EPTIn defense of the Widow Mine - Page 3
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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nanaoei
3358 Posts
people have been afraid of mutalisks because they often don't prepare for them. people are afraid of storm and yet they let the protoss expand and play in large engagements only. in other words, they are afraid of playing with ghosts because they need to break muscle memory and use more than the one hotkey and build a different production building. at some point it really is about ego and finding the game unfun or too difficult. more than anything, the game is just a bit too fast. the parallel i'm drawing is that we've always adapted as players, and complaining as the general playerbase has never amounted to anything... until now. they're speaking to pros and adjusting numbers to feedback. because we are always watching, the puzzle-solving aspect of the game is cleanly removed by paying attention and emulating. if we were forced to puzzle solve ourselves at times, we would come up with our own unique solutions. there is really no need to place positive reinforcement with negative opinions about a design or a unit like the widowmine. if you have one bad experience, you practice to never lose to it ever again. the game is made harder for you as an individual and so you improve in beating it and at the very least it becomes easier to you. that is the basic premise in adapting over complaining. the onus is basically on you, because once again, complaints like these change just about nothing. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On May 19 2020 08:57 DaveyJosiah wrote: Except the widow mine deals far more damage than the baneling, is stealthed, and reloads. There's no other unit in the game that can be placed, ignored, and just wipe enemy runbys with zero apm. It would be about as difficult as detonating a burrowed baneling when units walk over it, except the widow mine has greater range. Yes and I can count on my two hands the number of time I have seen burrow banes do anything in the last 8 years of professional sc2. | ||
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naughtDE
158 Posts
On May 19 2020 09:46 nanaoei wrote: starcraft 2 has had this rather odd history of being watched since its release. the majority of people, even here, watch rather than play. sometimes there is this understanding of the game from a deep interest in it from a player or a set of players who have played the game with less practice than necessary to deal with the stronger tools of a race. people have been afraid of mutalisks because they often don't prepare for them. people are afraid of storm and yet they let the protoss expand and play in large engagements only. in other words, they are afraid of playing with ghosts because they need to break muscle memory and use more than the one hotkey and build a different production building. at some point it really is about ego and finding the game unfun or too difficult. more than anything, the game is just a bit too fast. the parallel i'm drawing is that we've always adapted as players, and complaining as the general playerbase has never amounted to anything... until now. they're speaking to pros and adjusting numbers to feedback. because we are always watching, the puzzle-solving aspect of the game is cleanly removed by paying attention and emulating. if we were forced to puzzle solve ourselves at times, we would come up with our own unique solutions. there is really no need to place positive reinforcement with negative opinions about a design or a unit like the widowmine. if you have one bad experience, you practice to never lose to it ever again. the game is made harder for you as an individual and so you improve in beating it and at the very least it becomes easier to you. that is the basic premise in adapting over complaining. the onus is basically on you, because once again, complaints like these change just about nothing. Think about Sc2's history though. I personally quit WoL 2 Weeks in, when an instant fungle hit my marines. I was playing random at that time, but I thought, hey lets wait until they fix this. This is obviously terrible, terrible design. They didn't, broodlord infestor ensued. I didn't buy Hots, I saw the swarmhost in one of the trailers and thought, hey lets wait until they fix this. Epic 4hour games about as exiting as paint drying ensued, Sc2's playerbase basically died. Because while hilarious to watch, unless being paid to play, there was no fun in that, then there came tankivacs... Eventually Sc2 got a new design team and non of the current units in game make me not play the game, but I feel sc2 could still be improved drastically. Widowmines are not interesting, fair or fun, they aren't as bad as the things mentioned above, a plea in their defense though might be a first sign of stockholm syndrome. So Sc2's history teaches us, complaints like these can change things. Again though, I agree with you, that the situation with widowmines is not comparable to Sc2's past, since counterplay does exist and so part of the responsibility is on the players, it just isn't fun. | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
It makes it rewarding to play against and it gives very fun and dynamic games to watch while siege tank style is way slower. | ||
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Aunvilgodess
954 Posts
On May 18 2020 05:32 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Players can also show their skills in ways that don't involve instantly losing the game to a moment of inattention. SC2 has long had a problem with game-ending moments, and widow mines are part of it. Mind you they (and disruptors) are probably among the more benign game-ending things that the game has had, but that doesn't make them a 'great' unit. It's far from the worst unit though. Banelings vs Bio is a potentially game ending interaction as well and one I wouldn't want to miss. Same is true for Storm vs Bio. The only difference is the time of the interaction but I don't think that is necessarily relevant. | ||
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SChlafmann
France725 Posts
On May 19 2020 19:09 Aunvilgodess wrote: Banelings vs Bio is a potentially game ending interaction as well and one I wouldn't want to miss. Same is true for Storm vs Bio. The only difference is the time of the interaction but I don't think that is necessarily relevant. Balenings don't explode on their own. They need a command from the owner. This is the issue with mine. Creating randomness (because of their so high skill need that no pro-player can fully use them) in a game where randomness has no place. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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DaveyJosiah
13 Posts
Yes and I can count on my two hands the number of time I have seen burrow banes do anything in the last 8 years of professional sc2. This isn't because players are too slow to press a single button, it's because there is always detection present to clear creep. I'm honestly a bit surprised at the reaction that it would be too difficult to select the units and press a single button in response to a runby or drop. The nerf just requires multitasking when harass is happening at the same time as an engagement, which is how every single other unit in the game works. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On May 20 2020 23:00 DaveyJosiah wrote: This isn't because players are too slow to press a single button, it's because there is always detection present to clear creep. I'm honestly a bit surprised at the reaction that it would be too difficult to select the units and press a single button in response to a runby or drop. The nerf just requires multitasking when harass is happening at the same time as an engagement, which is how every single other unit in the game works. If I could grab all my burrowed WMs and a click on them then yeah, but considering burrowed they wont move and A moving means they would attack the nearest unit it comes in range. Or maybe people should stop asking for this nonse. | ||
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