The saga of Reynor and Serral saw another chapter unfold in the online Douyu Cup, with Reynor taking a 4-1 grand finals victory over his rival to claim the first place prize of ¥50,000 CNY (~$7,199 USD). The victory marked Reynor's second finals win against Serral on the year, with the Italian Zerg having previously defeated Serral in July's DreamHack Europe finals.
Similar to the DreamHack Europe finals, Reynor had to climb up to the Douyu Cup grand finals from the losers bracket, having ceded an earlier match to Serral in the winners bracket. Curiously, Serral opted to go for several pool-first builds and other aggressive strategies in the grand finals, but none of them hit the mark. Indeed, defense was the name of the game in the grand finals, with Reynor dropping his only map when he went for an aggressive Roach-Bane-Ling all-in.
The Douyu Cup marks the second major tournament in a row where the 'foreigners' managed to topple the Korean contingent, following on the heels of DreamHack Summer Season Finals where Serral defeated Trap to claim the championship. While Cure and Zest came within a game of toppling Serral and Reynor respectively, they failed to close their Douyu cup series out in the end. With Rogue (IEM Katowice) and soO (TSL5) winning the first two major internationals in 2020, and Serral and Reynor winning the next two, fans should be extra-intrigued to see who will break the tie between Korea and the rest of the world at the DreamHack Fall Season Finals.
wtf how is that bracket setup fair lol thats not how double elimination tournaments work. serral should have two sets to beat reynor in the grand finals, otherwise it's single elimination for him but double for everyone else. this problem was solved hundreds of years ago, am i missing something?
On August 15 2020 05:34 luxon wrote: wtf how is that bracket setup fair lol thats not how double elimination tournaments work. serral should have two sets to beat reynor in the grand finals, otherwise it's single elimination for him but double for everyone else. this problem was solved hundreds of years ago, am i missing something?
Yes, you are missing that some people and organizers don't think so. I personally share your view.
On August 15 2020 05:34 luxon wrote: wtf how is that bracket setup fair lol thats not how double elimination tournaments work. serral should have two sets to beat reynor in the grand finals, otherwise it's single elimination for him but double for everyone else. this problem was solved hundreds of years ago, am i missing something?
Yes, you are missing that some people and organizers don't think so. I personally share your view.
Did the community already have talks about this loser bracket thing ? I don't appreciate it that much... and getting rid of it altogether would solve the problem in my opinion.
On August 15 2020 05:34 luxon wrote: wtf how is that bracket setup fair lol thats not how double elimination tournaments work. serral should have two sets to beat reynor in the grand finals, otherwise it's single elimination for him but double for everyone else. this problem was solved hundreds of years ago, am i missing something?
Yes, you are missing that some people and organizers don't think so. I personally share your view.
Did the community already have talks about this loser bracket thing ? I don't appreciate it that much... and getting rid of it altogether would solve the problem in my opinion.
I rationalize it by thinking of it as one big double elimination qualifier to reach the finals. With sufficient mental gymnastics one can view the finals as a separate event. At some level I know this makes no sense though...
IDK I've always found finals where the winner has a advantage to a lot less entertaining. I stopped watching when HotS came out, but I thought these discussions were pretty much over back then haha.
On August 15 2020 05:34 luxon wrote: wtf how is that bracket setup fair lol thats not how double elimination tournaments work. serral should have two sets to beat reynor in the grand finals, otherwise it's single elimination for him but double for everyone else. this problem was solved hundreds of years ago, am i missing something?
It is very rare to have extra lives at the finals of a double elim bracket in StarCraft 2. It was used years ago in the beggining, but it was very unpopular, so in time people stopped using it. The usual is for the winner bracket player to have 1 game up, but this of course varies between organizers.
On August 15 2020 05:34 luxon wrote: wtf how is that bracket setup fair lol thats not how double elimination tournaments work. serral should have two sets to beat reynor in the grand finals, otherwise it's single elimination for him but double for everyone else. this problem was solved hundreds of years ago, am i missing something?
Even if it's a bo3+bo5 or some thing like that, I believe Reynor will win this what ever. And winner's advantage is still quite big for serral as he showed less of what he got and have more time to prepare
On August 15 2020 05:34 luxon wrote: wtf how is that bracket setup fair lol thats not how double elimination tournaments work. serral should have two sets to beat reynor in the grand finals, otherwise it's single elimination for him but double for everyone else. this problem was solved hundreds of years ago, am i missing something?
It is very rare to have extra lives at the finals of a double elim bracket in StarCraft 2. It was used years ago in the beggining, but it was very unpopular, so in time people stopped using it. The usual is for the winner bracket player to have 1 game up, but this of course varies between organizers.
To add on to this, if I recall it was basically just MLG that had a double-elim bracket in early SC2, and this came with some weird extended-series stuff that was... not exactly well-liked.
The fact that series length increases deeper into the bracket messes with the natural double-elim rule. On the one hand, Serral "should" have to lose two matches like everyone else, but on the other hand, he lost more games in his match loss than anyone else not named Zest, so "should" that match loss be worth the same as other match losses earlier in the bracket? (I don't know that there's a good way to answer this other than to start running some simulations and seeing if there's all that much a difference at all.)
It's been a long time since I've seen a tournament that gave the winner's bracket finalist a BoX advantage (where the loser's bracket finalist would have to win two BoX series in a row), but I thought I remembered a recent tournament or two that gave the winner's finalist a 1-game lead in the BoX. In this case, even if Serral was awarded a free map, it wouldn't have mattered.
I think its absolutly the right to do it this was, as it is way more interesting for viewers
Also why dies no one complain for winners advantage in double elimination groups? In current GSL Stats allready lost to Dark in Group Stage 1. Rogue allready lost to Solar in Ro24 and Stats in Ro16. Where should Stats advantage be? Dream didn drop a Single Series until he was eliminated by Rogue in Ro8, where was his advantage, je just löst once and is allreadyout, while Rogue lost twice allreadyand is in the Finals. Winner advantage in Finals doesn t make sense, if you Don t Apple it in those case as well. Wich would be pretty dann bad for Viewing experience. That s why it s good to get rid of it completly. The advantage is, you have to Play lese games. Period.
On August 15 2020 13:58 SamirDuran wrote: I don't get why you guys are complaining about double elimination right now. I thought the advantage of the winners bracket is you play less games
Given the play on the day, I think Reynor winning was inevitable, but the lack of any winner's bracket advantage does leave a bad taste when one player loses the finals, despite having only dropped one series the whole tournament (let's not go telling that fewer games as a comparable advantage to being able to drop a whole series joke).
EPT
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