Everything wrong with SC2 (and how to fix it) - Page 4

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dUTtrOACh

Canada2339 Posts

October 09 2020 19:29 GMT

#61

On October 10 2020 04:21 Tyrhanius wrote:

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On October 10 2020 03:01 dUTtrOACh wrote:

On October 10 2020 02:19 Tyrhanius wrote:
The biggest problem is about Zerg they nerfed so much stuff you don't have any options (and you never had a lot before), you are forced into few strategies, it's all about knowing how to scout what the other is doing, knowing how to react, and excecute it as perfectly as possible.

With P/T it's different they have multiple options, and they choose a playstyle they like without being forced to master them all

The onl way to have fun as Zerg is to offrace sometimes, else you get so bored.

I'm not convinced about your assertion that Zerg lacks options, or that they have been nerfed into uselessness. Zerg actually have many options, and the ability to produce those options on a huge scale. They have a good variety of answers to single problems, too.

The ground army can basically teleport between locations (nydus) at lair tech; that's pretty fucking sick. In BW, you not only needed a hive, but needed to construct the exit at a location that already had creep, and you were limited to one exit per nydus. Nydus was still good in BW; in SC2 it's outrageously better.

I'm pretty sure that Zerg are the only race with some units that fall into the category of "neither armored, nor light". These units (Ravagers, Queens, Banelings) are staples of a robust composition, because there really isn't a hard counter to them other than archons, disruptors, ghosts and flying units for those that can't hit air (archons are pretty terrible against ravagers and not spectacular against queens due to their AoE's restricted radius). Note the tier of these units.

I would bet that the main reason many Zerg players struggle is their own inability to create and control an appropriately complex unit composition to battle their opponent's diverse composition, because the temptation to spam one unit is far too great.

EDIT: Overseers and overlords are also neither armored nor light, but are not really combat units. Frankly, overseers always seemed to me like a stupid change from BW; Zerg already had detection in all their overlords. I'm not the biggest fan of the droplord change, but I'm sure there were reasons.

You decide to defend until 3 bases saturation or what ? random cheeses ?

You have the choice between quens/lings or ?

Nyndus ?! Or it's the dirtiest all-in or you can't plan to make it before 10min.

With T with a single 1/1/1 you want 5+ different combinaisons, you have so much different playstyle/BO that are viable

With P you can go robot, stargate, oracl pheonix, skytoss, DT, blink.

With Z, you're like "Well burrow seems cool what about doing some fast burrow thing ? Ah no, i can't, it's 100% trolling. Oh yeah they even nerfed burrow movement for roach, like it was an issue..."

No just drone, wait until 9min to be allowed to start to do something that is different than the last game.

Well, that's your take on it. You could always try to mix in some lower economy plays. 3 base saturation is literally 66 drones, plus buildings and static defenses (more drones). If you think greed of that magnitude shouldn't be punishable, I don't know what to tell you.

EDIT: Zerg in BW is able to function and survive on lower supply (but not lower base count) than either T/P. Making units in BW is IMO far more of a commitment than it is in SC2 and each drone you lose is a much more massive loss.

Sturmgott

1 Post

July 08 2022 18:32 GMT

#62

My main "complaint" is that the fun is being sucked out of the game.

One reason could be players greeting other players with stuff like "DIE C%&T DIE!!" at the start of games in reply to "glhf", like you do.

_fool

Netherlands682 Posts

July 08 2022 18:52 GMT

#63

On July 09 2022 03:32 Sturmgott wrote:

Show nested quote +

One reason could be players greeting other players with stuff like "DIE C%&T DIE!!" at the start of games in reply to "glhf", like you do.

Solid first post. Welcome to TL >_<

renaissanceMAN

United States1840 Posts

July 08 2022 19:09 GMT

#64

why

Mutaller

United States1051 Posts

July 08 2022 19:32 GMT

#65

On July 09 2022 03:32 Sturmgott wrote:

Show nested quote +

One reason could be players greeting other players with stuff like "DIE C%&T DIE!!" at the start of games in reply to "glhf", like you do.

SC2 only really has peepmode, but join a clan or something and play customs. If you just play ladder you are going against strangers with their only goal is to kill you. A friend, clan mate, or a practice partner is more likely to be nice and even play nice against you. You can ask them to do the cheese you always lose to so you can practice it, or if you guys want to play a macro game you can both open greedy. SC2's infrastructure is based around 1v1 ladder, but really find a discord, make some connections and play with people

BlackLilium

Poland426 Posts

July 08 2022 20:51 GMT

#66

I am thinking about creating a redesign mod and it goes... exactly against what you suggest

I mean, I was thinking - what if expanding was fast and cheap, but each base contributes less to your economy. So - the goal of the first 6 minutes would be to set up 6 mining bases while trying to stop the opponent of doing the same. Also add that bases can never be fully mined out.

Not going for 6 bases would be a mistake (not a choice), but how you do it and where exactly you expand is what matters.

And why? Because I think matches in general are much more interesting if they take place over the whole map, rather than in one or two bases. So I would like to turn the game more into land-grab. The more land you control, the better your economy is.