EPTsome of you newer guys are lucky you dont play maps with cliffs anymore, shit used to be gameover when you got cliffed as p vs z or pvst or tvz
Starcraft 2 shouldn't have medics - Page 6
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
some of you newer guys are lucky you dont play maps with cliffs anymore, shit used to be gameover when you got cliffed as p vs z or pvst or tvz | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On Showdown. From 1999. ;p Hardly fair to call him a newer player! On July 08 2007 19:22 fight_or_flight wrote: There is also the possibility of male medics. Naaaaaah, we need the medic voice actress back yo (she did the dryads in war3 too btw). Maybe we could make the medics male and the marines female, turn terran into a matriarchy :D!! (JUST KIDDING) | ||
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MoNKeYSpanKeR
United States2869 Posts
I rest my case. | ||
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NaDazpwnz3r
United States111 Posts
btw, the 1st part in the vid above w/ nada was awesome | ||
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FroZZoR
China925 Posts
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On July 08 2007 19:25 Sadist wrote: lol to the guy who said marine medic in a dropship is broken because you have to defend expos with a lurker and a sunken, you can drop 2 lurkers on a mineral line of a terran and it can be pretty much game over early game, dropships are relatively easy to deal with nowadays, and a lurker and 2 sunkens is nothing to pay for all that extra gas you are getting some of you newer guys are lucky you dont play maps with cliffs anymore, shit used to be gameover when you got cliffed as p vs z or pvst or tvz Well, I did say "borderline broken", and FA made a good point that there have probably been a lot less successful marine drops lately since muta stacking changes the way/time terran can use offensive drops. But, I still stand by the fact that it is really powerful... almost too powerful if not for mutas. One thing I noticed that I really really like (and could almost be enough to change my opinion), is the way Savior doesn't burrow his lurkers that defend his expos from drops until the marines appear. I love smart micro, and this really helps a lot. Probably old news now, but I just never did it much myself back in the day. I love learning new stuff almost a decade later. =] What a game. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Stimmed rines are great. | ||
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DTDominion
United States2148 Posts
The Medic works because, like Marines, Firebats, SCVs, and Ghosts they are smaller scale maneuverable units. Coming up with an alternative to Medics which works just as suitably would be near impossible, if it's possible at all. Plus, as FA has explained multiple times, M&M micro is synonymous with StarCraft, as well as being a major part of its appeal. If it's changed beyond minor balance tweaks StarCraft II will not be a true sequel to StarCraft. | ||
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joeki
Sweden292 Posts
On July 09 2007 10:10 DTDominion wrote: Plus, as FA has explained multiple times, M&M micro is synonymous with StarCraft, as well as being a major part of its appear. If it's changed beyond minor balance tweaks StarCraft II will not be a true sequel to StarCraft. Okay, maybe I was wrong in my previous post in this topic. Are really Marines and medics more important to you guys than anything else? It sure seems so here, but I wonder... Are you really sure you wouldn't say exactly the same thing if tanks didn't get siege mode? If vulture mines was taken away? If ghosts didn't have nukes? And that is just for terran! I may very well be wrong, but if tanks was changed/deleted I'm pretty sure we would get just as many "tanks in siege mode are synonymous with Starcraft" as we get now with the medics. And if you plan to respond "ok, tanks AND M&M" then. Try to figure out what units aren't that important to bw. I can't find a single one I want to leave out. From BW that is. I still advice you to see SC2 not as a BroodWar+, but as a new game with starcraft spirit. Otherwise, we will get disappointed no matter what as I wrote in my own thread (which surprisingly got very few responses from the hardcore fans I was refering to that post in this thread). I want to know how you guys really think that defends medics so much. Tell me what units in BW you don't think fit in... | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
That being said: - I wouldn't be horribly upset about the valkyrie, I liked this unit personally but it's not going to make me cry blood. For protoss I guess the scout and the corsair, which already have been removed, would be the ones that make sense (and I LOVE corsair/dt so  ). I like the arbiter a lot (DUH), but even though I've known it to be removed for a long time now I've never even commented on it, so clearly there must be some kind of difference between the medic and the arbiter. Marine/medic, vulture/tank.. these things are iconic. The arbiters were great, I love them, use them nearly every PvT, but they weren't iconic units. I haven't seen the star relic up close but from what little I've seen, I like the arbiter better (just as an aside). Corsairs? Again, great unit, but is it really going to kill me if they are removed? No, as long as there's some kind of replacement (the phoenix does fine, I like this unit mostly). Scout? Uhm, it really wasn't used very much, I still opened with 1 gate scout a lot PvZ instead of 1 gate sair (it's great if your scouting probe sees him making an evolution chamber to defend vs your stargate, instead of a corsair as you are then free to kill drones in his main until he makes a second spore or a hydra den.. but I digress), but it being removed doesn't kill me either. For zerg.. Queens, I enjoyed using them but mostly because of their speed and novelty I guess them being removed wouldn't make me too upset. Hydras, lurkers or zerglings = TOUCH THESE AND YOU ARE DEAD :D!! Guardians/devourers, mm, not as important as long as they are adequately replaced. Now, wasn't the dragoon an iconic unit you'll ask? Yes, yes, it was I'll say, but the replacements for it seem interesting enough to not make me that upset (except the voices.. bring back dragoon voices please, PLEAAAAAAAAAASE). As long as their replacement for the medic is akin to the Stalker's replacement of the dragoon I wouldn't be too upset, IE I don't care if they call it a "Field Surgeon" and give it fucking rollerblades, just as long as it's still essentially the medic we know and love. Btw, Joeki, your thread was good, if I didn't already say so. | ||
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joeki
Sweden292 Posts
 You seem to realize SC2 is a new game and just want your favorite units in the game. I can understand that. You could actually pick units you could live without, and even if they were few (and you seemed to personally love them all :D ) I think you are one of the few hardcore fans that could pick more than 5 units you could take away from the starcraft universe. In my opinion Dragoon was only iconic because it was used the most. It wasn't really interesting. It was used in all matchups on every map and was perhaps the best unit in the game. I love it for BW, but it would kill me to see dragoons in every protoss game in SC2 too. The replacements looks great. I somehow get the same feeling when I think about tanks and M&M and lurker/ling. I don't want to see exactly the same battles in SC2 so I would personally choose an upgraded Scout before Dragoon and a more useful Ghost before Tank. Or new units. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Ah btw, a few additions: The DA, but I think they've merged the DA and Archon in the twilight archon (just what I think) and we'll have a caster/fighter! I agree with what you say about the dragoon btw, I like the unit but I'm sure I'll like the stalker/immortal too as long as they move nicely. The tank is too iconic to remove for me tho, it opens up so many interesting possibilties. | ||
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fight_or_flight
United States3988 Posts
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
Yup, that was brutal. 200 mineral vs of terran killed how many drones and zergling? It is in this example that shows just how powerful a little bit of mnm micro is, and just how far it can go. Sometimes it seems a little unfair. | ||
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QuanticHawk
United States32132 Posts
On July 09 2007 10:33 FrozenArbiter wrote: I don't care if they rename it a "Field Surgeon" and give it fucking rollerblades, just as long as it's still essentially the medic we know and love. hahahah i got a good laugh out of this. Im in agreement tho, m&m is like a staple of the game. and i disagree with you on queens and guardians. <3 both of them =] | ||
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Blacklizard
United States1194 Posts
On July 09 2007 10:33 FrozenArbiter wrote: As long as their replacement for the medic is akin to the Stalker's replacement of the dragoon I wouldn't be too upset, IE I don't care if they rename it a "Field Surgeon" and give it fucking rollerblades, just as long as it's still essentially the medic we know and love. And in response to the quote on medics = human: Now these posts are swaying me. I think the medic does have to stay in some form or fashion. Why? The biggest reason is that it makes Terran feel very different than zerg/protoss. Getting down to it, I guess I just hope lurkers counter them a little better in SC2 than they did in SC1 (with the usual mnm micro). At least with proper micro on the zerg side... like maybe if you could aim your lurker shots ahead of where you expected the marines to run, then I'd really not mind the toughness of mnm. | ||
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gravity
Australia2116 Posts
On July 09 2007 11:03 joeki wrote: In my opinion Dragoon was only iconic because it was used the most. It wasn't really interesting. It was used in all matchups on every map and was perhaps the best unit in the game. I'd actually say that Dragoons aren't really that good for their cost and build-time, they just fill a vital role for Protoss. | ||
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FieryBalrog
United States1381 Posts
I like medic/marine combo too, but a) Its a little too obvious and gets used every single zerg matchup, wouldn't it be nice if it Terran had more 'backbone' unit options in this matchup? MnM is used the whole game through all the time. b) medics remove all the tactical tradeoff of stimming, when it was designed in vanilla SC it wasn't with the view that "hey, feel free to stim any time, all the time". Now I know constantly spamming it nonstop will down your medics energy, but realistically, its constantly on in battle. And as someone said it just makes medics a huge walking permanent buff to marines, good for constant move/attack speed and health regen. Also, its kind of sad that lurkers, supposedly the mid-game counter, are pretty damn hard to use against properly microed MnM (which becomes a ton easier with constant stim) but can't be microed themselves to much advantage. For this reason I think TvZ is a little imbalanced at the medium skill levels, Zerg practically needs hive tech to compete with tier 1 terran units and a few tanks. Its not a big deal since its pretty even at the pro level, but it'd be nice if this was addressed also. Just my $0.02 | ||
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AcrossFiveJulys
United States3612 Posts
On July 08 2007 09:38 caution.slip wrote: you know in war3 all autocast abilities can be toggled on or off so turn it off Saying this is retarded and I'm sick of hearing it. If your opponent is using autocast and you are not, you probably have a disadvantage. Anyone with half a brain will use autocast if it's available. The point is, most people don't want it to be an option at all. | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
On July 09 2007 16:14 FieryBalrog wrote: One thing that was brought up as a good point that hasn't really been addressed: I like medic/marine combo too, but a) Its a little too obvious and gets used every single zerg matchup, wouldn't it be nice if it Terran had more 'backbone' unit options in this matchup? MnM is used the whole game through all the time. b) medics remove all the tactical tradeoff of stimming, when it was designed in vanilla SC it wasn't with the view that "hey, feel free to stim any time, all the time". Now I know constantly spamming it nonstop will down your medics energy, but realistically, its constantly on in battle. And as someone said it just makes medics a huge walking permanent buff to marines, good for constant move/attack speed and health regen. Also, its kind of sad that lurkers, supposedly the mid-game counter, are pretty damn hard to use against properly microed MnM (which becomes a ton easier with constant stim) but can't be microed themselves to much advantage. For this reason I think TvZ is a little imbalanced at the medium skill levels, Zerg practically needs hive tech to compete with tier 1 terran units and a few tanks. Its not a big deal since its pretty even at the pro level, but it'd be nice if this was addressed also. Just my $0.02 To address point B. Without medics, there is a very easy and nearly free counter to stimmed marines. It's called running away. Now the marines are at 75% health and fire normally again when your Zerg army returns. Yeah, that's real fucking fair. Have you ever played TvZ in vanilla SC? It's ridiculous. Muta/Ling rapes you at every turn. Then throw in Ultras and Swarm. Terran needed medics badly. Now, TvZ is one of the most balanced match-ups in BW. | ||
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