The 2020-21 season of the ESL Pro Tour is headed to its final act, and we have a good sense of which 36 players have accumulated enough EPT points to qualify for the Masters Championship at IEM Katowice 2021. However, things are still in flux toward the tail end of the rankings, and we might see a few Katowice spots change hands in the coming months.
As noted in the table above, the pandemic-adjusted EPT 2020-21 system awards IEM Katowice 2021 spots on a per-region basis. Only a player's point ranking within their own region matters in terms of qualification.
The Masters Championship at IEM Katowice 2021 is comprised of two stages: The RO36 "play-in" stage, and the RO24 main event. Top ranked players qualify directly for the RO24, while lower ranked players must begin the tournament in the RO36.
Five tournaments remain that can affect the EPT standings:
ASUS ROG Online (Nov 27-29, 2020): 1280 total points, 250 points for first place.
GSL Super Tournament II (Dec 2-12, 2020): 1590 Korean region points, 300 points for first place.
ESL Open Cups (every Monday until Jan 12, 2021): 315 total points, 210 maximum for one player.
A player competing in the non-Korean regions can amass up to an additional 1010 points (250 by winning ASUS ROG, 250 by winning TSL6, 300 by winning the last chance event and up to 210 points by winning all remaining ESL Open Cups in all 3 regions). A player competing in the Korean region can earn up to 1310 points, due to the GSL Super Tournament's additional 300 points for first place. Of course, one player winning all the aforementioned tournaments is extremely unlikely and only theoretically possible.
Let's break down the IEM Katowice qualification races by region.
The Korea region is awarded 10 RO24 spots, and another 8 seeds to the RO36. Here are the Korea standings at the time of writing:
*In the official ESL standings, non-Korean players are included in the Korean standings due to a technicality in the rules. Practically speaking, they are not part of the rankings as none of them will qualify for IEM Katowice 2021 via the Korean region. Non-Korean players have been removed from the above rankings graphic for clarity.
Mathematically confirmed on points and/or earned direct seeds to the Round of 24
TY (#1 - 2,927 points) We already knew TY had secured a seed when he won GSL Code S Season 1. TY then 'double-qualified' by winning a second Code S title in Season 3, and thus that extra RO24 spot goes to the next player down in the Korea standings.
Rogue (#2 - 2,545 points) Rogue was the first player to secure a IEM Katowice 2021 spot, earning a direct invite by winning IEM Katowice 2020. But Rogue also won GSL Code S Season 2, effectively double-qualifying for IEM Katowice. The additional RO24 spot goes to the next player down in the Korea standings (due to TY and Rogue earning multiple direct seeds via championships, the effective RO24 cutoff for Korea is 10th place).
Maru (#3 - 2,105 points) It is impossible for all the players in ranks 4-11 to overtake Maru at once, thus mathematically securing a RO24 spot for the Jin Air Terran. Maru earned most of his points with a 2nd place finish at GSL Season 3 and a 3rd-4th place finish at IEM Katowice 2020.
Realistically secured RO24 seeds
INnoVation (#4 - 1,985 points) There are some crazy, completely unrealistic scenarios where even INnoVation can't guarantee himself a Round of 24 seed. He basically has to not earn any more points, and all the players currently ranked 5-11 have to earn points in an exact distribution so they overtake INnoVation simultaneously.
Stats (#5 - 1,955 points) As Stats has almost the same number of points as INnoVation, the above holds for him as well. Stats' impending military service is a potential complication, depending on the exact timing of his enlistment.
Trap (#6 - 1,767 points) As with INnoVation and Stats, the scenarios in which Trap does not earn himself a Round of 24 seed are slim to none. It is marginally more probable than INnoVation or Stats not getting in, but still highly unlikely.
In a very good position for a Ro24 seed
Zest (#7 - 1,640 points) Zest is in a very good position to secure himself a Round of 24 seed. As with Stats, there is a possibility that Zest's pending military service will affect his eligibility. Neither player has spoken about this issue in detail.
Cure (#8 - 1,504 points) Like Zest, Cure is in a very good position to secure himself a Round of 24 seed. He has a head start of 469 points compared to Solar on rank 11.
On the hot seats for the Ro24 seeds
PartinG (#9 - 1,194 points) & Dark (#10 - 1,120 points) PartinG and Dark are on the hot seats in the Korea Region, as their lead over Solar (currently ranked 11 with 1,035 points) is small enough for them to be easily overtaken during the upcoming events. Should the "wildcard" RO24 spot convey to Korea as projected, these two players would gain a significant buffer for RO24 qualification.
In striking distance of Ro24 and with realistically secured Ro36 seeds
Solar (#11 - 1,035 points) & DongRaeGu (#12 - 940 points) & Armani (#13 - 880 points) In the Korea Region we have 3 players who have a very realistic shot at overtaking some of the current top 10 and hence achieving themselves a top 10 finish and a direct seed to the IEM Katowice 2021 Round of 24.
Fulfilling military service
Both Dear and soO would most likely have qualified for the Round of 36 with their current points, but as they are serving their mandatory military service at the time of IEM Katowice 2021, they are unable to compete.
Currently in the Ro36 ranks
sOs (#16 - 695 points) sOs has a good head start (of 267 points) and will most likely be able to secure himself a Ro36 seed.
Dream (#17 - 560 points) Dream is most likely also gonna make it with his head start of 132 point and the advantage of having a few ranks of breathing room.
Hurricane (#18 - 520 points) Hurricane is 92 points ahead of Zoun, he has a good shot at staying in the Ro36 seeds.
On the hot seats for the Ro36 seeds
RagnaroK (#19 - 498 points) RagnaroK has a 70 point advantage on Zoun, with still 3 global events, GSL ST2 and all these ESL Open Cups to happen he shouldn't feel too safe though.
Bunny (#20 - 458 points) Currently Bunny is the gatekeeper in the KR standings. He has a 30 point head start on Zoun, so he is in imminent danger of being overtaken.
In striking distance of Ro36 seeds
Zoun (#21 - 428 points) Zoun has a realistic shot at securing himself a Ro36 seed if he is able to perform well at the upcoming events.
Long shot chances
Patience (#22 - 335 points) For Patience, the chances are not that good as he has a 123 point disadvantage, but it is possible.
There are potential scenarios where the combination of the wildcard spot and the military service of Stats and Zest significantly impacts the lower end of the Korean rankings, which would help ensure Patience's RO36 spot while perhaps even bringing TaeJa and Creator into contention.
The European region is awarded 5 Round of 24 seeds and another 2 seeds to the Round of 36.
Mathematically secured seeds for the Round of 24
Reynor (#1 - 2,477 points) So far, Reynor has amassed the most points in the Europe region. He has by far more points than needed to secure himself a Round of 24 seed. Reynor's points mostly come from very good regional results (2 wins and a second place in the 3 regional EU events) and by winning the DHM Fall Season Finals.
Serral (#2 - 2,375 points) Even though this year Serral (currently) isn't the #1 of Europe he also has amassed more points than needed to secure himself a Round of 24 seed. Serral secured most of his points with good regional results, a 3rd-4th place at IEM Katowice and by winning the DHM Summer Season Finals
Clem (#3 - 1,927 points) Clem too has secured enough points to already earn himself a secured Ro24 seed. Clem's performance improved steadily over the year, resulting in his first win of a Premier tournament with DHM EU Winter.
Realistically secured Ro24 seed
HeRoMaRinE (#4 - 1,182 points) Big Gabe's head start to rank 6 in the EU Standings is 525 points, which seems big enough for him to secure himself a Ro24 seed in almost all reasonable scenarios. Of course it has to be pointed out that Gabe won a considerable portion of his points in the weekly EU ESL Open Cups (winning 20 out of 45 so far), to the point that they became known as the "Big Gabe Weekly" cups.
In a very good position for a Ro24 seed
ShoWTimE (#5 - 985 points) In the EU standings, ShoWTimE is in a very good position to defend his current 5th place rank with a head start of 293 points compared to uThermal at #6. In the pack of players behind Reynor-Serral-Clem, ShoWTimE is the only one to have qualified for ASUS ROG Online. Thus, he stands to further fortify the fifth place wall against his challengers.
In a good position for a Ro36 seed
uThermal (#6 - 657 points) uThermal has a head start of a bit more than 100 points compared to Lambo. This gives him some breathing room, but his seed is far from being secured as of now.
In the race for a Ro36 seed
Elazer (#7 - 599 points) Elazer is currently on the hot seat for the Ro36 seeds in the EU region. He has a 69 points head start compared to Lambo but he shouldn't feel safe with that. Neither player qualified for ASUS ROG, making TSL6 and DHM Last Chance crucial tournaments for both players.
Lambo (#8 - 530 points) Among the players who are not currently qualified for the RO36, Lambo has the best chance to earn a spot by the season's end. 69 points from global events is a difficult gap to make up, but the German Zerg might be up for the task.
With a chance for a Ro36 seed
MaNa (#9 - 499 points) MaNa is only 31 points behind Lambo, so he also has an outsider's chances of earning a RO36 spot at IEM.
MarineLorD (#10 - 495 points) As MLord only has 4 points less compared to MaNa, the same odds apply to him. With the point margins between Elazer, Lambo, MaNa, and MarineLord being so narrow, the weekly ESL Opens (10 points per win, 5 points per runner-up) could potentially play a decisive role in the standings.
The NA region is awarded 2 Round of 24 seeds and 1 seed to the Round of 36.
Realistically secured Ro24 seed
Astrea (#1 - 1,133 points) Astrea has a head start of 403 points on Scarlett (rank 3 in the NA Standings), which seems big enough for him to be awarded with a Ro24 seed in almost all reasonable scenarios.
In a very good position for a Ro24 seed
Neeb (#2 - 1044 points) Like ShoWTimE in the EU Standings, Neeb is in a very good position to defend his current 2nd rank in the NA Standings with a head start of 314 points compared to Scarlett on rank 3.
In a very good position for a Ro36 seed
Scarlett (#3 - 730 points) Scarlett's head start of 430 points will most likely be unreachable for Future (currently in rank 4 with 300 points), who will have to make multiple, deep playoff runs in the remaining events to steal 3rd place.
The Latin American region is awarded 1 Round of 24 seed and 1 seed to the Round of 36.
Mathematically secured seed for the Round of 24
SpeCial (#1 - 1,482 points) SpeCial has secured himself enough of a head start compared to Kelazhur (2nd place in the LatAm Standings) to already have a secured Ro24 seed, regardless of Kelazhur's performances in upcoming events.
In the race for a Ro36 seed
Kelazhur (#2 - 423 points) & Cham (#3 - 310 points) In the LatAm region Kelazhur and Cham will battle for the Round of 36 seed, with Kelazhur having a significant head start of 113 points.
The Chinese region is awarded 1 Round of 24 seed and another seed to the Round of 36.
Realistically secured Ro24 seed
TIME (#1 - 855 points) As with Big Gabe and Astrea, TIME too has a huge head start (695 points) on the first non Ro24-place player (Cyan at rank 2) in the Chinese standings.
In the race for a Ro36 seed
Cyan (#2 - 160 points) & Jieshi (#3 - 130 points) The race for the Ro36 seed of the China region will most likely be decided between Cyan (with a head start of 30 points) and Jieshi.
The TW/HK/MO/JP region is granted 2 seeds to the Round of 36.
Realistically secured Ro36 seeds
Nice (#1 - 727 points) & Has (#2 - 565 points) With the current 3rd place Rex only having 85 points this region's Ro36 seeds realistically seem to be determined.
The Oceania/Asia region is granted a single seed to the Round of 36.
Realistically secured Ro36 seed
Probe (#1 - 355 points) Given the historic performance of OCE players at global events in LotV, the regional standings will likely hold until Katowice, giving the regional seed to Probe.
Replacement spot: Cancelled global event
Prior to the global pandemic, a direct seed to the RO24 of IEM Katowice was planned to be awarded through a live, global-tier event. With this event being replaced by DHM: Last Chance, it appears that this spot will now be awarded to the RO36 qualified player with the largest sum of EPT points (regional + global points). The vacant RO36 spot of the 'promoted' player will be passed down to the next player in that specific region's rankings.
Considering the point totals for the players who are currently on the fringes of RO24 qualification, it appears highly likely that this final RO24 spot will convey to Korea.
Oddly enough TSL6 offers 20 fewer points than other similar events (Asus ROG Online, King of Battles) by virtue of the players in 9-12th place receiving 45 points rather than 50. All the other points awarded for making it to different rounds are equivalent. It's unlikely to matter, but the fact that this difference exists (for no apparent reason) is rather bemusing to me.
How does ESL decide which tournaments get which point structures?
On November 22 2020 06:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Oddly enough TSL6 offers 20 fewer points than other similar events (Asus ROG Online, King of Battles) by virtue of the players in 9-12th place receiving 45 points rather than 50. All the other points awarded for making it to different rounds are equivalent. It's unlikely to matter, but the fact that this difference exists (for no apparent reason) is rather bemusing to me.
How does ESL decide which tournaments get which point structures?
Just a wild guess, but maybe it is due to TSL5 already granting EPT points
On November 22 2020 06:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Oddly enough TSL6 offers 20 fewer points than other similar events (Asus ROG Online, King of Battles) by virtue of the players in 9-12th place receiving 45 points rather than 50. All the other points awarded for making it to different rounds are equivalent. It's unlikely to matter, but the fact that this difference exists (for no apparent reason) is rather bemusing to me.
How does ESL decide which tournaments get which point structures?
Just a wild guess, but maybe it is due to TSL5 already granting EPT points
TSL5 did have a slightly different point structure that even granted points to the Ro24 (probably because the tournament format was different), but I doubt that would justify shaving an insignificant amount of points off the Ro12 of TSL6 and leaving the rest of the points the same.
On November 22 2020 06:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Oddly enough TSL6 offers 20 fewer points than other similar events (Asus ROG Online, King of Battles) by virtue of the players in 9-12th place receiving 45 points rather than 50. All the other points awarded for making it to different rounds are equivalent. It's unlikely to matter, but the fact that this difference exists (for no apparent reason) is rather bemusing to me.
How does ESL decide which tournaments get which point structures?
Wich is eben Stranger, when taking in Account that the price pool for TSL is double of that from Asus Rog
With Zoun and Patience not qualifying for super Tournament, its hard to hype the race on the Korean side. Qualifyiers seem more interesting that actual tournaments now.
On November 22 2020 22:47 StarWars1 wrote: With Zoun and Patience not qualifying for super Tournament, its hard to hype the race on the Korean side. Qualifyiers seem more interesting that actual tournaments now.
im more intrigued by the army situation for zest and stats (which we've had precious little news about) :0
With military having to start before they turn 28, and Zest being born in July while Stats is born in May, their conscription is imminent. Stats only has April and March between turning 28 and IEM. That is not much time at all. Zest has 2 months more leeway, but the call can come at any moment.
On November 23 2020 18:33 Harris1st wrote: Do I understand it right that this extra spot goes to the highest points globaly? Solar with 1035 ahead of Scarlett with 730? uThermal with 657?
On November 23 2020 17:39 Drfilip wrote: With military having to start before they turn 28, and Zest being born in July while Stats is born in May, their conscription is imminent. Stats only has April and March between turning 28 and IEM. That is not much time at all. Zest has 2 months more leeway, but the call can come at any moment.
On November 23 2020 22:12 Poopi wrote: Is ByuN mathematically out of contention? If not what does he need to win to qualify
He's not mathematically out yet, but he's over 200 points behind a spot in the Ro36. Meaning he will have to make at least a few top 4s out of ASUS ROG, the Super Tournament, TSL and the DH Last Chance event.
On November 23 2020 22:12 Poopi wrote: Is ByuN mathematically out of contention? If not what does he need to win to qualify
He's not mathematically out yet, but he's over 200 points behind a spot in the Ro36. Meaning he will have to make at least a few top 4s out of ASUS ROG, the Super Tournament, TSL and the DH Last Chance event.
On November 23 2020 22:12 Poopi wrote: Is ByuN mathematically out of contention? If not what does he need to win to qualify
He's not mathematically out yet, but he's over 200 points behind a spot in the Ro36. Meaning he will have to make at least a few top 4s out of ASUS ROG, the Super Tournament, TSL and the DH Last Chance event.
This is not ByuNed impossible
Well the Super Tournament bracket isn't awful for him I'll say that.
On November 23 2020 22:12 Poopi wrote: Is ByuN mathematically out of contention? If not what does he need to win to qualify
He's not mathematically out yet, but he's over 200 points behind a spot in the Ro36. Meaning he will have to make at least a few top 4s out of ASUS ROG, the Super Tournament, TSL and the DH Last Chance event.
This is not ByuNed impossible
Well the Super Tournament bracket isn't awful for him I'll say that.
How many RO4s does he need? Because I don't see him repeating some fancy micro builds online multiple times and successfully. I can see 2 RO4s if he's a little bit lucky and creative.
On November 23 2020 22:12 Poopi wrote: Is ByuN mathematically out of contention? If not what does he need to win to qualify
He's not mathematically out yet, but he's over 200 points behind a spot in the Ro36. Meaning he will have to make at least a few top 4s out of ASUS ROG, the Super Tournament, TSL and the DH Last Chance event.
This is not ByuNed impossible
Well the Super Tournament bracket isn't awful for him I'll say that.
How many RO4s does he need? Because I don't see him repeating some fancy micro builds online multiple times and successfully. I can see 2 RO4s if he's a little bit lucky and creative.
Depends on how the other players do as well. I don't wanna do the full math but I think it could be theoretically enough if he gets Ro8s in those 4 events if Bunny and Ragnarok don't score big points. But you can't rely on that so the more good runs the better.
But this is assuming Stats and Zest don't get conscripted before Katowice which I find unlikely.
On November 23 2020 22:12 Poopi wrote: Is ByuN mathematically out of contention? If not what does he need to win to qualify
He's not mathematically out yet, but he's over 200 points behind a spot in the Ro36. Meaning he will have to make at least a few top 4s out of ASUS ROG, the Super Tournament, TSL and the DH Last Chance event.
This is not ByuNed impossible
Well the Super Tournament bracket isn't awful for him I'll say that.
How many RO4s does he need? Because I don't see him repeating some fancy micro builds online multiple times and successfully. I can see 2 RO4s if he's a little bit lucky and creative.
Hard to say, it all depends on Stats, Zest, the Korean military and where that extra seed goes.
if stats & zest are conscripted before iem and kr gets the extra seed he basically needs to keep creator behind him and get at least 45 points from now
if either stats or zest can play or the extra seed doesn't go to korea he has to overtake Patience too (100P)
if stats and zest can play or one of them and the extra seed not going to kr he also has to overtake Zoun too (190P)
if stats & zest can play and the extra seed doesn't go to korea then he needs to overtake Ragnarok also (260P)
keep in mind that all those players could qualify for tsl or the last chance thingy and get more points themselves too
On November 24 2020 13:18 SLCMemento wrote: Anyone know if Taeja is playing at all? Very surprised to not see his name in the recent ASUS ROG or Super Tournament qualifiers?
His last tournament match was played 3 months ago, pretty sure hes done for the season
Byun already passed in front of Creator and Taeja with Super Tournament qualification and Asus ROG RO8, 199 points to go to beat bunny and qualify to Katowice. Giant comeback incoming!
On November 28 2020 23:31 Totoro1 wrote: Byun already passed in front of Creator and Taeja with Super Tournament qualification and Asus ROG RO8, 199 points to go to beat bunny and qualify to Katowice. Giant comeback incoming!
25 points to go now Given his current level, I can't see him not making it. Hopefully, Bunny/Hurricane/Dream/Ragnarock can get some more points so we can get an exciting race.
25 points to go now Given his current level, I can't see him not making it. Hopefully, Bunny/Hurricane/Dream/Ragnarock can get some more points so we can get an exciting race.
If the additional seed goes to korea (highly likely) and showtime qualifies via eu (hell would need to freeze over for that not to happen) ByuN is as of now in a Ro36 seed.
He theoretically can even still directly qualify for Ro24 by winning 2 out of the 3 remaining events and scoring at least additional 205 points from the 3rd event combined with esl open cups.
On November 22 2020 20:44 hjpalpha wrote: UPDATE: With Inno and Stats qualifying to ST2 and PartinG not qualifying they now also secured their Ro24 seed.
Update: We now added an indicator who can still qualify and who can not to the Liquipedia standing pages. We will update that every morning. For EU and KR we basically will get updates with every match that gives EPT points, while NA, LA, CN and OC will probably only need an update after the DHM Last Chance Qualifiers concluded (and on Tuesdays the weeks after that). For TW all is decided, so no updates needed there.^^
Of course all that ignores the seed granted via the combined ranking shenanigans, because for those we do not know the rules.
Thanks for the update! It's not looking good for Lambo's chances to catch up with Elazer. He will have to finish higher than Elazer in one or two major tournaments, but looking at the bracket the chances of that happening in TSL 6 is slim to none.
On December 06 2020 17:58 JustPassingBy wrote: Thanks for the update! It's not looking good for Lambo's chances to catch up with Elazer. He will have to finish higher than Elazer in one or two major tournaments, but looking at the bracket the chances of that happening in TSL 6 is slim to none.
with Lambo being eliminated from TSL6 now ShoWTimE has qualified mathematically. (It will still take some weeks until his Ro24 seed is mathematically secured though)
On December 06 2020 08:03 hjpalpha wrote: Update: We now added an indicator who can still qualify and who can not to the Liquipedia standing pages. We will update that every morning. For EU and KR we basically will get updates with every match that gives EPT points, while NA, LA, CN and OC will probably only need an update after the DHM Last Chance Qualifiers concluded (and on Tuesdays the weeks after that). For TW all is decided, so no updates needed there.^^
Of course all that ignores the seed granted via the combined ranking shenanigans, because for those we do not know the rules.
pretty sure heyoka clarified that it's GSL points + global for Korea and EPT points + global for everyone else, meaning it's almost certainly going to Korea unless Scarlett wins Last Chance.
On December 06 2020 08:03 hjpalpha wrote: Update: We now added an indicator who can still qualify and who can not to the Liquipedia standing pages. We will update that every morning. For EU and KR we basically will get updates with every match that gives EPT points, while NA, LA, CN and OC will probably only need an update after the DHM Last Chance Qualifiers concluded (and on Tuesdays the weeks after that). For TW all is decided, so no updates needed there.^^
Of course all that ignores the seed granted via the combined ranking shenanigans, because for those we do not know the rules.
pretty sure heyoka clarified that it's GSL points + global for Korea and EPT points + global for everyone else, meaning it's almost certainly going to Korea unless Scarlett wins Last Chance.
Sinistro on that topic (3 days ago): "Details on the topic will be announced in the due time"
There are no combined ranking shenanigans, players have either their points from GSL or their points from EPT, whichever one is higher, and then anything global on top. Players cannot combine points from both sides, it's a ranking where the standing in one or the other is what counts.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
On December 07 2020 07:47 Heyoka wrote: There are no combined ranking shenanigans, players have either their points from GSL or their points from EPT, whichever one is higher, and then anything global on top. Players cannot combine points from both sides, it's a ranking where the standing in one or the other is what counts.
I still would call that a combined ranking, as it combines rankings from several regions and i would still call it shenanigans because i still think it is a pretty bad idea because it is not really comparable as it is easier to get points in certain regions compared to other regions. I know there is no good solution for it due to Covid but I still think this is one of the worst. Anyways I will still ignore that seed in the standings display as it still is theoretically possible for EU to get that seed, even though highly unlikely (probably KR will get its 19 seed ...). But we now created a page to display the combined rankings: ESL Pro Tour/2020/21/Standings/Combined
On December 07 2020 07:47 Heyoka wrote: There are no combined ranking shenanigans, players have either their points from GSL or their points from EPT, whichever one is higher, and then anything global on top. Players cannot combine points from both sides, it's a ranking where the standing in one or the other is what counts.
Nice to see that this dumb combined Rankings stop now. Special got invited to TSL and ASUS ROG based on combined Rankings instead of Gabe or Showtime. He even had relativly easy seeds (Group of life and a non- Korean respectivly) and still got last place (13 -16 and 17-32) in both events. Imo that Shows, it s a bad seeding process. I agree with hjp in that regard, that it s substantially easier to get points in some regions, compared to others. Also noteable is that Korea has 5 events, while the Rest of the world has only 3.
On December 07 2020 07:47 Heyoka wrote: There are no combined ranking shenanigans, players have either their points from GSL or their points from EPT, whichever one is higher, and then anything global on top. Players cannot combine points from both sides, it's a ranking where the standing in one or the other is what counts.
Nice to see that this dumb combined Rankings stop now. Special got invited to TSL and ASUS ROG based on combined Rankings instead of Gabe or Showtime. He even had relativly easy seeds (Group of life and a non- Korean respectivly) and still got last place (13 -16 and 17-32) in both events. Imo that Shows, it s a bad seeding process. I agree with hjp in that regard, that it s substantially easier to get points in some regions, compared to others. Also noteable is that Korea has 5 events, while the Rest of the world has only 3.
GSL ST1 gave no pts, so i would say 4 events and not 5
Also I think you missunderstood, they still use combined rankings, they just do not want them called "combined ranking shenanigans" (as i understood it) and wanted to clarify that players can not earn pts from several regions to the combined rankings but just from 1 region (plus global pts).
On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote: Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote: Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair.
The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based.
But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). With the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am not a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player not getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awesome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote: Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair.
The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based.
But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). With the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am not a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player not getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awesome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote: Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair.
The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based.
But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight.
It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote: Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair.
The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based.
But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight.
It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
Yes. We see the same System working in pretty much any other Major Sports event as well. Fifa World Cup - the Spots are based on the contienent Olympic games - some quotaa are based on world champs, some in continental championships
These Big events habe two goals, one is obviously determining the best competitor of the world, but the other one is giving every region a Chance to be in the spotlight, even just for a Brief Moment.
Thats why I firmly beliefe that Region locking has been a good thing in the past. And is good now as well. Because it gives lower regions a incentive to catch up. Like African countries in Football. Like oce in SC2. Like any non European Country besides China and USA at the olympic games.
World Championships with Players from 3 different countries are pretty meaningless to me, even if those are the top Players. It s meant to bring the whole world together.
I ve a background in a more traditonal Sport. Wider friends of meine have been at the olympic and I ve been competing at European and world championships as an amateur in an Non- Olympic Sport. So trust me on these analogies.
On December 08 2020 15:44 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers
The new system still does that with giving them spots to the global parts of the DHM Events. So i don't see any point in also giving them free seeds for IEM.
, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight.
I completely disagree. I want to see the best compete at the World Finals! I do not say OCE Players should have no option at all to qualify I just think maybe merging China, Asia and OCE regions and granting them 1 seed to Ro24 and 1-2 seeds to Ro36 together would be good. If then an OCE player is good enough that is fine, if not they just do not deserve to qualify.
It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
I was never a fan of the region lock. That being said within the region locked Circuit System all regions were already given an advantage over EU players because of how the Challenger System worked with granting Points and EU still managed to get 5 out of 8 seeds in 2019 and 2018 (which makes 62.5%, while in the new System EU gets only 41.2%). The orig. 2020 EPT rules had the charm that Koreans were able to qualify via the Circuit Standings too.
On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote: Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair.
The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based.
But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight.
It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
Yes. We see the same System working in pretty much any other Major Sports event as well. Fifa World Cup - the Spots are based on the contienent Olympic games - some quotaa are based on world champs, some in continental championships
These Big events habe two goals, one is obviously determining the best competitor of the world, but the other one is giving every region a Chance to be in the spotlight, even just for a Brief Moment.
Thats why I firmly beliefe that Region locking has been a good thing in the past. And is good now as well. Because it gives lower regions a incentive to catch up. Like African countries in Football. Like oce in SC2. Like any non European Country besides China and USA at the olympic games.
World Championships with Players from 3 different countries are pretty meaningless to me, even if those are the top Players. It s meant to bring the whole world together.
I ve a background in a more traditonal Sport. Wider friends of meine have been at the olympic and I ve been competing at European and world championships as an amateur in an Non- Olympic Sport. So trust me on these analogies.
There are also many sports that use a point/earning based qualifying system to events with wild card spots from Open events. Sure I can understand that some prefer the system you described, I just prefer a completly performance based one.
Btw. if we are talking about FIFA: I think FIFA, that corrupt conglomerate, should be kicked out of existence.
On December 07 2020 09:01 warnull wrote: Well that's unfortunate for Scarlett.
It's also unfortunate that the combined ranking shenanigans is what prevented Scarlett from qualifying to Ro24 in the first place. The DH Winter NA groups were seeded via the combined ranking, which artificially inflated Scarlett's seed and deflated Neeb's seed, resulting in Scarlett playing vs Neeb earlier in the playoffs than otherwise possible.
- Using the combined ranking, Scarlett was seeded into one group, and Neeb into the other. This resulted in Scarlett meeting Neeb in the semifinals. Scarlett lost that match, and again vs Neeb in the lower bracket finals, finishing in 3rd place.
- If the correct ranking were used, Scarlett and Neeb would have been seeded into the same group. The playoff bracket structure ensures that Scarlett would not meet Neeb in the semifinals. If we assume Scarlett wins every Bo5 against players other than Neeb, then regardless of her result vs Neeb, Scarlett would finish the tournament in at least second place.
Scarlett winning 1st or 2nd in DH Winter NA would have given her enough points to secure a Ro24 seed.
The big problem here is assuming that Scarlett necessarily wins "every bo5 against players other than Neeb". Even if she dodges Neeb until the finals, what makes us know for sure that she won't lose to Astrea before that? She did win the bo7 against Astrea during the previous NA final but lost the last 2 Bo5 prior to that.
No the Problem is that this years EPT Rules are pretty unfair.
The original plans that ESL/DH had for EPT were pretty good: - giving points only at the offline events and ESL Open Cups and not at Challenger events like in WCS - letting Global points from Koreans also count in the foreigner Standings This most likely would have resulted in 10+ EU players, 20+ KR players, 3-4 NA/LatAm and 1 Chinese players qualifying. It would have been fair and performance based.
But Covid happened and ESL had to switch to a way worse System with regional divisions and a lot of Cross-Server play. Even though there basically was no other way it still is a very bad system compared to the orig. plans. On top of that i think they could have done a way better job with the prize pool and seed allocations (aka giving the lower regions like e.g. OC less money and way less seeds to Katowice 2021 because these regions do not have players that should compete at Katowice 2021 based on their skill). Woth the current system we have a player like Lambo (and i am nit a fan of his, just using him as an example because he will most likely be the best player nit getting a seed to IEM) probably not qualifying while a player like Probe will qualify. Probe might be a pretty awsome person (from what i heard), but skillwise he is years away from Lambo.
The system doesn't have the sole goal of getting the 36 best players to Katowice (determining who the 36 best players are given covid is pretty difficult but that's besides the point)--it also has the goal of supporting local scenes. The original system helped local scenes through allocation of Masters tournament qualifiers, with this system it helps local scenes partly through seeds to Katowice. You might not like it, but giving Oceania one Ro36 seed and giving players from SEA something to aim for adds more value to the SCII scene than giving that seed to European number eight.
It's all very well to call for a "fair and performance based" system, but let's not forget that it's Europeans that have disproportionately benefited from years of region-locking away Korean players. It's a bit hypocritical to call for a purely performance-based system as soon as promoting local scenes is no longer advantageous for Europeans.
Yes. We see the same System working in pretty much any other Major Sports event as well. Fifa World Cup - the Spots are based on the contienent Olympic games - some quotaa are based on world champs, some in continental championships
These Big events habe two goals, one is obviously determining the best competitor of the world, but the other one is giving every region a Chance to be in the spotlight, even just for a Brief Moment.
Thats why I firmly beliefe that Region locking has been a good thing in the past. And is good now as well. Because it gives lower regions a incentive to catch up. Like African countries in Football. Like oce in SC2. Like any non European Country besides China and USA at the olympic games.
World Championships with Players from 3 different countries are pretty meaningless to me, even if those are the top Players. It s meant to bring the whole world together.
I ve a background in a more traditonal Sport. Wider friends of meine have been at the olympic and I ve been competing at European and world championships as an amateur in an Non- Olympic Sport. So trust me on these analogies.
There are also many sports that use a point/earning based qualifying system to events with wild card spots from Open events. Sure I can understand that some prefer the system you described, I just prefer a completly performance based one.
Btw. if we are talking about FIFA: I think FIFA, that corrupt conglomerate, should be kicked out of existence.
I just took Fifa as an example, because it s well known. I personally agree on your take on them as an orgainsation as well.
The following can also be found on Liquipedia at User:CynicalDeath/sandbox/2. (The display varies a bit, but the information is the same as of 2020-12-10, we will update that page though!)
Mathematically qualified to the Ro24
KR
TY
Rogue
Maru
Stats (possibly military???)
INnoVation
Trap
Zest (possibly military???)
Cure (Cure can theoretically still not qualify via the KR Standings, but in that case he is mathematically safe to qualify to the Ro24 via the Combined Standings.)
EU
Reynor
Serral
Clem
LatAm
SpeCial
CN
TIME
Mathematically qualified to the Ro36, but can still qualify to the Ro24
KR
PartinG
Dark
Solar
DongRaeGu
Armani
EU
Big Gabe
ShoWTimE
NA
Astrea
Neeb
Qualified to the Ro36
Asia
Nice
Has
At the moment in a Ro36 seed and can still qualify to Ro24
LatAm, CN and OC Everyone from these regions can theoretically still qualify for the Ro36. But one is safe to assume that none of these players will achieve many points from the DHM Last Chance event nor win many ESL Open Cups, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
*: has a somewhat realistic chance
Combined Standings Shenanigans Apart from several Koreans theoretically the following 3 players could also still qualify to the Ro24 via the Combined Standing Shenanigans:
On December 11 2020 03:32 Shathe wrote: Still disgusted by the fact that ST1 didnt yield points.
Might have gotten Dark and Solar that Ro24 seed secured but other than that, I don't see any real changes?
The orig rules had it so that everyone that played in ST1 would have gotten points, EXCEPT the top4, they were supposed to only get the invite to GSL S1
So for Dark and Solar it would have had a negative effect, not a positive one.
On December 11 2020 03:32 Shathe wrote: Still disgusted by the fact that ST1 didnt yield points.
Might have gotten Dark and Solar that Ro24 seed secured but other than that, I don't see any real changes?
The orig rules had it so that everyone that played in ST1 would have gotten points, EXCEPT the top4, they were supposed to only get the invite to GSL S1
So for Dark and Solar it would have had a negative effect, not a positive one.
Yeah, but the originall rules were the dumbest thing ever seen, so I gues Harris was referring to a "normal" standart, reasonable point allocation, similar to ST 2. IMO that would have been way way WAY better than both what is in place now and what was suggested first..
As you can see in the below attached Screenshot we now have mathematically secured the Ro24 seeds (all under the assumption Zest and Stats can play of course), including the extra Seed from the Combined Standings that goes (as expected) to the Koreans.
For the Ro36 most is determined too. Only a few slots are still (theoretically) open:
Lambo can still (theoretically) overtake uThermal by winning all of the remaining ESL Open Cups (in all regions) that still give points.
Zoun can still (theoretically) overtake Bunny by accumulating at least 105 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Bunny getting eliminated in the first Round of DHM Last Chance and not earning ESL Open Cup points.
Cham can still (theoretically) overtake Kelazhur by accumulating at least 115 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Kelazhur not earning ESL Open Cup points.
In the Oceania standings theoretically RiSky, EnDerr and Seither can still overtake Probe, but as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Probe most likely.
In the China standings theoretically Jieshi, XY, MacSed and Silky can still overtake Cyan, but again as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Cyan most likely.
So after the next set of ESL Open Cups uThermal, Bunny and Kelazhur will (most likely) have mathematically secured their Ro36 seed and there will only be 2 remaining open slots (CN & OC), which are (most likely) gifted to Probe and Cyan.
As always you can find more information on Liquipedia:
On December 18 2020 19:15 hjpalpha wrote: For the Ro36 most is determined too. Only a few slots are still (theoretically) open:
Lambo can still (theoretically) overtake uThermal by winning all of the remaining ESL Open Cups (in all regions) that still give points.
Zoun can still (theoretically) overtake Bunny by accumulating at least 105 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Bunny getting eliminated in the first Round of DHM Last Chance and not earning ESL Open Cup points.
Cham can still (theoretically) overtake Kelazhur by accumulating at least 115 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Kelazhur not earning ESL Open Cup points.
In the Oceania standings theoretically RiSky, EnDerr and Seither can still overtake Probe, but as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Probe most likely.
In the China standings theoretically Jieshi, XY, MacSed and Silky can still overtake Cyan, but again as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Cyan most likely.
So except for the extremely unlikely scenario where Zoun wins almost all the open cups, the Last Chance tournament offers no last chances at all?
On December 18 2020 19:15 hjpalpha wrote: For the Ro36 most is determined too. Only a few slots are still (theoretically) open:
Lambo can still (theoretically) overtake uThermal by winning all of the remaining ESL Open Cups (in all regions) that still give points.
Zoun can still (theoretically) overtake Bunny by accumulating at least 105 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Bunny getting eliminated in the first Round of DHM Last Chance and not earning ESL Open Cup points.
Cham can still (theoretically) overtake Kelazhur by accumulating at least 115 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Kelazhur not earning ESL Open Cup points.
In the Oceania standings theoretically RiSky, EnDerr and Seither can still overtake Probe, but as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Probe most likely.
In the China standings theoretically Jieshi, XY, MacSed and Silky can still overtake Cyan, but again as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Cyan most likely.
So except for the extremely unlikely scenario where Zoun wins almost all the open cups, the Last Chance tournament offers no last chances at all?
thats ironic. I guess comes next Monday, when mathematical chances will no longer exist, the Last Chance will officially become the "Just play for money, bro" tournament
On December 18 2020 19:15 hjpalpha wrote: For the Ro36 most is determined too. Only a few slots are still (theoretically) open:
Lambo can still (theoretically) overtake uThermal by winning all of the remaining ESL Open Cups (in all regions) that still give points.
Zoun can still (theoretically) overtake Bunny by accumulating at least 105 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Bunny getting eliminated in the first Round of DHM Last Chance and not earning ESL Open Cup points.
Cham can still (theoretically) overtake Kelazhur by accumulating at least 115 points from the remaining ESL Open Cups (120 theoretically possible) and Kelazhur not earning ESL Open Cup points.
In the Oceania standings theoretically RiSky, EnDerr and Seither can still overtake Probe, but as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Probe most likely.
In the China standings theoretically Jieshi, XY, MacSed and Silky can still overtake Cyan, but again as none of these players is likely to earn any points from ESL Open Cups and none of them qualified for DHM Last Chance this seed will go to Cyan most likely.
So except for the extremely unlikely scenario where Zoun wins almost all the open cups, the Last Chance tournament offers no last chances at all?
thats ironic. I guess comes next Monday, when mathematical chances will no longer exist, the Last Chance will officially become the "Just play for money, bro" tournament
Last Chance Qualifiers were significant regarding Qualification, the event itself will not change anything (because of how the Qualifiers went) regarding this. It might shuffle the standings a bit though (as in for the seeding during IEM) but it will not change who qualified.
Also CN and OC will not be mathematically determined on Monday (OC one week later and CN with the last set of ESL Open Cups that give points toward the 2020/21 Standings)
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/EPT/qualificationtable.png)
Korea Standings![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/a/ae/EPT_Standings_2020-11-17_KR.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/9/9d/Ticon_small.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/c/c9/Zicon_small.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/a/ab/Picon_small.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/7/7b/EPT_Standings_2020-11-17_EU.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/e/e8/EPT_Standings_2020-11-17_NA.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/3/31/EPT_Standings_2020-11-17_LatAm.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/5/52/EPT_Standings_2020-11-17_CN.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/f/f5/EPT_Standings_2020-11-17_Asia.png)
![[image loading]](https://liquipedia.net/commons/images/8/8a/EPT_Standings_2020-11-17_OC.png)
Given his current level, I can't see him not making it. Hopefully, Bunny/Hurricane/Dream/Ragnarock can get some more points so we can get an exciting race. 
![[image loading]](https://preview.redd.it/cbivcon25x561.png?width=803&format=png&auto=webp&s=fecf10833ac3d249a4c7c48986c608b7dedb0341)
![[image loading]](https://preview.redd.it/wc3ibgxz4x561.png?width=665&format=png&auto=webp&s=640291f783608d6c0b42b8b6f8f29b6603e082d7)
