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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 08 2007 08:05 lololol wrote:
NO! NO! NO! NO! IT'S GONNA BE LIKE THAT:
YOU CANT TURN IT OFF
IT ACTIVATES NO MATTER ARE THERE ENEMIES AROUND OR NOT
IT CAN AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY KILL YOUR RINES
ACTUALLY IF YOU CAN THINK UP AN ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC WAY TO IMPLEMENT IT, IT'S GONNA BE LIKE THAT FOR FUCKING SURE!
Seriously, fucking read what I posted and stop acting like the most retarded thing you can come up with is gonna be implemented, instead of the best one they thought of. Not to mention there may be no stimpack in sc2, since it's dull and there's no thought or strategy or aiming needed in using it, if it's going to be in sc2, it will probably work in a different way, that actually requires strategy to use or it will be passive/autocast.
Ok, I'm gonna make state this as simply as humanly possible:
Having stimpacks on autocast, regardless of wether you can turn it on or off, wether it activates when 1 zergling comes into your field of vision or 50, would suck.
No, no, wait.
Stimpack on autocast = bad. I don't care how you want to implement it, I don't want to even have to think about it. Why would you want to have stimpack on autocast!?
Stimpack is fine the way it is, don't fucking mess with the stimpacks. They can remove every god damn unit in the game, just keep the marines, the medics, and the lurkers - and keep them the same as in sc1, I'll be happy --;
Obvious exaggeration above but not by as much as one would think..
Here's what you wrote at first:
Btw, I wouldn't mind if there was no stimpack, without medics the enemy just runs and you waste hp and you still need it every battle to be more effective and with medics you just spam it(such a spell would be autocast in w3).
1) Yes, you need it every battle, so when you get plagued, or your medics run out of mana, you are shit out of luck! It's a fun, unique ability that adds a shitload of life to an otherwise dull unit, being able to use it often - but not all the time - is FUN.
2) No, medics do run out, if you spam it without thinking, it's bad.
Look, I apoligize for the tone, it's stupid to get upset over this (by me), but if there's one thing I don't want, it's stimpack on autocast --
Btw, I haven't played warcraft 3 in a long time, but I'm almost certain the Orc Trolls (the spearthrowers I think they were?) had a stim like ability, that would increase their rate of fire and lower their armor for X duration, now, I'm 99% certain that this wasn't autocast, so I doubt something like stimpacks will be.
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On July 08 2007 11:54 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2007 08:05 lololol wrote:
NO! NO! NO! NO! IT'S GONNA BE LIKE THAT:
YOU CANT TURN IT OFF
IT ACTIVATES NO MATTER ARE THERE ENEMIES AROUND OR NOT
IT CAN AND WILL AUTOMATICALLY KILL YOUR RINES
ACTUALLY IF YOU CAN THINK UP AN ABSOLUTELY IDIOTIC WAY TO IMPLEMENT IT, IT'S GONNA BE LIKE THAT FOR FUCKING SURE!
Seriously, fucking read what I posted and stop acting like the most retarded thing you can come up with is gonna be implemented, instead of the best one they thought of. Not to mention there may be no stimpack in sc2, since it's dull and there's no thought or strategy or aiming needed in using it, if it's going to be in sc2, it will probably work in a different way, that actually requires strategy to use or it will be passive/autocast. Ok, I'm gonna make state this as simply as humanly possible: Having stimpacks on autocast, regardless of wether you can turn it on or off, wether it activates when 1 zergling comes into your field of vision or 50, would suck. No, no, wait. Stimpack on autocast = bad. I don't care how you want to implement it, I don't want to even have to think about it. Why would you want to have stimpack on autocast!? Stimpack is fine the way it is, don't fucking mess with the stimpacks. They can remove every god damn unit in the game, just keep the marines, the medics, and the lurkers - and keep them the same as in sc1, I'll be happy --; Obvious exaggeration above but not by as much as one would think.. Here's what you wrote at first: Show nested quote +Btw, I wouldn't mind if there was no stimpack, without medics the enemy just runs and you waste hp and you still need it every battle to be more effective and with medics you just spam it(such a spell would be autocast in w3). 1) Yes, you need it every battle, so when you get plagued, or your medics run out of mana, you are shit out of luck! It's a fun, unique ability that adds a shitload of life to an otherwise dull unit, being able to use it often - but not all the time - is FUN. 2) No, medics do run out, if you spam it without thinking, it's bad. Look, I apoligize for the tone, it's stupid to get upset over this (by me), but if there's one thing I don't want, it's stimpack on autocast --
I want dragoons in sc2, too 
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Sweden33719 Posts
I wouldn't mind dragoons in SC2, but in my mind, as long as the stalker and the immortal can fire a similiar distance, I won't miss it toooooo badly ><
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anyone who think stimpack should be auto cast in any shape or form should be pooped upon i think
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On July 08 2007 13:19 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I wouldn't mind dragoons in SC2, but in my mind, as long as the stalker and the immortal can fire a similiar distance, I won't miss it toooooo badly ><
I want a BIG ENERGY BALL, not some crappy blasters or lasers and the dragoons design was cool with the 360 degree of firing/moving.
On July 08 2007 14:22 FatRine wrote:
anyone who think stimpack should be auto cast in any shape or form should be pooped upon i think
So you want someone to replace you?
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On July 07 2007 17:38 TheFoReveRwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2007 10:59 Klockan3 wrote:On July 07 2007 10:47 FrozenArbiter wrote:
I play protoss. If I'm 10 times better than my opponent he dies in my first attack.
Then why are you acting so stupid about the medic subject? Removing the medic will only reduce the micro for marines to the level of the micro for zealots and goons. I nowere talk about removing micro for lowtier units totally, just that lowtier units should generally be lowmicro units such as those of toss/zerg.(Yes they are low micro units compared to templars/other casters, drops and so on) The fact that the marine micro is unique from the other units is good, it's not supposed to be uniform across the board, different races have different amounts of micro at different phases. No, the races should be diverse, but the skill requirement for all of them must be the same or they become unalanced. Having one side with micro heavy starting units is bound to create imbalance in either lowend or highend games.(But in starcraft it didnt matter in lowend, since all lowend players played money maps were terran can turtle) There is a few things you cant add for diversity really, and with a real ladder they need to have the game quite balanced for all skill levels, but ofcourse highest level comes first. How will removing the medic "reduce micro" for marines? What exactly is a "low micro" unit?
A unit that dont rely totally on being microed. For example, a zergling works best when it goes to the enemy and hits them, all the micro used is when you either need to avoid enemies to harras, or when they kite your zerglings you need to focus on the ones that are standing still.
However, marines with medics arent at all like that. Medics makes marine micro much more powerfull by allowing hurt units to be healed extremely fast at the same time as allowing constant stimming. For example, 5 marines vs 10 zerglings, the marines can stim and kite etc, but winning that battle without losses is impossible, while instead with 3 marines and 2 medics vs 10 zerglings its possible to win without losing a single unit eventhough its hard to pull of.
With micro heavy i dont mean how much you can possible micro the unit(Every unit can be microed to impossible degrees), but instead how big the difference between microing and not microing is(Wich vary greatly between different units)
Also
How will removing the medic "reduce micro" for marines?
Ask all of the "Save the medic" whiner in this thread.
Klockan3 I predict you won't last long here.
Beacuse you cant even comprehend my posts, or even the general understanding and opinions on this topic from most posters even on this forum?
Even if we removed medics marines would be more micro heavy than its counterparts due to stim, but marine micro wouldnt make such a big difference as it does now, wich is why a lot of persons are unhappy since they want high rewarding micro.
PS. i never said that the game should be balanced for noobs, read before you post you ignorant wanna be pro player. However the amounth of micro required to play the races shouldnt vary greatly in any parts of the game, you cant say that a micro heavy start is a trait fit for terran or any race really. This can be seen like only introducing smartcast and mult building select to zerg, wich would lessen the micro load on zerg players a ton making the games micro requirement hugely imbalanced factionvise.
Sure its just a small thing and i understand why people want to keep it, but that doesnt mean that i dont understand the complications such a feature adds to the game overall.
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Sweden33719 Posts
PS. i never said that the game should be balanced for noobs, read before you post you ignorant wanna be pro player. However the amounth of micro required to play the races shouldnt vary greatly in any parts of the game, you cant say that a micro heavy start is a trait fit for terran or any race really. This can be seen like only introducing smartcast and mult building select to zerg, wich would lessen the micro load on zerg players a ton making the games micro requirement hugely imbalanced factionvise.
I disagree with this part strongly, having the factions play differently (and therefore require different skillsets) is a perfectly fine part of the game and, indeed, one of the reasons why the races in SC are so diverse.
As for your comments on zergling micro, ehm, properly microed zerglings will - by far - out perform zerglings that just 'get to the enemy and hit them'.
Also, the marines start out the same as zealots and zerglings - no abilities, relatively weak, but then you tech and they turn into this different units once you get your academy, at which point the zerg player will have other units available to him (as will the protoss). The dragoon starts off being almost useless, but is transformed into a strong fighter with the range upgrade, much like the marine.
Yes, once you get to academy tech the marine becomes the backbone for terran in TvZ and its potential goes far up, but why is this bad? By that time zerg is nearing mutalisk or lurker tech, units with very similiar potential for micro (mutas) and destruction (both). The races just play differently, that's all, and I cannot for the life of me see the problem with this.
Zerglings, once you reach hive and 3-3 upgrades vs Toss, go from being relatively worthless to being some of the most cost effective units in the game.. Is this bad as well? You don't even need to invest a substantial amount of micro into them to achieve this at this point.
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stim packs stay...
medics stay...
i like medics but something definitely needs to be done to add more depth...
if they are taken out, i wont mind as long as there is some way to heal them during battle...if there is a shield battery like building which has aoe heal, it would be ok but it wouldnt be the same....
everyone saw, witnessed and acknowledged how useless and stupid marines were as a choice in vanilla...zerg would rape them and so would protoss....they just werent very reliable and required too much baby sitting....it was also dumb how the base units of each race counters the marine...
medics was what added more depth to infantry...i gurantee u, if marines are in anyway shape or form as viable as starcraft vanilla, terrans would spam the mech builds or something against every race...
if it is absolutely essential to take them out, give terrans a mid-game unit that is some mechanical APC/Tank that heals infantry in aoe.....thats if its a must
otherwise, id just lower the heal rate of medics cuz of the increased HP, and maybe the cost
and for the stupid storyline argument, im sure the terrans would start training their own medics cuz of how efficient they were when the UED used them
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On July 08 2007 15:07 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +PS. i never said that the game should be balanced for noobs, read before you post you ignorant wanna be pro player. However the amounth of micro required to play the races shouldnt vary greatly in any parts of the game, you cant say that a micro heavy start is a trait fit for terran or any race really. This can be seen like only introducing smartcast and mult building select to zerg, wich would lessen the micro load on zerg players a ton making the games micro requirement hugely imbalanced factionvise. I disagree with this part strongly, having the factions play differently (and therefore require different skillsets) is a perfectly fine part of the game and, indeed, one of the reasons why the races in SC are so diverse.
Well, yeah oppinions differ ofc.
As for your comments on zergling micro, ehm, properly microed zerglings will - by far - out perform zerglings that just 'get to the enemy and hit them'.
Yeah, but thats on an entirely other scale, and is usually to counter your opponents micro, while marine micro is to counter your opponents inherently stronger units and also have a much looser cap in terms of how effectively you can use them.
Replacing the medic with a hp uppgrade will make the marines work a bit more in line with every other unit but still being weak in the begining, and the healing could come from another unit with a weaker version as the post above me says.
Also Boxer micro isnt what made starcraft popular, such things came first after it got popular and also people that dont play starcraft dont understand how hard those things are to do anyway.
But anyhow discussing this is kinda moot since its all about opinions. Imo starcraft 2 dont need medics, and probably will be better wo them, and in many others opinion starcraft 2 will be a flop if medics aint in it. However, no matter if they put medics in sc2 or not, it will be the biggest rts of its time since it will take people from both sc and wc3, even if not all sc purists will follow.(Eventhough if the crowd leaves sc, then the pro scene have to go to since they are dependant on the casual players, and we can be sure that atleast the non asian players will go to it)
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Sweden33719 Posts
Replacing the medic with a hp uppgrade will make the marines work a bit more in line with every other unit but still being weak in the begining, and the healing could come from another unit with a weaker version as the post above me says.
Which goes completely against blizzards stated goal of further diversifying the races! This being said, I don't think it will ruin the game to remove the medics, but it would most certainly be a strange choice..
Yes, starcraft became popular before Boxer and his marine micro, but it REALLY boomed - e-sports wise - once his reign started. Was it all because he could micro marines like a superhuman being? Of course not, but I'm pretty sure his marine micro was one of the things that made him famous and made people go 'wow'. You don't need to know much about SC to recognize how amazing it is when a small group of marines wreak complete havoc in a zerg base 
Removing the possiblity of this happening in a sequel would, imo, be a strange choice indeed.
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I'm glad FA is here so I don't have to answer these people
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On July 08 2007 14:22 FatRine wrote:
anyone who think stimpack should be auto cast in any shape or form should be pooped upon i think
qft
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Since you mentioned the berserker ability from war3, would that make you happy? I might be wrong but it doesn't take away any life, changes firing rate, armor (or damage taken, whatever) and makes the unit move faster (I think).
That way you would have your cute micro to have fun with and we would get a new interesting unit instead of the medic.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Uhm, it would be better than nothing but I think the 'lose 10 hp, gain speed/attack' was a really unique and interesting ability :/
+ Removing medics would still turn marines into a run of the mill unit, weak and without longevity.
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On July 08 2007 16:04 FrozenArbiter wrote:Removing the possiblity of this happening in a sequel would, imo, be a strange choice indeed.
M&M in BW rocked. It could kill a far superior army of lurklings with correct micro and it looked great. One of the coolest things in BW no doubt. BW would suck without M&M.
I don't see how you automatically assume it will be the same in SC2 though. Seriously, we have over 10 new units only for protoss so far? It will be a different game. Understand that M&M are great in BW, but not automatically great for SC2. How do you know medics will fit in SC2? Healing is something BW lacks right now and I imagine we will se new stuff that will fit in more than medics. How do you know Marines with shield on-off button won't be as enjoyable to watch? (And yes that was an example, I have no clue if shields can be turned off manually.)
You said medics, marines and lurkers are the trademark of Starcraft. I agree. You could take any random 3 units from BW and you would get the same support from me and other hardcore bw-fans and you know it. All units in BW made BW superior to any other game. But this is a new game. A sequel, but still a new game. We will get other awesome micro moves hopefully. Just because you can't imagine something more starcraftish than M&M, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
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Well as long as medics don't have jetpacks or jump levels of terrain, I'll be happy.
I do think stim should take 15 damage instead of 10 though, or there should be some type of minor adjustment like that, but not completely take out the stim/marine/medic system.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On July 08 2007 17:20 joeki wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2007 16:04 FrozenArbiter wrote:Removing the possiblity of this happening in a sequel would, imo, be a strange choice indeed. M&M in BW rocked. It could kill a far superior army of lurklings with correct micro and it looked great. One of the coolest things in BW no doubt. BW would suck without M&M. I don't see how you automatically assume it will be the same in SC2 though. Seriously, we have over 10 new units only for protoss so far? It will be a different game. Understand that M&M are great in BW, but not automatically great for SC2. How do you know medics will fit in SC2? Healing is something BW lacks right now and I imagine we will se new stuff that will fit in more than medics. How do you know Marines with shield on-off button won't be as enjoyable to watch? (And yes that was an example, I have no clue if shields can be turned off manually.) You said medics, marines and lurkers are the trademark of Starcraft. I agree. You could take any random 3 units from BW and you would get the same support from me and other hardcore bw-fans and you know it. All units in BW made BW superior to any other game. But this is a new game. A sequel, but still a new game. We will get other awesome micro moves hopefully. Just because you can't imagine something more starcraftish than M&M, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The marine shield upgrade adds HP, no abilities (Q&A 5). Yes, it's a new game, but I think it would be folish to remove everything that worked in BW/was popular in BW.
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Maybe they will replace the medic with an ambulance
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if they remove medics that will be homo, unless marines are suddenly better vs zealots and zerglings.
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On July 08 2007 19:11 Sadist wrote:
if they remove medics that will be homo, unless marines are suddenly better vs zealots and zerglings.
There is also the possibility of male medics.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/pnorm/vehicules/Ambulance/ambulance-01.jpg)
