EPTReynor defeats Serral to win Douyu Cup 2020 - Page 3
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Argonauta
Spain4954 Posts
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La1
United Kingdom659 Posts
if you had a 9 map pool the maps you used in the winner bracket would be carried over to the grand final and the grand final would start with the score of the WB final. This keeps the WB advantage and means you only play the same person on each map once. If they used that for this tournament it would be Goldenwall - S - WB Deathaura - S - WB Pillars - R - WB Submarine - S - WB Everdream - R - GF Eternal empire - S - GF It seems dumb to have the same maps in the final as the WB final as you may as well not use your best strat in the WB final knowing you may have to play the same person on the same map in the "grand final" For those saying the 2 game final would suck yes.. but normally if you have a BO5 Semi you have a BO11 final. The map pool for SC doesn't really work with this design. Anyway i agree with everybody else, its dumb that serral lost 1 match in a double elim tournament and was eliminated. really poor design. | ||
Poopi
France12904 Posts
On August 15 2020 20:43 Argonauta wrote: Refreshing that for this tournament results no one is balance whining about how OP is zerg. The obvious doesn’t need to be said | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
Only in the case ZvP. Anyone who thinks Zerg still has a strong upper hand in ZvT needs a reality check. Protoss' extreme lategame weakness vs zerg is by far the most broken aspect of SC2. Bliz should prioritize this fix before doing anything else. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7136 Posts
On August 15 2020 20:53 tigon_ridge wrote: Anyone who thinks Zerg still has a strong upper hand in ZvT needs a reality check. Not a strong upper hand but it's definitely atleast a bit zerg favored. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On August 15 2020 20:57 Luolis wrote: Not a strong upper hand but it's definitely atleast a bit zerg favored. I'm seeing the opposite is true. Reynor and Serral's results should be considered outliers in any balance discussion. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4954 Posts
On August 15 2020 21:26 tigon_ridge wrote: I'm seeing the opposite is true. Reynor and Serral's results should be considered outliers in any balance discussion. and Rogue and Dark's ones too. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4954 Posts
On August 15 2020 20:53 tigon_ridge wrote: Only in the case ZvP. Anyone who thinks Zerg still has a strong upper hand in ZvT needs a reality check. Protoss' extreme lategame weakness vs zerg is by far the most broken aspect of SC2. Bliz should prioritize this fix before doing anything else. There were a bunch of ZvPs in this tournament. | ||
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LTCM
174 Posts
And SoO's tournament win as well. Cannot count that either. | ||
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JJH777
United States4414 Posts
On August 15 2020 21:26 tigon_ridge wrote: I'm seeing the opposite is true. Reynor and Serral's results should be considered outliers in any balance discussion. What about all the best Terrans in GSL getting destroyed by DRG and Rogue despite that format supposedly being better for T players? | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On August 15 2020 23:44 JJH777 wrote: What about all the best Terrans in GSL getting destroyed by DRG and Rogue despite that format supposedly being better for T players? That GSL's long format favors T is a presumption, not a fact. Did you not watch how DRG displayed some of the most masterful ZvT to date against Inno? Why base your conclusion on a single tournament, anyhow? Dream is not comparable to Rogue in skill, stop. | ||
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Poopi
France12904 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On August 16 2020 00:41 Poopi wrote: This is some high level denial, congratulations Denying some people's baseless opinions doesn't require much effort, honestly, but thanks. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On August 16 2020 00:23 tigon_ridge wrote: That GSL's long format favors T is a presumption, not a fact. Did you not watch how DRG displayed some of the most masterful ZvT to date against Inno? Why base your conclusion on a single tournament, anyhow? Dream is not comparable to Rogue in skill, stop. Ohh that is so interesting, you criticize his conclusion because his opinion is only based off of the results of the recent tournament. Great I am looking forward to you presenting the base for your opinion, which I am sure is well founded on the results of the most recent 5 tournaments statistics and how the results are showing terran is doing better in in TvZ. If you want to say the basis of his opinion is lacking how about presenting the basis if your own, if it isn't just "gut feeling" that is. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On August 16 2020 01:16 Shuffleblade wrote: Ohh that is so interesting, you criticize his conclusion because his opinion is only based off of the results of the recent tournament. Great I am looking forward to you presenting the base for your opinion, which I am sure is well founded on the results of the most recent 5 tournaments statistics and how the results are showing terran is doing better in in TvZ. If you want to say the basis of his opinion is lacking how about presenting the basis if your own, if it isn't just "gut feeling" that is. I didn't criticize his conclusion, I criticized his argument. I can't criticize someone's argument, if I don't argue my own stance? What logic is this? | ||
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JJH777
United States4414 Posts
On August 16 2020 00:23 tigon_ridge wrote: That GSL's long format favors T is a presumption, not a fact. Did you not watch how DRG displayed some of the most masterful ZvT to date against Inno? Why base your conclusion on a single tournament, anyhow? Dream is not comparable to Rogue in skill, stop. It's not 1 tournament. It's every tournament this year besides GSL season 1. DRG also beat TY and Solar beat Maru there. The season finals and douyo cup were also not pretty on the TvZ front. The one time the top Zergs either weren't there or eliminated each other in ZvZ was at TSL and soO won the event beating Inno to do so. No matter how many Zergs you knock out another always shows up to either make the finals or win. IEM only had 2 Terrans in the top 12 and they both lost to Zergs. Those series were close but after so many losses Terran (and Protoss) need more than close series. | ||
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slant
Romania95 Posts
On August 16 2020 00:41 Poopi wrote: This is some high level denial, congratulations Evolved from criticism of the tournament format into balance whine, truly a community of intellectuals. | ||
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tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On August 16 2020 01:28 JJH777 wrote: It's not 1 tournament. It's every tournament this year besides GSL season 1. DRG also beat TY and Solar beat Maru there. The season finals and douyo cup were also not pretty on the TvZ front. The one time the top Zergs either weren't there or eliminated each other in ZvZ was at TSL and soO won the event beating Inno to do so. No matter how many Zergs you knock out another always shows up to either make the finals or win. IEM only had 2 Terrans in the top 12 and they both lost to Zergs. Those series were close but after so many losses Terran (and Protoss) need more than close series. So now it's every tournament this year. Okay. Map statistics:  ESL Pro Tour/2020/21/Masters/Summer/StatisticsESL Pro Tour/2020/21/Masters/Summer/CNIEM Katowice/2020/StatisticsTeamLiquid StarLeague/5/StatisticsOr, do only playoffs stats matter to you? Serious question, because playoffs alone are a very small sample size, which makes making statistical conclusions out of them highly questionable. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On August 16 2020 01:25 tigon_ridge wrote: I didn't criticize his conclusion, I criticized his argument. I can't criticize someone's argument, if I don't argue my own stance? What logic is this? That is how a discussion works, if we are discussing a particular idea/opinion, hopefully with the goal of reaching a consensus or at the very least broaden our perspective on the idea/opinion everyone needs to take part. Simply shooting down someones opinion is not genuinely adding anything to the discussion. If I for example would say that it is my opinion is X and that is supported by a scientific study that were made on 5000 thousand people three years ago. Simply saying "that study is too small for you to have that opinion" is not arguing in good faith, if you believe the opposite do you have any basis for that opinion? Do you have study(research of recent tournament results for TvZ) or any other basis for your opinion that X isn't true? If not you are not really adding anything to this discussion at all. Just sitting there grumpily disagreeing with everyone else because they don't have enough "evidence" to convince you while not presenting any evidence of your own is only derailing the discussion. Instead of saying why we are wrong how about trying to tell us why you are right. Edit: Seems you did that already =D Will take a look! | ||
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