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On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote:Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett. It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible. - Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place. - If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place. Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/NA
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
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Germany339 Posts
On December 07 2020 16:00 sudete wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote:Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett. It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible. - Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place. - If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place. Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/NA The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair.
The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good:
- giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS
- letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings
This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based.
But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill).
With the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am not a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player not getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awesome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
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On December 08 2020 15:19 hjpalpha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2020 16:00 sudete wrote:On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote:Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett. It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible. - Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place. - If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place. Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/NA The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that. No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair. The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based. But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). With the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am not a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player not getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awesome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
http://aligulac.com/results/search/?search=&after=&before=&players=Lambo 4049
Probe 4120&event=&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=
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On December 08 2020 15:19 hjpalpha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2020 16:00 sudete wrote:On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote:Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett. It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible. - Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place. - If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place. Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/NA The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that. No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair. The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based. But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight.
It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
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On December 08 2020 15:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2020 15:19 hjpalpha wrote:On December 07 2020 16:00 sudete wrote:On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote:Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett. It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible. - Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place. - If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place. Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/NA The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that. No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair. The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based. But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo. The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight. It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
Yes.
We see the same System working in pretty much any other Major Sports event as well.
Fifa World Cup - the Spots are based on the contienent
Olympic games - some quotaa are based on world champs, some in continental championships
These Big events habe two goals, one is obviously determining the best competitor of the world, but the other one is giving every region a Chance to be in the spotlight, even just for a Brief Moment.
Thats why I firmly beliefe that Region locking has been a good thing in the past. And is good now as well. Because it gives lower regions a incentive to catch up. Like African countries in Football. Like oce in SC2. Like any non European Country besides China and USA at the olympic games.
World Championships with Players from 3 different countries are pretty meaningless to me, even if those are the top Players. It s meant to bring the whole world together.
I ve a background in a more traditonal Sport. Wider friends of meine have been at the olympic and I ve been competing at European and world championships as an amateur in an Non- Olympic Sport. So trust me on these analogies.
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Germany339 Posts
On December 08 2020 15:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers
The new system still does that with giving them spots to the global parts of the DHM Events. So i don't see any point in also giving them free seeds for IEM.
, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight.
I completely disagree. I want to see the best compete at the World Finals! I do not say OCE Players should have no option at all to qualify I just think maybe merging China, Asia and OCE regions and granting them 1 seed to Ro24 and 1-2 seeds to Ro36 together would be good. If then an OCE player is good enough that is fine, if not they just do not deserve to qualify.
It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
I was never a fan of the region lock. That being said within the region locked Circuit System all regions were already given an advantage over EU players because of how the Challenger System worked with granting Points and EU still managed to get 5 out of 8 seeds in 2019 and 2018 (which makes 62.5%, while in the new System EU gets only 41.2%). The orig. 2020 EPT rules had the charm that Koreans were able to qualify via the Circuit Standings too.
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Germany339 Posts
On December 08 2020 16:58 dbRic1203 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2020 15:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2020 15:19 hjpalpha wrote:On December 07 2020 16:00 sudete wrote:On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote:Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett. It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible. - Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place. - If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place. Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/NA The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that. No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair. The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based. But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo. The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight. It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans. Yes. We see the same System working in pretty much any other Major Sports event as well. Fifa World Cup - the Spots are based on the contienent Olympic games - some quotaa are based on world champs, some in continental championships These Big events habe two goals, one is obviously determining the best competitor of the world, but the other one is giving every region a Chance to be in the spotlight, even just for a Brief Moment. Thats why I firmly beliefe that Region locking has been a good thing in the past. And is good now as well. Because it gives lower regions a incentive to catch up. Like African countries in Football. Like oce in SC2. Like any non European Country besides China and USA at the olympic games. World Championships with Players from 3 different countries are pretty meaningless to me, even if those are the top Players. It s meant to bring the whole world together. I ve a background in a more traditonal Sport. Wider friends of meine have been at the olympic and I ve been competing at European and world championships as an amateur in an Non- Olympic Sport. So trust me on these analogies.
There are also many sports that use a point/earning based qualifying system to events with wild card spots from Open events. Sure I can understand that some prefer the system you described, I just prefer a completly performance based one.
Btw. if we are talking about FIFA: I think FIFA, that corrupt conglomerate, should be kicked out of existence.
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So NA Qualifies by winning....Nothing? Yeah thats not fair, they deserve more spots
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On December 08 2020 17:57 hjpalpha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2020 16:58 dbRic1203 wrote:On December 08 2020 15:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On December 08 2020 15:19 hjpalpha wrote:On December 07 2020 16:00 sudete wrote:On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote:Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett. It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible. - Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place. - If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place. Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed. https://liquipedia.net/starcraft2/ESL_Pro_Tour/2020/21/Masters/Winter/NA The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that. No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair. The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based. But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo. The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight. It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans. Yes. We see the same System working in pretty much any other Major Sports event as well. Fifa World Cup - the Spots are based on the contienent Olympic games - some quotaa are based on world champs, some in continental championships These Big events habe two goals, one is obviously determining the best competitor of the world, but the other one is giving every region a Chance to be in the spotlight, even just for a Brief Moment. Thats why I firmly beliefe that Region locking has been a good thing in the past. And is good now as well. Because it gives lower regions a incentive to catch up. Like African countries in Football. Like oce in SC2. Like any non European Country besides China and USA at the olympic games. World Championships with Players from 3 different countries are pretty meaningless to me, even if those are the top Players. It s meant to bring the whole world together. I ve a background in a more traditonal Sport. Wider friends of meine have been at the olympic and I ve been competing at European and world championships as an amateur in an Non- Olympic Sport. So trust me on these analogies. There are also many sports that use a point/earning based qualifying system to events with wild card spots from Open events. Sure I can understand that some prefer the system you described, I just prefer a completly performance based one. Btw. if we are talking about FIFA: I think FIFA, that corrupt conglomerate, should be kicked out of existence.
I just took Fifa as an example, because it s well known. I personally agree on your take on them as an orgainsation as well.
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Germany339 Posts
UPDATE
The following can also be found on Liquipedia at  User:CynicalDeath/sandbox/2. (The display varies a bit, but the information is the same as of 2020-12-10, we will update that page though!)
Mathematically qualified to the Ro24
KR- TY
- Rogue
- Maru
- Stats (possibly military???)
- INnoVation
- Trap
- Zest (possibly military???)
- Cure (Cure can theoretically still not qualify via the KR Standings, but in that case he is mathematically safe to qualify to the Ro24 via the Combined Standings.)
EULatAmCN
Mathematically qualified to the Ro36, but can still qualify to the Ro24
KR- PartinG
- Dark
- Solar
- DongRaeGu
- Armani
EUNA
Qualified to the Ro36
Asia
At the moment in a Ro36 seed and can still qualify to Ro24
KREUNA
At the moment in Ro36 seeds
KR- Dream
- Hurricane
- Bunny
- RagnaroK
EULatAmOC
Can (theoretically) still qualify
KR (only Koreans listed)
ByuN*, Zoun, Patience, TaeJa, Creator, Bomber, Prince, Spear, NaTuRal, Super, kiwian
EU
Lambo*, MaNa*, MarineLorD, PtitDrogo, SKillous, Gerald, Vanya, Denver, souL, Bly, Hellraiser, Harstem, Stephano
NA
Future
LatAm, CN and OC
Everyone from these regions can theoretically still qualify for the Ro36. But one is safe to assume that none of these players will achieve many points from the DHM Last Chance event nor win many ESL Open Cups, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
*: has a somewhat realistic chance
Combined Standings Shenanigans
Apart from several Koreans theoretically the following 3 players could also still qualify to the Ro24 via the Combined Standing Shenanigans:For more information take a look at our Combined Standings page: ESL Pro Tour/2020/21/Standings/Combined
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Since there is no LR thread yet
+ Show Spoiler +Protoss OP confirmed: Parting 3:0 TY Stats 3:2 Inno Trap 3:0 Maru Don't take it too serious 
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Damn, Bunny qualifying after wins over Byun and Maru, thats big
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Still disgusted by the fact that ST1 didnt yield points.
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On December 11 2020 03:32 Shathe wrote:
Still disgusted by the fact that ST1 didnt yield points.
Might have gotten Dark and Solar that Ro24 seed secured but other than that, I don't see any real changes?
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Germany339 Posts
On December 11 2020 17:52 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2020 03:32 Shathe wrote:
Still disgusted by the fact that ST1 didnt yield points. Might have gotten Dark and Solar that Ro24 seed secured but other than that, I don't see any real changes?
The orig rules had it so that everyone that played in ST1 would have gotten points, EXCEPT the top4, they were supposed to only get the invite to GSL S1
So for Dark and Solar it would have had a negative effect, not a positive one.
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On December 12 2020 01:21 hjpalpha wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2020 17:52 Harris1st wrote:On December 11 2020 03:32 Shathe wrote:
Still disgusted by the fact that ST1 didnt yield points. Might have gotten Dark and Solar that Ro24 seed secured but other than that, I don't see any real changes? The orig rules had it so that everyone that played in ST1 would have gotten points, EXCEPT the top4, they were supposed to only get the invite to GSL S1 So for Dark and Solar it would have had a negative effect, not a positive one.
Yeah, but the originall rules were the dumbest thing ever seen, so I gues Harris was referring to a "normal" standart, reasonable point allocation, similar to ST 2. IMO that would have been way way WAY better than both what is in place now and what was suggested first.. 
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On December 18 2020 19:15 hjpalpha wrote:For the Ro36 most is determined too. Only a few slots are still (theoretically) open: - Lambo can still (theoretically) overtake uThermal by winning all of the remaining ESL Open Cups (in all regions) that still give points.
- Zoun can still (theoretically) overtake Bunny by accumulating at least 105 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Bunny getting eliminated in the first Round of DHM Last Chance and not earning ESL Open Cup points.
- Cham can still (theoretically) overtake Kelazhur by accumulating at least 115 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Kelazhur not earning ESL Open Cup points.
- In the Oceania standings theoretically RiSky, EnDerr and Seither can still overtake Probe, but as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Probe most likely.
- In the China standings theoretically Jieshi, XY, MacSed and Silky can still overtake Cyan, but again as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Cyan most likely.
So except for the extremely unlikely scenario where Zoun wins almost all the open cups, the Last Chance tournament offers no last chances at all?
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On December 18 2020 19:43 Zzzapper wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2020 19:15 hjpalpha wrote:For the Ro36 most is determined too. Only a few slots are still (theoretically) open: - Lambo can still (theoretically) overtake uThermal by winning all of the remaining ESL Open Cups (in all regions) that still give points.
- Zoun can still (theoretically) overtake Bunny by accumulating at least 105 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Bunny getting eliminated in the first Round of DHM Last Chance and not earning ESL Open Cup points.
- Cham can still (theoretically) overtake Kelazhur by accumulating at least 115 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Kelazhur not earning ESL Open Cup points.
- In the Oceania standings theoretically RiSky, EnDerr and Seither can still overtake Probe, but as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Probe most likely.
- In the China standings theoretically Jieshi, XY, MacSed and Silky can still overtake Cyan, but again as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Cyan most likely.
So except for the extremely unlikely scenario where Zoun wins almost all the open cups, the Last Chance tournament offers no last chances at all?
thats ironic. I guess comes next Monday, when mathematical chances will no longer exist, the Last Chance will officially become the "Just play for money, bro" tournament
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Germany339 Posts
On December 18 2020 20:02 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2020 19:43 Zzzapper wrote:On December 18 2020 19:15 hjpalpha wrote:For the Ro36 most is determined too. Only a few slots are still (theoretically) open: - Lambo can still (theoretically) overtake uThermal by winning all of the remaining ESL Open Cups (in all regions) that still give points.
- Zoun can still (theoretically) overtake Bunny by accumulating at least 105 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Bunny getting eliminated in the first Round of DHM Last Chance and not earning ESL Open Cup points.
- Cham can still (theoretically) overtake Kelazhur by accumulating at least 115 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Kelazhur not earning ESL Open Cup points.
- In the Oceania standings theoretically RiSky, EnDerr and Seither can still overtake Probe, but as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Probe most likely.
- In the China standings theoretically Jieshi, XY, MacSed and Silky can still overtake Cyan, but again as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Cyan most likely.
So except for the extremely unlikely scenario where Zoun wins almost all the open cups, the Last Chance tournament offers no last chances at all? thats ironic. I guess comes next Monday, when mathematical chances will no longer exist, the Last Chance will officially become the "Just play for money, bro" tournament
Last Chance Qualifiers were significant regarding Qualification, the event itself will not change anything (because of how the Qualifiers went) regarding this. It might shuffle the standings a bit though (as in for the seeding during IEM) but it will not change who qualified.
Also CN and OC will not be mathematically determined on Monday (OC one week later and CN with the last set of ESL Open Cups that give points toward the 2020/21 Standings)
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EPT![[image loading]](https://preview.redd.it/cbivcon25x561.png?width=803&format=png&auto=webp&s=fecf10833ac3d249a4c7c48986c608b7dedb0341)
![[image loading]](https://preview.redd.it/wc3ibgxz4x561.png?width=665&format=png&auto=webp&s=640291f783608d6c0b42b8b6f8f29b6603e082d7)
