EPTWhen Game Is Paused, Opponent Should Not Resume - Page 3
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Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
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Therapist.
United States207 Posts
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SickeL
110 Posts
On November 22 2020 07:55 deacon.frost wrote: Sure, YOUR pause is importnat. But what about the other person who may not have the time for your pause? Have you thought about them as well? While your reason for a pause may be a good one, their unpausing may have a reason as well. For sure mine do. Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume. | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1975 Posts
On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote: Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume. This pretty much sums it up. If you're worried about wasting time you're probably better off not playing StarCraft. Just let the person pause since you've already allocated the time to doing something that is essentially useless. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote: Man, I think this is a worse take. You're playing a video game, you obviously aren't concerned about productive use of that time. With a phone call interrupting the game, it may in fact be too important for them to ignore. Especially for a video game. The only people who think pausing is "rude" are children, I have to assume. On November 23 2020 00:51 SickeL wrote: You're playing a video game the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead. what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time. this situation is pretty simple. we can all agree that it's possible something more important than the game or some impediment to playing the game can suddenly arise, so it's unavoidable that some games will either be paused or be abandoned. both of those options are a waste, but it's unavoidable. responsible and respectable use of pause is a tool meant for minimizing the waste. however, people abuse pause, either to spite their opponent or out of selfishness. depending on your own experience (how much effort you put into avoiding ever pausing your games vs how much your opponents make you wait, especially unnecessarily), it may become clear to you that pause isn't being used correctly to improve the situation and minimize waste. luckily, the way it's designed, you can opt out of it being used at all by instantly resuming. however, there are other people who think that they are using pause responsibly and are now upset that some players are not allowing them to continue to use pause how they want to, and those players, for no reason at all, assume the moral high ground and take offense and belittle and verbally abuse people who simply want to opt out of pausing because they've been taken advantage of in the past. there's no logical reason to believe that the pausers are more polite or have some moral superiority. from my experience, they are more likely to be selfish or abusers and simply want to continue to take advantage of patient players. but i sympathize with the ones who have never abused it and are upset when a stranger doesn't allow them to continue to use it responsibly. as a thought experiment, if i was a single consciousness controlling everybody playing sc2, and one of my bodies needed to pause then i would make the other body wait. in other words, a utopian ladder experience exists where pause is used optimally and improves the experience. but that's not reality. people pause for different reasons and it's inevitable that some people don't agree with how pausing is used on average and become against it in general. there's no reason to insult the people who have this experience. it's a perfectly predictable and reasonable result for some portion of the population. my advice: try to pause if you want to but dont be upset if your opponent doesnt want to. on the other side, if you want to instantly resume every pause, maybe give some people a chance and reach a compromise like some people in this thread have done: give them 30 seconds, which is enough for most responsible pauses, and it's better to wait 30 seconds than to ruin the game that you've already spent more than 30 seconds developing | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
On November 23 2020 01:22 NonY wrote: the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead. what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time. etc etc ... The problem is many viewing the problem through their own moral lenses rather than taking the whole thing into account. It's bound to godwin at some point. It's not at the level of a player trying to use every thread possible to gain an advantage (trash talking but stopping just below the warning limit, non-useful pauses, etc.), for me merely not allowing someone to pause is a storm in a teacup. Trying to solve the problem would only cause a worse one. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7202 Posts
On November 23 2020 01:22 NonY wrote: the whole problem is that you're NOT playing a video game. a total stranger who just agreed to play a game with you has now told you that he requires you to wait on him instead. what is "productive use of that time"? if your goal is to play a video game with this time and your opponent pauses the game, then he's destroying your productive use of this time. this situation is pretty simple. we can all agree that it's possible something more important than the game or some impediment to playing the game can suddenly arise, so it's unavoidable that some games will either be paused or be abandoned. both of those options are a waste, but it's unavoidable. responsible and respectable use of pause is a tool meant for minimizing the waste. however, people abuse pause, either to spite their opponent or out of selfishness. depending on your own experience (how much effort you put into avoiding ever pausing your games vs how much your opponents make you wait, especially unnecessarily), it may become clear to you that pause isn't being used correctly to improve the situation and minimize waste. luckily, the way it's designed, you can opt out of it being used at all by instantly resuming. however, there are other people who think that they are using pause responsibly and are now upset that some players are not allowing them to continue to use pause how they want to, and those players, for no reason at all, assume the moral high ground and take offense and belittle and verbally abuse people who simply want to opt out of pausing because they've been taken advantage of in the past. there's no logical reason to believe that the pausers are more polite or have some moral superiority. from my experience, they are more likely to be selfish or abusers and simply want to continue to take advantage of patient players. but i sympathize with the ones who have never abused it and are upset when a stranger doesn't allow them to continue to use it responsibly. as a thought experiment, if i was a single consciousness controlling everybody playing sc2, and one of my bodies needed to pause then i would make the other body wait. in other words, a utopian ladder experience exists where pause is used optimally and improves the experience. but that's not reality. people pause for different reasons and it's inevitable that some people don't agree with how pausing is used on average and become against it in general. there's no reason to insult the people who have this experience. it's a perfectly predictable and reasonable result for some portion of the population. my advice: try to pause if you want to but dont be upset if your opponent doesnt want to. on the other side, if you want to instantly resume every pause, maybe give some people a chance and reach a compromise like some people in this thread have done: give them 30 seconds, which is enough for most responsible pauses, and it's better to wait 30 seconds than to ruin the game that you've already spent more than 30 seconds developing I can count with the fingers of my two hands the times i've dealt with someone "abusing" the pause system. I can tell you numerous times where one of the two players asked for a pause for a legitimate reason, the other waited and then the game continued like normal. It's just a common courtesy. In fact I'd argue that the people who are most responsible for not fulfilling your utopia of pauses being used legitimately are the ones who unpause no matter what for a chance at a few ladder points at the opponents expense without actually having to earn it by playing. And lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On November 23 2020 01:50 Luolis wrote: I can count with the fingers of my two hands the times i've dealt with someone "abusing" the pause system. I can tell you numerous times where one of the two players asked for a pause for a legitimate reason, the other waited and then the game continued like normal. It's just a common courtesy. You need to play on NA more. Then you will understand people being assholes with the pausing system. There are people on NA who do not respect others' time at all. Someone will ask for a pause, you'll wait a few minutes and then unpause because they still aren't back, then they'll show up a couple minutes later and start flaming you for unpausing. I used to have a 5 minute limit before I unpaused and I hit that limit a lot. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but it happens more often than you think it would. And this isn't even getting into the weirdly large contingent of butthurt terrans who pause before leaving the game just to be a jerk. | ||
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
On November 22 2020 09:13 WombaT wrote: I shall attempt to define Wombat’s Comprehensive and Completely Definitive Pause Etiquette. The pauser should say pp or whatever, a short reason and timeframe such as ‘gotta get the door, 2 mins plz’. If not with the immediate request, then once the pause is granted. If the pauser stretches over a reasonable period as to the agreed pause it’s sweet to unpause as the contract has been broken. I really like this approach and think it should be standard. On a personal note in the context of an SC2 ladder game, I think 50% of the expected game length is the maximum reasonable allotted time for pause length. If you are in an extended macro game, it's reasonable to expect to have a little bit more time, compared to suffering a huge worker loss due to an all-in. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7202 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:12 Ben... wrote: You need to play on NA more. Then you will understand people being assholes with the pausing system. There are people on NA who do not respect others' time at all. Someone will ask for a pause, you'll wait a few minutes and then unpause because they still aren't back, then they'll show up a couple minutes later and start flaming you for unpausing. I used to have a 5 minute limit before I unpaused and I hit that limit a lot. I don't know if it's a cultural thing or what, but it happens more often than you think it would. And this isn't even getting into the weirdly large contingent of butthurt terrans who pause before leaving the game just to be a jerk. I have played a good amount on NA. My personal experience there isnt really different from EU (Except for some really weird cheesy playstyles). | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM. I always ask the oponent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys. You want to know what IS BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that takes literally 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure. I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". And then proceeded to be an asshole the rest of the game. Now THAT is being BM. Fortunately I quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again. But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1201 Posts
- Naruto | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1201 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:40 [Phantom] wrote: Wow. Apparently TL is full of BM people that unpause. What a shame. I agree completely OP, Maybe recude the number of pauses from 3 to 2 so there are no problems with BM. I always ask the opoent if I can pause for a second, I never just pause and leave to do something. If they say yes, I pause. If they say no, I leave the game or go AFK while I do the other thing real quick. I don't know why people say pausing is BM and disrespectful. It's literally a feature of the game guys. You want to know what is BM and disrespectful? I asked a guy if I could pause for a sec to help my mother do something (she has cancer and sometimes she needs some stuff that literally takes 30 seconds but she can't do herself). The guy said sure. I go help my mother and literally 5 seconds later the guy removes the pause. When I come back literally less than a minute later I noticed and ask "why did you remove the pause" he says "you said 1 second, the second passed". Now THAT is being BM. Fortunately i quicked his stupid ass and won that game anyway, and then we queued into each other again two games later and kicked his stupid ass again. But yeah. I think if someone takes a while to come back you are in your right to unpause. I also have a 5 minute rule. Or when someone pauses withouth asking or giving reason I tell them "you need to tell me why you paused or I'm going to unpause now". And I've never had a problem. But like I mentioned previously, I've had problems with people BMing and unpausing, so I think pauses should last 30 seconds to 1 minute at least. Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7202 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote: Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. | ||
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Philippe
354 Posts
Unfair as it is, morals don't feed, results do. | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1201 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:48 Luolis wrote: Lets be real, if the 1-2 minutes you wait for someone's pause are too much for you because you're "busy", chances are that you probably shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either  | ||
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Luolis
Finland7202 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:59 TaKeTV wrote: If you cannot finish the game because the task you have to do is so urgent, you shouldn'T either With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... | ||
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
On November 23 2020 02:47 TaKeTV wrote: Strange take. You are searching for a game and agree to commit your time. The other person did too. Maybe that person is busy as hell and can only play 2 games per day cause they actually manage their time. Unpausing is probably not very nice but not allowing someone to pause should be absolutely not called bad mannered at all. Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" paused and left without waiting to see if the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruin someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. Though I agree if a person takes too long, you should be able to unpause. That's why I agree with OP's proposal. 30 seconds is a perfectly reasonable time. | ||
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Mizenhauer
United States1975 Posts
On November 23 2020 03:06 [Phantom] wrote: Is it really? The case I mention was a particularly egregious cause since he agreed to the pause only to get me AFK so he could unpause, so that's being as pathetic as a person can be. But let's say I just said "PP, back in 30 secs" and paused and left without waiting to see what the person agreed to the pause or not. Does waiting for 30 seconds really ruins someone's day? Are people really so busy they can't spare 30 seconds-1minute? The answer is no. For 99% of the cases waiting 30 seconds to two minutes will make absolutely no difference in your life. However in the case of the person who paused those 30 seconds could be really important. People mention that when you search for a ladder game you should be commiting that time, and I agree, but sudden an unexpected things happen, and that's a fact. Most of them take very little time to resolve, so I don't see why it would be bad to pause. The people unpausing are in my opinion being very BM because like I said, 30 seconds won't affect them at all, but IT WILL affect the game. They are unpausing to gain an advantage over their opponent, and 30 seconds to a minute being afk can have a big impact on the game. Let's be honest, the "respect my time" argument is invalid. It's not like you unpause and the game inmediately ends, you still need to kill your opponent, and chances are you won't be able to kill it inmediately, so you are still going to play from 3-5 minutes more depending on the state of the game and how long your opponent took to come back. So why unpause if you're still going to be in the game for a couple of minutes anyway? The only reason I can think of is becase you just want to gain an advantage over your opponent, which I find really sad. I don't know about other people, but at least for me I get no joy beating an AFK opponent. When an enemy disconnects or has to leave I feel disappointed. And hell, pauses are even good for me. I can take a moment to breathe, look really well at the minimap, see the supply, upgrades and think better what my next moves will be. So I really can't understand why anybody would say unpausing is not BM unless they just can't accept that what they are doing is BM. MMR is obviously more important than being courteous. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46722 Posts
On November 23 2020 03:02 Luolis wrote: With your logic no one should play turtle mech or for lategame since that too is wasting time that could be spent searching for another game... There is a difference between a game running long because of the actual gameplay, and a game running long because the opponent is afk and not actually playing. | ||
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