not doing so is rude?
Not answering strangers is impolite, unpausing in starcraft after your opponent asked a min is also impolite but you know what, Being impolite is within everyones own right, you don't know their train of thought at the time or how they are feeling.
As I wrote in my last post, courtousness should not be forced and is voluntary, just like writing gg wp after a match.
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Bisutopia19205 Posts
Pause should be a researchable tier 3 town hall ability with a 5 minute cool down.
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On November 23 2020 09:33 BisuDagger wrote:
Pause should be a researchable tier 3 town hall ability with a 5 minute cool down.
lol, you definitely shouldn't be pausing the game at T1
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Waiting for pause is a matter of courtesy, and there's no need for any rules to regulate it. But then unpausing the game without waiting for 10-20 seconds is impolite, and there's nothing wrong calling that impolite.
This might or might not relate, but this remind me of "Fantasy GG timing", isn't it also a waste of time for the winner?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 23 2020 06:39 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 06:25 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 06:22 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 05:42 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 05:40 Mizenhauer wrote:On November 23 2020 05:33 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 04:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 23 2020 03:32 TaKeTV wrote:On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote:On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote:
[quote]
Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all.
Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. For your example I agree. If he unpauses after agreeing, that is bad mannered. Not allowing the opponent to pause is not. I personally always did wait for the pause but I can absolutely understand people that don't. When I was still active I didn't open the door, didn't answer the phone etc. I played the game that I was looking to play. If someone unexpected so urgent came up then I quit the game. If you can fix it within 30 seconds, chances are you can fix it after the game too. Lets just agree to disagree besides your named example. It's clearly much more of a burden for someone to ensure that nothing will interrupt them during the course of a game, than to grant your opponent a short pause. Maybe you're privileged enough that it isn't an issue, but for many people it isn't. Not allowing the opponent a 30 second pause is discourteous and inconsiderate precisely because it costs people so little to allow the pause. The only thing to be gained from unpausing is free ladder points--you're not even getting more Starcraft played. Maybe you are too priviliged if you believe that someone should spend their time waiting for you. And....................... we have reached the nadir of human decency. As I said, I personally allow a pause and wait for someone. But if someone tells me its "bad mannered" that a person is not willing to spent their time waiting for him/her, sorry no. You are committing your time for a game as is he/she. If you see reason to make other people wait, thats on you. Doesn't mean I do it, but I can absolutely understand if someone who has little time, doesn'T want to spend that time waiting for others. As if you're actually 'saving' time by unpausing immediately--it might maximize your time spent grabbing ladder points, but you're certainly not spending more time playing Starcraft. It doesn't matter how you see it. It does maximize your time playing Starcraft regardless of what you believe. See: I do not play Starcraft waiting for someone. I made my point clear. I personally would wait, I don't expect to do the same and call them bad manner for it. - NarutO Nonsense. You're also not playing Starcraft when you're queued up waiting for the next game, after killing the opponent when they weren't around. And this is just rationalizing--the internet equivalent of arguing that you're not being bad mannered by not holding the door open for three seconds for someone carrying heavy objects, since you don't owe them your time.
The waiting time in the queue is a thing you cannot avoid. Waiting for somebody because they didn't think about going to the toilet before they hit the play button is the other thing. Or they cannot ignore the phone. Or they need the drink right now!~ Either it can wait 20 minutes(this is not HotS/WoL) or you shouldn't have hit the play button. I'm not saying people should unpause, but calling it bad manners when many people are literally wasting their opponents time with their own inability to plan 20 minutes ahead(yes, you can call back once the game's over). Thankfully there are not that many people requiring a pause anyway.
e.g.:
On November 22 2020 09:32 Shuffleblade wrote:I do exptect others to let me pause if I need to do something urgent, just because most players have time and are courtous. Sometimes I forgot my drink in the living room, other times I need to a fix an issue in the settings. + Show Spoiler +Almost always my opponent lets me fix it 9/10. If the person doesn't either he is a douche or he doesn't have the time/patience to wait for me. Its not worth it for me to explore the reason he unpause, its his right, just take the disadvantage/loss and move on.
I clicked play it is my responsiblity that I can devote 30 minutes totally to starcraft 2, if I am waiting for an important call I needed to take I could either A) dont play or B) play knowing I will probably take a loss if I get the call.
If the opponent lets me pause he is being nice and respectful, this idea is similar to locking the game and refusing to let a player leave unless he GGs. Forced courteousness
Notice that in this thread we read that a forgotten drink is URGENT 
On November 22 2020 23:39 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 23:18 deacon.frost wrote:On November 22 2020 10:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote:
Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. A good reason to instantly unpause? I don't buy that--games take a variable amount of time anyhow, if you're immediately unpausing you're just being an asshole. That being said not unpausing is still a courtesy that the opponent is extending to you, so I don't think it's something Blizzard should be enforcing. 1) The game literally just started? If you can't sort your shit before the game starts and you request a pause right after the game loaded, WTF? Get yourself together! 2) I love people who are not exactly polite to my silence and then request a pause and expect me to be polite. Seriously? 4) I love the pauses arfter my opponent lost 4 battles in a row, I know they have much weaker army, I am going for the killing blow and suddenly they request a pause? No way, I'm winning the game and moving on, not gonna waste my time. If you don't like it, leave the game, you should have left anyway 2 minutes ago when you bathed in the storms with your bio for the epic nexus kill. 5) I am not risking a 5min pause(yeah, I had those) when I am playing the last game of the day. 6) Oh, and the holy grail of all the superb pauses are people who pause before they attack me. Then they don't realize they play me again and pause the game again before the attack. Nope, not gonna happen. But hey, maybe they really really get calls in the similar time and situation in both games, what a coincidence! 7) If they're on my ignore list, insta unpause. Sorry not sorry, if you're on my ignore list you're either a cheeser or somebody who lowered they MMR by a lot. No pause for ya. I usually don't mind waiting(although I unpause after 7 minutes, that's my limit, but sometimes I either don't have the nerves or the time(or both). 9 out of 10 times I'm gonna wait, pauses are not that often and they don't often meet my criterias for cancelling them. Edit> specifically #1 pisses me off, so sometimes i just leave and move on. I want to play the game, not wait in the pause while looking at my 1st pylong warping in... 1: There usually is a reason to pause at the start of the game. Maybe a hotkey is wrong, maybe you spilled your drink when putting it down before starting to play, etc. The list is endless. This is probably the worst reason to unpause on your list. 2: I have no idea what this even means. 3: Where is 3? 5: Doesn't this just mean you prioritize your time over others, making your statement "Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do." hypocritical bs. 7: "I unpause because cheeser (((" Wow aren't you just a great person :DD
1) I don't care. Sort it before the game. There's a reason this is a strike in the Code S 
2) I don't chat. If you write me gl, hf I don't reply(doesn't apply to team games). Usually(depends on how pissed I am, but I would say 96,19486195 % of the 1v1 I don't reply). Sometimes this does bring the best in my opponend As they are so well mannered the continuation of the chat is as well! Imagine something like this - gl, hf. GL HF!!! What's wrong with you? Can't you read? Are you gay? Faggot... and then they request a pause Uh... I'm not exactly expert on manners, but if you insult me and then request a favor from me, aren't you a little bit... weird?
2,5) Screw 3
5) I don't think so. The sooner the game is over the sooner you can get your drink from the living room Most of the pauses are not urgent per se and are happening just because the other person cannot see 5 minutes ahead. Also pause makes the game longer than it should be while not playing the game, which wastes the time. So nope, it's not.
7) Unpause because ignore list. We had a shouting match either initiated by you or by me. But we had one and I'm not gonna remove you from the ignore list because I use it to know what to expect from people Sorry not sorry. (fun fact - not every cheeser ends on my ignore list, the capacity isn't that big )
42) But most importantly, the pause doesn't happen that often, so this whole discussion is a little bit pointless. In my last 500 games I had a pause maybe 10 times? (0 initiated by me, I leave when I need a pause because I need more than 2 minutes as I can plan ahead and my phone calls aren't super mega uber urgent)
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I have managed to play the game without pausing once for 10 years. If something important comes up I just GG and leave without wasting my opponents time.
This thread has inspired me to change how I handle people that pauses. From now on when someone pauses I will just randomly unpause after 10-15 seconds without saying anything.
I suggest other people do the same. This is the best soloution to handle people that pauses, how else will they learn?
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lol bruh, if something happens and is more important than the game, why getting upset if you lose it? why would some1 else suffer from your misfortune too? if you can't focus 10 minutes on a game, it is not ur opponent's problem.
edit: this being said, I think it is perfectly fine how it is right now. if he wants to wait ok, if he doesn't it should be ok too.
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It's actually would be much more fair if you couldn't even pause w/o other player accepting it. It should be the following: when someone hits pause button, the other player recieves a yes/no dialog option, so if he wants he can actually pause the game. That's what they call courtesy.
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On November 23 2020 19:18 MockHamill wrote:
I have managed to play the game without pausing once for 10 years. If something important comes up I just GG and leave without wasting my opponents time.
This thread has inspired me to change how I handle people that pauses. From now on when someone pauses I will just randomly unpause after 10-15 seconds without saying anything.
I suggest other people do the same. This is the best soloution to handle people that pauses, how else will they learn?
Well atleast you are giving evidence for my hypothesis "people who unpause are bad people". )
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On November 23 2020 17:59 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2020 09:32 Shuffleblade wrote:I do exptect others to let me pause if I need to do something urgent, just because most players have time and are courtous. Sometimes I forgot my drink in the living room, other times I need to a fix an issue in the settings. + Show Spoiler +Almost always my opponent lets me fix it 9/10. If the person doesn't either he is a douche or he doesn't have the time/patience to wait for me. Its not worth it for me to explore the reason he unpause, its his right, just take the disadvantage/loss and move on.
I clicked play it is my responsiblity that I can devote 30 minutes totally to starcraft 2, if I am waiting for an important call I needed to take I could either A) dont play or B) play knowing I will probably take a loss if I get the call.
If the opponent lets me pause he is being nice and respectful, this idea is similar to locking the game and refusing to let a player leave unless he GGs. Forced courteousness Notice that in this thread we read that a forgotten drink is URGENT
Yes, urgent for my enjoyment of the game could be getting a drink, hell it could be getting the pillow for my back. If my opponent will not grant me the the thirty seconds I need to enjoy the game fully sometime I just leave and thats fine. Its like once every 50ish games I need a paus tops, because I usually make sure to get everything ready, but sometimes I make a mistake. When that happens I hope my opponent lets me fix it, even if it is just getting my drink.
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Bisutopia19205 Posts
Sometimes I pause and say I need to go to the bathroom. I wait for my opponent to impatiently unpause and start macro-ing because they think I'm afk. But really I'm preparing my all-in.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 23 2020 20:22 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 19:18 MockHamill wrote:
I have managed to play the game without pausing once for 10 years. If something important comes up I just GG and leave without wasting my opponents time.
This thread has inspired me to change how I handle people that pauses. From now on when someone pauses I will just randomly unpause after 10-15 seconds without saying anything.
I suggest other people do the same. This is the best soloution to handle people that pauses, how else will they learn?
Well atleast you are giving evidence for my hypothesis "people who unpause are bad people". )
What is the threshold for unpausing where bad becomes good? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? Never?
And I am bad, but at least I don't try to hide it like all the well mannered players who then write obscenities at me before they quit the game.
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On November 23 2020 23:19 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 20:22 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 19:18 MockHamill wrote:
I have managed to play the game without pausing once for 10 years. If something important comes up I just GG and leave without wasting my opponents time.
This thread has inspired me to change how I handle people that pauses. From now on when someone pauses I will just randomly unpause after 10-15 seconds without saying anything.
I suggest other people do the same. This is the best soloution to handle people that pauses, how else will they learn?
Well atleast you are giving evidence for my hypothesis "people who unpause are bad people". ) What is the threshold for unpausing where bad becomes good? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? Never? And I am bad, but at least I don't try to hide it like all the well mannered players who then write obscenities at me before they quit the game.
If you dont get any information when you ask "sup?" or something similar, i'd wait like a few minutes and start being like "yo i'm gonna unpause soon if i dont get any info" and if they dont answer that either, unpause with a warning. I believe that is pretty acceptable.
edit: and I don't even pretend to be a well mannered player, but i still have the decency to wait for someone if they pause. And yes, i would call you an asshole if you unpaused vs me if i asked for the pause :')
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Northern Ireland24370 Posts
On November 23 2020 22:43 BisuDagger wrote:
Sometimes I pause and say I need to go to the bathroom. I wait for my opponent to impatiently unpause and start macro-ing because they think I'm afk. But really I'm preparing my all-in.
I love this haha.
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Northern Ireland24370 Posts
On November 23 2020 23:19 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 20:22 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 19:18 MockHamill wrote:
I have managed to play the game without pausing once for 10 years. If something important comes up I just GG and leave without wasting my opponents time.
This thread has inspired me to change how I handle people that pauses. From now on when someone pauses I will just randomly unpause after 10-15 seconds without saying anything.
I suggest other people do the same. This is the best soloution to handle people that pauses, how else will they learn?
Well atleast you are giving evidence for my hypothesis "people who unpause are bad people". ) What is the threshold for unpausing where bad becomes good? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? Never? And I am bad, but at least I don't try to hide it like all the well mannered players who then write obscenities at me before they quit the game.
I thought I’d already solved the theoretical optimal etiquette up the thread
A pause (singular) of 1-2 minutes, with a request and estimate of a wait of 1-2 minutes should be granted as base level etiquette, a la gging or glhf. Basically because that time covers most eventualities of unexpected but non-serious events. Be it a phone call, call of nature, someone ringing your doorbell or w/e.
Anything beyond that is up to the generosity of the pause recipient, and if they’re not up for a 5+ minute pause they can make it known then. I wouldn’t consider it bad etiquette to not allow long pauses.
Other instances of bad etiquette are the pauser unpausing without warning, which should see you booted into a least the 3rd level of hell.
For ladder specifically I’d like to see the pause function changed tbh, others have mentioned it.
You request a pause and a small, unintrusive tool tip appears for your opponent to grant it. The pause maximum is 2 minutes, but can be extended if your opponent agrees. If you go to unpause the same thing happens, then it does the countdown thing you get at the start of the game, so both players have a chance to get back into the flow and assessing the game state.
Pausing does really fuck up my rhythm in a game, and you do get times where people pause in the middle of an intense battle just to fuck with you, I’d absolutely prefer the system be changed to prevent that kind of shithouse behaviour.
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On November 23 2020 09:33 BisuDagger wrote:
Pause should be a researchable tier 3 town hall ability with a 5 minute cool down.
20 balance patches later:
- Pause ability renamed to Timeflow Disrupter
- Timeflow Disrupter ability is now available from the beginning of the game.
- Timeflow Disrupter cooldown increased from 5 minutes to 10 minutes.
- Timeflow Disrupter lasts for minimum 30 seconds during which it cannot be cancelled by the opponent.
- Added "Improved Timeflow Disrupter" upgrade to Evolution Chamber/Forge/Engineering Bay. The upgrade reduces the cooldown of Timeflow Disrupter to 5 minutes and increases the minimum pause time to 60 seconds.
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Bisutopia19205 Posts
On November 24 2020 00:10 SpaceBoar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 09:33 BisuDagger wrote:
Pause should be a researchable tier 3 town hall ability with a 5 minute cool down. 20 balance patches later: - Pause ability renamed to Timeflow Disrupter - Timeflow Disrupter ability is now available from the beginning of the game. - Timeflow Disrupter cooldown increased from 5 minutes to 10 minutes. - Timeflow Disrupter lasts for minimum 30 seconds during which it cannot be cancelled by the opponent. - Added "Improved Timeflow Disrupter" upgrade to Evolution Chamber/Forge/Engineering Bay. The upgrade reduces the cooldown of Timeflow Disrupter to 5 minutes and increases the minimum pause time to 60 seconds.
21 patches later
*upgrade now sets the game speed to slowest for one minute
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My take on the matter:
A) Allowing a pause is a favour.
B) Pausing without writing anything is improper.
C) Unpausing immediately (not waiting for any chat from the one who paused the game) is strange behaviour. I don't understand why people do this. This thread has given a lot of input for various reasons, but I cannot see how those reasons justify the behaviour. "You are stealing my time" argument is the most odd one. Is it better to spend a few minutes to play vs AFK than to wait 10 seconds to know why the game is paused? Is playing vs AFK something positive? "You should have sorted things out ahead of time and I am in a rush" is a variant of stealing time. Games can go long. If you are in such a rush that seconds matter, how would you deal with a game that goes into ultra late game? No player that has unpaused my games have ever left a 30 minute game early. Does this mean that I never faced anyone with limited time to play?
D) If the pause is allowed, don't resume the game without the consent of the opponent. That is BM.
E) My personal use of pause is very urgent. Recently it has been because of kittens. I have started playing while they sleep and they wake up when I am playing.
+ Show Spoiler +Recent reasons for me pausing are + Show Spoiler +Kittens being hungry takes about 40s to take care of. If it isn't cared for I cannot play. They walk on the keyboard to get my attention. Sleepy cat moved to sleep on the mouse cord. One cat moved from my lap to settle in on the keyboard. The kitten pressed the pause button when it was walking toward the window. I heard a crash. Went to investigate. 2 pauses were similar and my short investigation of these cases lead me to leave the game. One cat threw up, and one cat had poop stuck to their leg and spread it over the floor meowing all the while.
F) There shouldn't be any changes done to how pauses work. 3 pauses is seldom needed in game. Any more would just irritate your opponent. There are people that uses pauses to BM which means that setting a minimum time for pauses would help them BM more. Requiring consent to activate the pause would cost time for the pausing player which reduces the fairness of the game. A countdown after the pause would help BM with the extra time without doing anything when courteous player are unpausing since they follow D).
User has been warned for posting 7 spoilers about kittens and not one of them contained an adorable picture of them.
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Sorry OP but I agree with the majority, no dice.
This game is all about complete focus and youre ruining it. They have no idea how long youll be and tbf owe you nothing.
I think it depends on the game state.
If im ahead and u pause, maybe i will wait a bit.
Im in behind and u pause, i take opportunity.
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8748 Posts
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz
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On November 23 2020 23:19 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2020 20:22 Luolis wrote:On November 23 2020 19:18 MockHamill wrote:
I have managed to play the game without pausing once for 10 years. If something important comes up I just GG and leave without wasting my opponents time.
This thread has inspired me to change how I handle people that pauses. From now on when someone pauses I will just randomly unpause after 10-15 seconds without saying anything.
I suggest other people do the same. This is the best soloution to handle people that pauses, how else will they learn?
Well atleast you are giving evidence for my hypothesis "people who unpause are bad people". ) What is the threshold for unpausing where bad becomes good? 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 30 minutes? Never? And I am bad, but at least I don't try to hide it like all the well mannered players who then write obscenities at me before they quit the game.
A well mannered player goes the extra mile and leaves when the opponent asks for a pause
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On November 23 2020 06:42 nojok wrote:
No one is mentionning the state of the game in their decision process? Like are you seriously expecting me to pause during your canon rush or turtling game? If it's a good game, surely I can wait a bit to play the end of it.
Fact is OP seems to have a lot of opponents unpausing, is he turtling or cheesing?
I'm just playing standard lol. If the phone rings or the door bell goes off, I have to get it. Before I even get the chance to explain why the game is paused after I type "pp", they resume the game. At least give me 10 seconds?
I've been playing more over the weekend and luckily no BM pause-resume situations. Maybe it was just a bad streak.
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When Game is Going, Opponent Should Not Pause
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz
Agreed. Also there's no warning for unpausing. Not even a sound. Before I had 2 monitors this was a true pain. But we have double countdown for a ladder game :D (once in the menu, once in the game itself)
At least let me check the supply, what's building, select buildings, move camera, check workers etc.
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Bisutopia19205 Posts
On November 24 2020 20:54 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz Agreed. Also there's no warning for unpausing. Not even a sound. Before I had 2 monitors this was a true pain. But we have double countdown for a ladder game :D (once in the menu, once in the game itself) At least let me check the supply, what's building, select buildings, move camera, check workers etc.
Would your stress be relieved if carbot videos played during pauses?
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 24 2020 22:38 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 20:54 deacon.frost wrote:On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz Agreed. Also there's no warning for unpausing. Not even a sound. Before I had 2 monitors this was a true pain. But we have double countdown for a ladder game :D (once in the menu, once in the game itself) At least let me check the supply, what's building, select buildings, move camera, check workers etc. Would your stress be relieved if carbot videos played during pauses?
What do you think I do when the game is pauseD? I wouldnt'have to alt tab then.
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On November 24 2020 22:38 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 20:54 deacon.frost wrote:On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz Agreed. Also there's no warning for unpausing. Not even a sound. Before I had 2 monitors this was a true pain. But we have double countdown for a ladder game :D (once in the menu, once in the game itself) At least let me check the supply, what's building, select buildings, move camera, check workers etc. Would your stress be relieved if carbot videos played during pauses?
Or some cute kitten videos <3
Player A: pp
A pauses game
Player A: Doorbell, 10 sec
Player B: sure
Blizz plays kitten vid
Player A: re. Gogo?
Player B: Nah wait. Just one more vid
3 hours later
Player B: Have you seen the one where the white kitten fits in this super small box?
Player A: That was cute but have you seen the one where the black kitten jumps on the dudes face and then fells asleep?
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On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz
lol, the king says so! Boys, deal with your lose.
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On November 24 2020 23:53 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 22:38 BisuDagger wrote:On November 24 2020 20:54 deacon.frost wrote:On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz Agreed. Also there's no warning for unpausing. Not even a sound. Before I had 2 monitors this was a true pain. But we have double countdown for a ladder game :D (once in the menu, once in the game itself) At least let me check the supply, what's building, select buildings, move camera, check workers etc. Would your stress be relieved if carbot videos played during pauses? Or some cute kitten videos <3 Player A: pp A pauses game Player A: Doorbell, 10 sec Player B: sure Blizz plays kitten vid Player A: re. Gogo? Player B: Nah wait. Just one more vid 3 hours later Player B: Have you seen the one where the white kitten fits in this super small box? Player A: That was cute but have you seen the one where the black kitten jumps on the dudes face and then fells asleep?
Me: Where's my cat achievement plus cat skin, so we can play the cutie cat war game.
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I don't wanna live in a world where my BM opponent pauses the game everytime before he quits and I cant resume it, no thanks.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On November 24 2020 23:53 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 22:38 BisuDagger wrote:On November 24 2020 20:54 deacon.frost wrote:On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz Agreed. Also there's no warning for unpausing. Not even a sound. Before I had 2 monitors this was a true pain. But we have double countdown for a ladder game :D (once in the menu, once in the game itself) At least let me check the supply, what's building, select buildings, move camera, check workers etc. Would your stress be relieved if carbot videos played during pauses? Or some cute kitten videos <3 Player A: pp A pauses game Player A: Doorbell, 10 sec Player B: sure Blizz plays kitten vid Player A: re. Gogo? Player B: Nah wait. Just one more vid 3 hours later Player B: Have you seen the one where the white kitten fits in this super small box? Player A: That was cute but have you seen the one where the black kitten jumps on the dudes face and then fells asleep?
No kittens, or I unpause every pause immediatelly.
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On November 25 2020 00:28 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On November 24 2020 23:53 Harris1st wrote:On November 24 2020 22:38 BisuDagger wrote:On November 24 2020 20:54 deacon.frost wrote:On November 24 2020 04:14 NonY wrote:
the truth is that being unable to move the screen during a pause triggers my claustrophobia. dont trigger me plz Agreed. Also there's no warning for unpausing. Not even a sound. Before I had 2 monitors this was a true pain. But we have double countdown for a ladder game :D (once in the menu, once in the game itself) At least let me check the supply, what's building, select buildings, move camera, check workers etc. Would your stress be relieved if carbot videos played during pauses? Or some cute kitten videos <3 Player A: pp A pauses game Player A: Doorbell, 10 sec Player B: sure Blizz plays kitten vid Player A: re. Gogo? Player B: Nah wait. Just one more vid 3 hours later Player B: Have you seen the one where the white kitten fits in this super small box? Player A: That was cute but have you seen the one where the black kitten jumps on the dudes face and then fells asleep? No kittens, or I unpause every pause immediatelly.
Are you even human? *insert confused kitten gif*
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I think this could be solved with some kind of simple system. For example you could have pool of seconds that are used when you pause. During these seconds your opponent can not resume. At start of the game you have 12 seconds and after every minute you get 6 seconds. Pool also would have maximum of 2 minutes, that is reached after 18 minutes. To fix the possible abuse of pausing we have now multiple parameters that can be tweaked as punishment. For example you can lower the maximum and how fast the seconds are earned or even prevent player pausing, if player is noticed to abuse pausing. It should also be quite easy to detect, if a reason for pause is given, and if no attempt to give a reason is made, opponent could be allowed to resume after a few seconds regardless of the pool. Also if opponent left the game after pausing it could easily allow player to resume right after without needing to wait.
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I honestly think Blizzard should remove pause.
If something comes up IRL I just leave the game and I expect my opponent to do the same.
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Bisutopia19205 Posts
On November 25 2020 03:41 BronzeKnee wrote:
I honestly think Blizzard should remove pause.
If something comes up IRL I just leave the game and I expect my opponent to do the same.
Not everything is 1v1 against randos. It is a nice feature to have if you are playing with friends and need to pause to pay for the three cups of ramen you ordered through uber eats.
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I hope you guys realize they halt starcraft development, so most of the devs and the teams are gone, for something that's not essential like this? nah, good reason or not, you are not getting it anyway.
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On November 25 2020 05:38 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote:
I hope you guys realize they halt starcraft development, so most of the devs and the teams are gone, for something that's not essential like this? nah, good reason or not, you are not getting it anyway.
Not entirely correct. You're confusing the discontinuation of new paid for content (eg: Warchests and Co-op commanders) with a complete stop to development. Bug fixes, ladder maps, and possible balance changes are still on the table. Granted, going forward, we'll see much less and less significant patching, but they haven't exactly moved all SC2 staff onto something else. Either way, we will (99.9%) certainly not see any changes to the pause mechanic. Remember the OP: this is a rant more than anything.
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EPT
