• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:03
CEST 21:03
KST 04:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak11DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview19herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)17Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho4
Community News
[BSL20] RO20 Group Stage0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)7Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14
StarCraft 2
General
herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview Power Rank: October 2018 Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho
Tourneys
DreamHack Dallas 2025 Last Chance Qualifiers for OlimoLeague 2024 Winter $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak BW General Discussion Cwal.gg not working BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Artosis baned on twitch ?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL19] Semifinal B [BSL20] RO20 Group Stage Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12771 users

TSL4 - The Retrospective

Forum Index > SC2 General
68 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

TSL4 - The Retrospective

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
May 12th, 2020 20:03 GMT
  • Stories and Legends
  • Where are they now?
  • Interview: Liquid`MaNa
  • Liquipedia
  • TSL5
by Zealously w/ contributing writing from Wax


Let's take a trip back in time.

A little over eight years ago, TeamLiquid StarLeague 4 was announced. Eight years, as we all know, might as well be an eternity in esports terms. To put in perspective just how much StarCraft II has changed at a fundamental level, here's a brief snapshot of how the scene looked in April of 2012.

  • Heart of the Swarm, the first expansion for StarCraft II, was nearly a full year away. The framework for Brood Lord-Infestor had emerged, but had yet to evolve into the dreaded, all-swallowing plague it would become in the autumn of 2012.
  • KeSPA had not yet announced their official transition from Brood War to Starcraft II. In fact, the Tving OSL—the last OnGameNet StarLeague in Brood War—was still going on.
  • (Wiki)Mvp, (Wiki)NesTea and (Wiki)MC were still three of the most significant and most accomplished stars in Korea.
  • Forum arguments about whether Naniwa or Stephano was the true foreign hope were a daily occurrence.
  • (Wiki)elfi reigned as the top player in Finland. He didn't hog the spotlight, though—he actually took some time out to interview some up-and-coming youngsters from Finland...
  • (Wiki)Maru was in danger of becoming a footnote in the history of StarCraft II, having mostly flamed out after making headlines with his 2010 debut at the age of 13. (It would be 16 more months until he won his first championship in the OGN Starleague).
  • Region lock? What region lock? Top Korean players were a regular sight at international tournaments, either having qualified online or having had their flights paid for by major Western esports organizations.
  • (Wiki)Reynor was 9 years old.
  • Gangnam Style had not yet been loosed upon the world.
  • This is what Creator and Maru looked like:
[image loading]


But even though TSL4 took place in a completely different environment, it's still inextricably woven into the history of StarCraft II, a history with continuity up until the present day. Let's take a look at the most significant stories and events of TSL4, and their meaning in the larger context of StarCraft II.



Stories and Legends
1) Creator, at 15 Years of Age, Becomes One of the Fastest Rising Stars in StarCraft II

Maru had set the record for youngest GSL participant in 2010, and Life was building a reputation as a wildly unpredictable and entertaining player online, but it was (Wiki)Creator who won a championship first among the trio of rising stars born in 1997.

CreatorPrime was not particularly well known prior to TSL4, but he was gaining some renown for his powerful PvT—in particular, his precisely-tuned double-forge style. He qualified for TSL4 by defeating Brain, San, Sniper, Puzzle and Hack, and then went on to seize the championship after going through a gauntlet of SeleCT, CoCa, Hack, Sting and Life in the main event. It was an impressive run, the kind of run that could only be topped in GSL Code S or the biggest international events.

In the middle of climbing to the apex of the TSL4 mountain, Creator had his breakout in offline play as well. He made a shocking run to win the championship at the WCS Korea Nationals—an honor almost equal to winning Code S when considering the level of competition. Having won a chance to compete at the 2012 World Championship, Creator did not squander the opportunity. He went all the way to the finals, where he finished second place to PartinG in 2012's grand finale. At the time, it seemed inevitable that Creator would remain one of the game's best players for years to come.

And then... Nothing.

Much ado has been made about Creator's failure to live up to the potential revealed by those early successes. As fans, it's definitely easy to joke at the expense of the weaker, 'slumping' players, but at some point it stops being funny. Even the GSL casters sometimes struggle to put a positive spin on his chances at advancing from a group.

I'm normally reluctant to count players out of championship contention completely. It's disrespectful of the tremendous effort most professional athletes—be it esports or traditional sports—put into their craft. It's also an invitation to be mocked by the SC2 community forever if you're proven wrong. But with Creator, I feel we have surely reached a point where we can say that 2012 was the peak of his career.

Creator plays on the best Starcraft II team in the world, and has more SC2 experience than just about anyone left in the scene besides his teammate Maru. But for some reason, his play seems every bit as unrefined and clunky now as it was sharp and technical in 2012. Whatever lightning Creator managed to bottle in 2012 has escaped him, and it has not returned.

The chance of Creator returning to his 2012 form is infinitesimal. But maybe, one day, he'll be able to find a different kind of redemption. A miracle run to the Code S semifinals, akin to that of Hurricane? A clutch playoff performance in one of China's Team Leagues? A long-delayed title defense in a far off TSL? Only time will tell what remains in store for Creator.



2) Life, at 15 Years of Age, Becomes One of the Fastest Rising Stars in StarCraft II

After being hyped up by avid viewers of online cups as the next big thing, (Wiki)Life finally got a chance to show his skills to a broader audience in the summer of 2012. Playing for ZenEX in the GSTL, he all-killed the fan-favorite Team Liquid and took three-maps off a stacked SlayerS squad. Despite being mired in Code A at the time, some astute fans suspected a breakout was inevitable.

TSL4 turned out to be a golden opportunity. Life went through duckdeok, Revival, inori, and Sniper in the qualifiers before taking down elfi, Kas, Curious, and KeeN in the main event to reach the finals. Given that Life went BL-Infestor in many of his finals games, one might be surprised that Life actually lost. Well, what happened was that Life was a few months off from perfecting his late-game play, and his greater strength was still his aggressive play and peerless skirmishing micro. It's also a testament to how rock-solid Creator was at the time.

Still, a runner-up result for a previously undistinguished player was a huge success, and validated the hype from Life's long-time fans. As with Creator, Life's TSL run became a predictor of his future success. In the following season of Code S, he walked the royal road to win the championship (Mvp, unfortunately, fell victim to his perfected BL-Infestor).

After that, Life just couldn't stop winning tournaments. MLG Fall and Blizzard Cup victories came in 2012. He won Iron Squid, another MLG, and an IEM championship in 2013. Then, in 2014, a DreamHack title run was followed by his biggest triumph of all: WCS Global Finals at BlizzCon. In 2015, he won the IEM Taipei championship followed by his second Code S title. Then, at the end of the year, he made his second appearance in the BlizzCon finals, barely losing in a full-set series to sOs. That's one hell of a career.

And yet, after all that, Creator is not the most tragic finalist from TSL4.

3) SpeCial, then MajOr, Upsets HyuN in the First Round

In 2012, if you had asked fans which of the TSL4 alumni would be the best player in 2020, most of them would probably have picked Life or Creator. If not the two finalists, they would probably have picked one of the younger Koreans like TaeJa or KeeN. And if they had to pick a foreigner, the likely selection would have been ThorZaIN or NaNiwa due to their relative success vs Korean pros.

Surprisingly enough, the correct answer to this hypothetical question has turned out to be SpeCial—(Wiki)MajOr as he was known back then, when he was more famous for borrowing Korean progamer ID's than his actual StarCraft II skill.

No one could have predicted the incredible sequence of events that would lead to SpeCial becoming the TSL4 player who best stood the test of time. So many things had to happen: the KeSPA invasion that caused the eSF players to retire, the Korean invasion that caused an entire generation of foreigners to retire, the two separate chances MajOr received to chase of his childhood dream of being a StarCraft progamer in Korea...

But 2012 MajOr didn't become 2020 SpeCial just because of perseverance (though it has a lot to do it with it). He had to have the underlying skill and talent as well. That skill was apparent in MajOr's first round victory over (Wiki)HyuN in TSL4, which was one of the biggest upsets of the tournament.



At the time, HyuN was one of the KeSPA Brood War players who had been slightly late in switching to StarCraft II ( still before the mass, forced switch of 2013), but had made an immense amount of progress in a short period of time. Seeing as how he reached the Code S finals by the end of 2012, one might even say the summer's TSL4 should have been his breakout event.

Unfortunately for HyuN, he'd have to wait a bit longer to bask in the spotlight. MajOr ended up clinching a 3-2 reverse sweep victory by playing what were more or less straight-up games, even showing glimmers of the mech-obsession that has stuck with him to this day. You have to keep in mind that the post-Serral world order only accounts for a fraction of SC2 history. For most of competitive StarCraft II's existence, a foreigner beating a Korean in a BO5 by playing macro was almost unthinkable.

This upset was quickly forgotten in its time, as MajOr was eliminated by JonnyRecco in the following round and didn't record any notable results for quite a while after. But, with the benefit of perfect hindsight, maybe we should have seen there was something SpeCial in MajOr.

4) elfi, the Has Before Has, Befuddles Casters and Audience Alike

In World of WarCraft, there must be always be a Lich King. In the world of StarCraft, the cosmos dictates there must always be a cheese king.

So let me say one thing for those of you that did not watch Starcraft until after 2012: Has might be infamous for his innovative cheeses and hyper-aggressive style of Protoss play, but he follows in the footsteps of an equally demented giant. (Wiki)elfi, of whom Grubby somewhat notoriously said "he is too slow to be good", was every bit as strange and unorthodox an opponent as sOs and Has after him.

Like his successors, something about the way elfi played warped the rules of standard Starcraft, forcing players into a bizarro world where they couldn't beat a player with around 100 APM. Also like sOs and Has, elfi didn't necessarily need to win to be the star of a match. Elfi drew Life in the first round of the tournament—of course the Finnish Phenom v1.0 lost that match. What matters is that despite playing against a future GSL champion, against a player often praised as having the most mechanical talent of all time, Elfi still scrambled his opponent's brain and forced him all the way to a game five.

Watch these games. They've aged like fine cheese.
+ Show Spoiler [Mmmm.... Leipäjuusto] +













5) JonnyREcco Embarrasses NaNiwa, but NaNiwa Was Still Right

Patch 1.4.3, now infamous for its wide-reaching effects on Starcraft II, had gone live mid-February. Featuring a considerable buff to the Queen as a defensive unit (increasing its anti-ground range from 3 to 5), Zerg players suddenly had a strong defensive option directly from the Hatchery. Zerg's increased defensive capabilities made it even easier to establish double-upgraded Ling-Infestor—a versatile composition capable of handling all mid-game aggression or even winning games outright. Ling-Infestor transitioned beautifully into fast Brood Lords—a powerful unit that had previously been awkward to rush to.

Together, Brood Lord and Infestor seemed invincible. "Chain fungal" became something like a curse, "free units" a byword for poor game design. By the summer of 2012, the strategy was had already swept through the international scene, gifting success to a batch of players who had labored in mediocrity or even anonymity. The term "Patchzerg" was born. (Korea lagged behind on this trend initially, with Protoss dominating the summer months. Then, Sniper emerged in the fall).

One such player accused of being a so-called "PatchZerg" was (Wiki)JonnyREcco, a British youngster who had no notable results to speak of before TSL4. When he was matched up against the TSL3 runner-up (Wiki)NaNiwa in the first round, it's probably fair to say that most considered the result to be a foregone conclusion.

In retrospect that was probably ill-advised, given how Naniwa had lost to SortOf (another player of limited achievements prior to this period) not long before, and was considered weakest in PvZ. Furthermore, one of Naniwa's biggest weaknesses was his refusal to treat opponents he perceived as less than equals with the seriousness they might otherwise deserve. A relatively anonymous British player must have been particularly offensive to the rather prideful Swede.

And so, NaNiwa lost 1-3, all three of his losses coming to Brood Lord-Infestor. The Swede, known to have a way with words, expressed his feelings with an 'alternate GG.'

[image loading]

But, when you consider the career trajectories of these so-called "PatchZergs" in Heart of the Swarm, and the fact that NaNiwa secured two runner-up finishes in the new expansion... I guess you have to admit NaNiwa was right?

Where are they now?
Do you want to feel old?

I've written elsewhere that a year in StarCraft time is like five in the so-called 'real' world. In the 'real' world, you might spend four years in university just preparing to begin your career. In StarCraft, your career might have begun, played out, and ended in less time. How many players do you remember from TSL4? And whatever happened to them?

Let's start with a look back at the upper-half of the bracket.

(Wiki)ThorZaIN: Retired.
(Wiki)HasuObs: Retired.
(Wiki)MaNa: Currently active, and even joined the aforementioned tournament organizer's professional team in the time since!
(Wiki)Hack: Retired.
(Wiki)SaSe: Retired.
(Wiki)CoCa: Retired.
(Wiki)SeleCT: Retired. His StarCraft II experience might have earned him a unique opportunity, though!
(Wiki)Creator: Still active.
(Wiki)Nerchio: Inactive.
(Wiki)DarKFoRcE: Retired.
(Wiki)Beastyqt: Semi-retired from competitive play, but still crushing it as a streamer.
(Wiki)Sting: Retired.
(Wiki)Daisy: Retired.
(Wiki)First: Retired.
(Wiki)Bischu: Retired.
(Wiki)TaeJa: Currently active. At the time of TSL4, Taeja had just signed for Team Liquid and hadn't yet won any premier tournaments. In the time since, he had accrued 11 championships, finished his mandatory military service, and returned to professional Starcraft.

Alright - that's certainly a long list of retirees. It's hardly a coincidence that the still active players among the sixteen above are those that have achieved the most tournament success. In Starcraft, it's often success that breeds longevity.

As for the lower half:

(Wiki)Kas: Currently active. Of all the players from the TSL4 field still active today, maybe it's the TSL3 bronze medalist who feels most like a part of the StarCraft II furniture at this point.
(Wiki)fraer: Retired.
(Wiki)elfi: Retired. Lives his retired life rent-free in the minds of his former opponents and the hearts of his fans. The man's soul was split into several pieces and imbued others with his inimitable spirit.
(Wiki)Life: "Retired." Banned from competitive Starcraft in 2016 for match-fixing.
(Wiki)Ret: Retired then unretired and then I don't know.
(Wiki)Squirtle: Retired. Similar to Creator in having reached his peak in 2012. He played top four or better in four prestigious tournaments, including his infamous GSL Finals defeat against Mvp.
(Wiki)LaLuSh: Retired.
(Wiki)Curious: Retired. He's been seen on the GSL casting desk, as well as in the GSL qualifiers after finishing his military service.
(Wiki)VortiX: Retired. Still pops up every time there's a DreamHack Valencia to do weird s*** like eliminate Stephano.
(Wiki)BabyKnight: Retired.
(Wiki)Welmu: Retired.
(Wiki)KeeN: Retired. The TSL4 bronze medalist had a long and rather prolific career, which concluded (or at least was suspended) shortly after reaching the GSL quarterfinals during Season 3 last year in order for him to fulfill his military service.
(Wiki)MajOr: Still active, but now goes by Special. He achieved his longtime dream of joining a Proleague team and playing a televised Proleague match before the league was disbanded. Became one of the foreign scene's strongest players and retains that status today.
(Wiki)HyuN: Retired.
(Wiki)JonnyREcco: I must admit, I was surprised to learn the man who came to epitomize the "Patchzerg"-era made a return to competitive Starcraft in 2019, playing in a variety of qualifiers and online cups!
(Wiki)NaNiwa: Retired, but not before Nestea.

Okay, so that wasn't much different. Seen through the lens of 2020, TSL4 is a tome of ancient history, as it is with most events in 2012. It should come as no surprise to anyone that a game which has gone through both the twilight of Wings of Liberty and an entire expansion before transitioning into Legacy of the Void would be quite a different battleground—not least because almost every Korean pro eventually must commit nearly two years of their lives to military service, throwing a wrench in the works of any esports career.

Memory Lane: Liquid'MaNa Interview
With so many of TSL4's competitors retired or otherwise detached from the competitive scene, TSL5 represents both a departure from its previous iteration and a trip down memory lane for the rest of us. I talked to (Wiki)MaNa about past Teamliquid Starleagues, Starcraft II's development, his own fondest memories, and more.

[This interview has been edited and condensed]

[image loading]
2011: A young MaNa talks to GSL veteran Tester at IEM New York


Zealously: TL has always been an integral part of non-Korean Starcraft. Could you talk a little bit about what your TSL experience was/has been as a player, how did you regard TL as a tournament organizer/organization at the time compared to other tournaments?

Mana: I remember TSL being a big deal in Brood War days. Back then, there were barely any tournaments. We had World Cyber Games once a year, and that was pretty much it. TSL was the tournament to put your name out there. I remember the excitement when it was first announced and I was just an up and coming player. I failed to even do well in the ladder stage of TSL1, but in TSL2 I managed to place 3rd. I was very proud of myself because it was very difficult to achieve that. In the end I lost 3-0 in the qualifier to Castro. I was devastated. I was about to quit Starcraft because I had practiced so hard for this, and yet I lost with ease. Little did I know how little I actually knew about the game...

TL as a tournament organizer has been great. You could tell the difference from the other cups that this tournament was an important one. You had graphics, intros, rules, admins. People trying to cheat got caught. I will always remember TSL as a tournament that has been run properly.

Zealously: We've been through two expansions since then, but could you talk about modern SC2 vs 2012 from a gameplay perspective? What do you like in the game of today compared to back then? Do you think the game rewards good players more clearly now compared to earlier in the game's lifespan?

Mana: I definitely like the game more today than in WoL-era, especially balance-wise. I think the game has
come a long way and right now we can much more clearly see a player's dominance through skill. Like we had Neeb and now Serral dominating for a long period. We didn't have that back in the day, because the game was not as figured out and we didn't know how big of an impact maps can have on gameplay.

Zealously: What do you think about the modern competitive scene vs 2012's? Obviously with an ongoing pandemic throwing everything on its head things are a little different right now, but how is the experience as a professional player today compared to in 2012?

Mana: It's hard to imagine that it's has been so many years. For me it feels like just a month ago. Back then I thought tournaments were run smoothly, but I didn't pay much attention to how they were organised. It feels like in modern tournaments, even the online cups have a proper rulebook and seeding system. Back then, you could play an offline event and if you qualified for the next day you didn't even know if you'd play on the same computer, or if you'd have to set up everything from scratch on stage. Right now you pretty much always are assigned a computer and SSD with all your settings that will follow you throughout the tournament. It's crazy how the technology has advanced. There is always a schedule of how the tournament is going to look and what stream is going to show. Back in the day we basically just jumped into the games that were available. We didn't even have an analyst segment. It was just casters talking about the game. With having so many years of competitive play experience it feels very easy to join tournaments. Everything is well organised and has its place.

Zealously: The SC2 community has always been very focused on LAN events. Do you view offline tournaments as inherently more prestigious, or does it not matter much to you personally? Do you think you shine more in LAN tournaments or online, or about the same?

Mana: LAN tournaments are vastly different than online and much more important in my opinion. Not to even mention the potential cross-server play which might favor one player over the other. It's all about how you prepare for the environment of a LAN tournament. Not many people realise how difficult it is to perform after being in a completely new place for just a day or two, with different food, air, long travel and potential jet-lag. There are numerous conditions you need to take into consideration while competing offline, none of which factor in at home. I am pretty sure everybody plays better at home, but the true competitive spirit shows on LAN. After being a pro for over a decade now I much rather prefer playing on LAN, not because I play better but because I can adapt better than the newschoolers most of the time.

Zealously: Let's say you're in the TSL5 finals. Which player would you most like to face, out of all the players you think might also make it there?

Mana: I do not have a player I'd like to face in particular. If I got to the finals in such strong competition that means I can take on anyone. Obviously Serral is the player that first comes to mind to be in the finals and take it all. Other than him it's all up for grabs in my opinion.

Zealously: Creator won the last TSL in convincing fashion, but never really reached the championship-winning peak many people thought he would. To some people that might seem very odd, considering how good he was during that year. Do you think playing Protoss in 2012 required a different skillset compared to today, or did he simply have a
very good tournament streak that he couldn't repeat?

Mana: In 2012 the game was still very young. We are in the 10th year of Starcraft 2 right now, and we're still learning how the game works, how the units interact with each other to be efficient. I think it's very common in Starcraft 2 to have a new champion who goes back to the competition without being able to repeat the success. We see the examples of Rogue or Innovation getting knocked out in the early rounds of GSL after winning big overseas tournaments like IEM or WESG. I think Creator just had a great timing with his form peaking at the right time.

Zealously: TSL4 was eight years ago. This might mean TSL6 comes around in 2028. Where do you see yourself then?

Mana: I just want to be happy with what I am doing at that time. I do not want to be in a place that I regret I did not do something.

Zealously: And finally: you've achieved a lot in these ten years of SC2. What would you say have been the highlights of your career thus far?

Mana: I think my highlight is the WCS 2015 Premier League Season 3 Finals in Poland, where I was down 0-2 vs Happy in the Challenger League, almost being knocked out of the group stages but always bringing it back all the way to the grand finals. It was my favorite event of my career so far with so many great passionate fans arriving. I'm glad I was able to show great comebacks to make this event so memorable.

Number 2 would probably be the most recent event I did very well in, WCS 2018 Austin, similar to WCS 2015. It was just an event that I worked really hard for, and that hard work paid off. I played good games that I was proud of and I did not regret any plays.

One more thing comes to mind, and that's qualifying to the GSL Code S through the Up&Down matches, defeating HyuN and Keen. A lot of people simply said "you are not going to make it", "you are too weak" and it felt good to prove them wrong.

And Into The Future...
That feeling of triumphing over doubts - whether your own or others—and of defying expectations runs through almost all the tournaments we think of today as the highlights of StarCraft. The excitement in watching a new player rise to fame, in witnessing the meteoric ascent of a new star, is near-unmatched. It's why we remember so clearly duckdeok hoisting the WCS Europe trophy in 2013, why those incredible gauntlet runs of old MLG's or unlikely championship comebacks stand out so clearly in our minds. Tournaments that go according to expectation may very well all be entertaining, but they cannot usually join that elite class of tournaments that come to define years or eras of the game, that throw such concepts as 'common sense' and 'predictability' on their heads. It is here that the ability of tournament organizers to create successful events end, and where the rest of the story comes down to their competitors. ForGG winning Dreamhack against Life. Soulkey coming back to overcome INnoVation 4-3 in the Code S Finals. Pigbaby sweeping Taeja before going on to win WCS America. Such results not only stand out, they survive the test of time.

TSL4 is a historical record of a unique time and place in StarCraft II, starring two players who seemed destined for greatness. It was a tournament that showed us the future: both realities that came to pass, and those that were not destined to be.

What will TSL5 be?


Art by:

sponsor


Writer: Zealously
Contributing writer: Wax


Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-12 20:19:14
May 12 2020 20:18 GMT
#2
The part of this tournament I most remember is hearing some rumor about Sting and his friends squatting in a house together, and Wax and I constructed a whole fantasy about him living meal to meal on the run, hustling people for lunch money in StarCraft so him and his band of merry misfits could buy another can of gas to power the generator that provided them electricity and internet.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
May 12 2020 20:24 GMT
#3
What a trip down the memory lane. It certainly doesn't feel like it was 8 years ago.
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-12 20:44:04
May 12 2020 20:42 GMT
#4
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
monk
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States8476 Posts
May 12 2020 20:44 GMT
#5
Your creatorprime double forge PvT link doesn't work. D=
Moderator
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19215 Posts
May 12 2020 20:52 GMT
#6
(Wiki)JonnyREcco: I must admit, I was surprised to learn the man who came to epitomize the "Patchzerg"-era made a return to competitive Starcraft in 2019, playing in a variety of qualifiers and online cups!

Returns during a year in which people were really upset with the balance of Zergs lol.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19215 Posts
May 12 2020 20:53 GMT
#7
On May 13 2020 05:44 monk wrote:
Your creatorprime double forge PvT link doesn't work. D=

That's because the build is broken + Show Spoiler +
Zing!
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
TheOneAboveU
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Germany3367 Posts
May 12 2020 20:54 GMT
#8
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.
Moderatoralias TripleM | @TL_TripleM | Big Dark Energy!
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
May 12 2020 20:58 GMT
#9
Ah man, I remember these days. Heady with Creator's successes...
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55471 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-12 21:07:15
May 12 2020 20:59 GMT
#10
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

While he may have never re-reached the heights of his GSL win, it's not like RorO completely dropped off a cliff in HotS. He was a top 2 Zerg in Proleague for the two seasons he competed in it in HotS, as well as by far the best player on his team. Even made a few Ro8s in HotS. I don't think he deserves the Patchzerg branding anywhere near as much as Sniper or a few others.

RorO fact nobody asked for: in 2014 Proleague Samsung almost made it to the year-end playoffs (they finished 5th overall), but RorO was the only player on the team with a winrate above 50%.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
May 12 2020 21:07 GMT
#11
Who the hell is casting with Apollo in the Elfi/Life series? I watched the first 5 minutes and its bothering the hell out of me. Also I forgot TSL4 had that banger of an intro and now expect great things from TSL5
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24417 Posts
May 12 2020 21:08 GMT
#12
Man I'm glad the other finalist didn't win TSL4 or this retrospective probably wouldn't exist
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
LemonyTang
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom428 Posts
May 12 2020 21:18 GMT
#13
On May 13 2020 06:07 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Who the hell is casting with Apollo in the Elfi/Life series? I watched the first 5 minutes and its bothering the hell out of me. Also I forgot TSL4 had that banger of an intro and now expect great things from TSL5


Are you kidding me? It's Chill!
Mvp #1
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
May 12 2020 21:19 GMT
#14
On May 13 2020 06:18 LemonyTang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 06:07 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Who the hell is casting with Apollo in the Elfi/Life series? I watched the first 5 minutes and its bothering the hell out of me. Also I forgot TSL4 had that banger of an intro and now expect great things from TSL5


Are you kidding me? It's Chill!


Forgive me for hearing his voice once every eight years
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55471 Posts
May 12 2020 21:19 GMT
#15
On May 13 2020 06:07 chipmonklord17 wrote:
Who the hell is casting with Apollo in the Elfi/Life series? I watched the first 5 minutes and its bothering the hell out of me. Also I forgot TSL4 had that banger of an intro and now expect great things from TSL5

Without watching to confirm, probably Chill. Chill either casts or gets out.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
fishjie
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1519 Posts
May 12 2020 21:31 GMT
#16
wow thanks for this blast from the past. i can't believe i forgot many of these players. one players i am glad to forget is johnny recco. many players heroically pointed out the awfulness of gglords and winfestors. the only time avilo was right, and he was ridiculed on state of the game. naniwa was right in his rage, as was ryung crying out imba imba imba. naniwa and ryung went on to be good, whereas recco and sniper fell off the face of the earth!!!!
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
May 12 2020 21:32 GMT
#17
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect
AdministratorBreak the chains
RPR_Tempest
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia7798 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-12 21:50:32
May 12 2020 21:37 GMT
#18
Patchzergs were a myth. Every so-called patchzerg either A. Won one or two series (such as JonnyREcco here) and like, upsets happen in SC2 every week, one or two series wins does not a patchzerg make. Ziktomini was another example. He beat DeMusliM (who wasn't even particularly good in the foreign scene) one time and gets accused of being a patchzerg. Then he doesn't do anything ever again. Like, the dude won ONE series, clearly this is imbalance at work! Plenty of people have fluked wins out over superior opponents, and it'll keep happening for as long as SC2 exists.

B. Were the players like Sniper or sLivko who had sudden success that made it SEEM like it was due to the patch but in reality they were just carried by their ZvZ. Like really, the vast majority of their impressive wins in that time were ZvZ.

Or C. Were really good before the patch and their rise to the top level just coincided with the patch, drawing complaints. Good examples of this type are Goswser (who literally beat Polt at MLG in 2011 ffs, he was clearly always on the rise) and VortiX (who nobody thinks of as a patchzerg anymore because he got GREAT results long afterwards, but at the time hoooooly shit did people hate this dude).

I'm not denying that broodlord/infestor was imbalanced and shitty to watch, but there were never any patchzergs.
Soundwave, Zerg player from Canberra, Australia. @SoundwaveSC
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18820 Posts
May 12 2020 21:49 GMT
#19
Gotta admit, pieces like this are getting me hyped, the nostalgia is strong.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33239 Posts
May 12 2020 22:03 GMT
#20
Young Maru is the cutest
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
catplanetcatplanet
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3829 Posts
May 12 2020 22:14 GMT
#21
Thanks zealously for the great write-up in all honesty one of my favorite things about TSL4 was the content the writing staff produced, there were awesome hype threads with fan interviews and the like that gave the whole affair a real community feel. Looking forward to seeing what TSL5 brings!
I think it's finally time to admit it might not be the year of Pet
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8988 Posts
May 12 2020 22:42 GMT
#22
On May 13 2020 05:59 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

While he may have never re-reached the heights of his GSL win, it's not like RorO completely dropped off a cliff in HotS. He was a top 2 Zerg in Proleague for the two seasons he competed in it in HotS, as well as by far the best player on his team. Even made a few Ro8s in HotS. I don't think he deserves the Patchzerg branding anywhere near as much as Sniper or a few others.

RorO fact nobody asked for: in 2014 Proleague Samsung almost made it to the year-end playoffs (they finished 5th overall), but RorO was the only player on the team with a winrate above 50%.


Never forget when Sniper beat ByuL in proleague and ruined his perfect round as well as IM shot at a playoff spot then retired forever.
I actually think Sniper could have had a decent career if he just had took the memo and get the hell out of Korea, although switching to HOTS wasn't a bad idea either.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13969 Posts
May 12 2020 22:47 GMT
#23
ah yes, the tournament that made me love creator, and oh my i forgot squirtle existed :O
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19215 Posts
May 12 2020 23:01 GMT
#24
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
CicadaSC
Profile Joined January 2018
United States1480 Posts
May 12 2020 23:08 GMT
#25
thank you so much for all of this. It's crazy seeing how young Maru, Creator, and Mana look. That's when it really hits you how long its been. They were babies ;_;
Remember that we all come from a place of passion!!
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13969 Posts
May 12 2020 23:09 GMT
#26
On May 13 2020 08:01 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.

RorO just gets hated on cuz he was good
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
catplanetcatplanet
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3829 Posts
May 12 2020 23:15 GMT
#27
On May 13 2020 08:09 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 08:01 BisuDagger wrote:
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.

RorO just gets hated on cuz he was good

I'll take roro's gsl win a million times over sniper's, I'm still a little pissed on behalf of ryung
I think it's finally time to admit it might not be the year of Pet
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33239 Posts
May 12 2020 23:40 GMT
#28
In my seminal work, The Most Loathsome Patchzergs of All Time, RorO earns the #3 spot on the list for being the absolute best to ever play BL-Infestor, but gets leniency for being very good in early HotS before he decided to retire
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2709 Posts
May 12 2020 23:52 GMT
#29
Wow, I haven't even started following professional Starcraft at the time of TSL4 (I was watching "helloeveryonethisishtotheuskyhuskyhere"). I pretty much got into watching tournaments in late 2012 (when Scarlett came onto the scene). I remember rooting for Stephano and Life a lot (the non-patchzergs) and defending Broodlord-Infestor as balanced

Also we're all 8 years older now >: (
very illegal and very uncool
Aesto
Profile Joined September 2014
44 Posts
May 13 2020 00:25 GMT
#30
Just watched that Life/Creator game 1. Honestly, the level of play back then was so much less refined than it is today. They both make so many mistakes, throw away units left and right, and the casters just act like that's normal - because of course, back then it was. I don't think Creator has gotten worse, it's just that everyone else has gotten much, much better.
Carminedust
Profile Joined October 2014
487 Posts
May 13 2020 01:04 GMT
#31
rOrO the man the myth the legend the last WOL gsl winner by out bl/infestor Symbol and ruined of many many fantasy proleague teams and the user of Swarm host to frustrate everyone
Maybe was Zoun only Fan before he retired idk
chipmonklord17
Profile Joined February 2011
United States11944 Posts
May 13 2020 01:39 GMT
#32
All this sniper talk and no one has posted the Sniper ruins Christmas photo.

Also Ziktomini is the most patch zerg patch zerg. Proof? Ya'll didn't even think to mention him because he was so irrelevant after.
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3093 Posts
May 13 2020 01:54 GMT
#33
It's nice to go down memory lane every now and then. I have so many good memories of the beginning of sc2. 2010-2012 was such a fun time for me sc2 wise.
Artosis loves Starcraft
catplanetcatplanet
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
3829 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-13 02:00:04
May 13 2020 01:59 GMT
#34
On May 13 2020 10:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:
All this sniper talk and no one has posted the Sniper ruins Christmas photo.

Good call

[image loading]
I think it's finally time to admit it might not be the year of Pet
Solar424
Profile Blog Joined June 2013
United States4001 Posts
May 13 2020 02:07 GMT
#35
Sniper made Eve cry and killed SlayerS in one night with the most broken composition in SC2 history, then went on to be a champion in Heroes, he's the embodiment of evil.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49995 Posts
May 13 2020 02:07 GMT
#36
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect


lol of all the things here, this is the one that takes me back to that time the most
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
StalkyBear
Profile Joined October 2019
55 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-13 02:30:11
May 13 2020 02:23 GMT
#37
Poll: Who is the Cutest young Pro-Gamer

Maru (18)
 
60%

Creator (5)
 
17%

Serral (5)
 
17%

Reynor (2)
 
7%

anybody else (0)
 
0%

30 total votes

Your vote: Who is the Cutest young Pro-Gamer

(Vote): Maru
(Vote): Creator
(Vote): Reynor
(Vote): Serral
(Vote): anybody else

StalkyBear
Profile Joined October 2019
55 Posts
May 13 2020 02:26 GMT
#38
On May 13 2020 07:03 Waxangel wrote:
Young Maru is the cutest

I dunno, Ive never been a fan of wristbands...young Serral however <3 <3 <3
+ Show Spoiler +
DinosaurJones
Profile Joined February 2012
United States1000 Posts
May 13 2020 02:54 GMT
#39
I remember TSL3 more than TSL4, personally... but I still can't believe it's been that long. That list of the active players of TSL4 and how many of them have retired... oof.
Cricketer12
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
United States13969 Posts
May 13 2020 03:04 GMT
#40
On May 13 2020 08:15 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 08:09 Cricketer12 wrote:
On May 13 2020 08:01 BisuDagger wrote:
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.

RorO just gets hated on cuz he was good

I'll take roro's gsl win a million times over sniper's, I'm still a little pissed on behalf of ryung

poor ryung
Kaina + Drones Linkcro Summon Cupsie Yummy Way
DBooN
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2727 Posts
May 13 2020 05:43 GMT
#41
On May 13 2020 12:04 Cricketer12 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 08:15 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
On May 13 2020 08:09 Cricketer12 wrote:
On May 13 2020 08:01 BisuDagger wrote:
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.

RorO just gets hated on cuz he was good

I'll take roro's gsl win a million times over sniper's, I'm still a little pissed on behalf of ryung

poor ryung

Ryung deserved what he got for dying to WoL Ultralisks while complaining about balance!
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-13 07:24:05
May 13 2020 07:20 GMT
#42
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Your face is incorrect...


RorO was ana amzing player that was unfortunate to be judged by the fact that BL/inf netted him a GSL win, a feat that he could not quite repeat, so people just called him a patchzerg and called it a day when the guy was busy carrying his dead weight of a team in Proleague.


Calling RorO a patchzerg is like a litmus test for "once-in-2-months-I-watch-GSL" Starcraft fans

Only need this guy now who called Life better than RorO when the latter was winning GSL and the former beating GSL drop outs in Iron Squid

"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
May 13 2020 07:36 GMT
#43
On May 13 2020 08:01 BisuDagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.


Roro was never great in any sense of the word
AdministratorBreak the chains
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES49995 Posts
May 13 2020 07:40 GMT
#44
On May 13 2020 16:36 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 08:01 BisuDagger wrote:
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.


Roro was never great in any sense of the word


great at putting Bisu's fans in tears.

good enough for me.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
TL+ Member
Zealously
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
East Gorteau22261 Posts
May 13 2020 07:42 GMT
#45
On May 13 2020 16:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 16:36 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 08:01 BisuDagger wrote:
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Roro was a legitimate BW zerg player before the switch. I think being extremely good at both RTSs puts you outside the patch label. You can still say the patch heavily influenced his peak success, but it was not the only reason he was great at SC2.


Roro was never great in any sense of the word


great at putting Bisu's fans in tears.

good enough for me.


Good point actually I think I might come around to appreciating some of his contributions after all
AdministratorBreak the chains
yoigen
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany369 Posts
May 13 2020 08:08 GMT
#46
the best part about tsl4 was the story of the peoples champion mycerion nearly qualifying for the main event...
Today I didn't even have to use my AK, I gotta say it was a good day.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6831 Posts
May 13 2020 08:25 GMT
#47
young Serral and Baby Maru so cute <3
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2212 Posts
May 13 2020 09:31 GMT
#48
Amazing, thank you.
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
Oukka
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Finland1683 Posts
May 13 2020 09:36 GMT
#49
I remember watching that elfi vs Life series and being upset at the proud finnish cheeselord not being able to finish off yet another korean zerg. It's funny to think what became of that zerg, and how close elfi got to eliminating him on ro32 in maybe his breakout tournament.
I play children's card games and watch a lot of dota, CS and HS
Nopeudon
Profile Joined March 2012
172 Posts
May 13 2020 12:08 GMT
#50
Dang tiny Maru is so cute
Teoita
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Italy12246 Posts
May 13 2020 13:43 GMT
#51
Man I remember going through every single PvZ in the Korean qualifiers to do the replay pack for our giant PvZ guide with monk. That was what led me to becoming a TL staff member.

Also, do the other TSLs too pls! We need more nostalgia!
ModeratorProtoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.
sneakyfox
Profile Joined January 2017
8216 Posts
May 13 2020 14:16 GMT
#52
Great article! Looking forward to the next installment.
"I saw what sneakyfox wrote on TL.net and it made me furious" - PartinG
LemonyTang
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom428 Posts
May 13 2020 14:34 GMT
#53
On May 13 2020 17:08 yoigen wrote:
the best part about tsl4 was the story of the peoples champion mycerion nearly qualifying for the main event...


this is true tbh. main tournament wasnt as exciting as tsl3
Mvp #1
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France12762 Posts
May 13 2020 14:49 GMT
#54
Seeing the results of johnnyrecco in this tournament makes me so tilted still haha. What a plague sc2 became at that period... Partly explains why I almost didn't play for all of HotS, after seeing / playing the end of WoL.

Cute young Maru and Creator prevents me from puking though.
ThorZain storyline in TSL3 saved the tournament from the korean lagging hard joke that it was for so many rounds, but I didn't really remember TSL4.

Hope Clem will prevail in TSL5 tho.
WriterMaru
Falckon
Profile Joined January 2011
Norway30 Posts
May 13 2020 19:41 GMT
#55
Great trip down memory lane! (thanks for including Raynors age... i feel old)
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
May 13 2020 20:03 GMT
#56
So Life 4-0 Creator in finals if he acutally played? LUL
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
May 14 2020 07:29 GMT
#57
Oh nice retro. Totally forgot about TSL4 and thought TSL3 was TSL4 for some reason. For a moment when I was looking at the bracket and was like where's SlayerS_BoXeR. Haha. Good stuff.
Someone call down the Thunder?
Psychonian
Profile Joined March 2012
United States2322 Posts
May 14 2020 08:24 GMT
#58
On May 13 2020 05:03 TL.net ESPORTS wrote:
And yet, after all that, Creator is not the most tragic finalist from TSL4.


Trans Rights
Vendethiel
Profile Joined February 2017
213 Posts
May 14 2020 16:35 GMT
#59
HyuN: Retired.
That's a bit unfair, he went back to play BW for a long while. Unsure if he still is active.
Maru <3
StalkyBear
Profile Joined October 2019
55 Posts
May 15 2020 02:28 GMT
#60
On May 13 2020 16:20 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 06:32 Zealously wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:54 TheOneAboveU wrote:
On May 13 2020 05:42 Bagration wrote:
God, that was a long time ago, the "patch-zerg" era.

Still believe that Sniper and RoRo were the biggest patch-zergs - those dudes patched themselves a GSL title apiece

I have to jump into the breach for RorO here. He may have won his GSL during that era, but he was a genuinely good player imo. I don't think putting him into the Patchzerg category does him justice.


This opinion is incorrect

Your face is incorrect...


RorO was ana amzing player that was unfortunate to be judged by the fact that BL/inf netted him a GSL win, a feat that he could not quite repeat, so people just called him a patchzerg and called it a day when the guy was busy carrying his dead weight of a team in Proleague.


Calling RorO a patchzerg is like a litmus test for "once-in-2-months-I-watch-GSL" Starcraft fans

Only need this guy now who called Life better than RorO when the latter was winning GSL and the former beating GSL drop outs in Iron Squid


I have a friend exactly like that: every few months hell watch the gsl finals and lamely post in r/starcraft occasionally to act like he still gives a shit but he doesnt. if he wants to miss seeing the best games cause "only the finals are worth watching" than hes too dumb to deserve seeing them.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
May 15 2020 08:46 GMT
#61
On May 15 2020 01:35 Vendethiel wrote:
Show nested quote +
HyuN: Retired.
That's a bit unfair, he went back to play BW for a long while. Unsure if he still is active.

He went to play BW, went to the army, went back to BW, now is kinda inactive. By all means, however, he is retired from SC2
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
yoigen
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany369 Posts
May 15 2020 09:41 GMT
#62
On May 13 2020 23:34 LemonyTang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 17:08 yoigen wrote:
the best part about tsl4 was the story of the peoples champion mycerion nearly qualifying for the main event...


this is true tbh. main tournament wasnt as exciting as tsl3


Yes, TSL3 was way better. Goody beating Nestea, Thorzain vs KAS, Thorzain vs MC. I dont remember a single series from TSL4.
Today I didn't even have to use my AK, I gotta say it was a good day.
[UoN]Sentinel
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States11320 Posts
May 15 2020 16:38 GMT
#63
I remember all my faves getting eliminated in the first round of TSL4 and a lot of infestor broodlord. TSL3 was a godly tournament though.

I'm 23 and this made me feel old
Нас зовет дух отцов, память старых бойцов, дух Москвы и твердыня Полтавы
Dynge
Profile Joined July 2012
Denmark46 Posts
May 17 2020 08:30 GMT
#64
Great read! Thanks for writing this article. So much fun being reminded of the old days.
Kinky
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States4126 Posts
May 19 2020 14:45 GMT
#65
Nice writeup Definitely brought back all the nostalgic feels from the early days.
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-05-25 01:53:30
May 25 2020 01:51 GMT
#66
EDIT: No I wasn't. I miscounted.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
bjornkavist
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada1235 Posts
May 26 2020 04:37 GMT
#67
I miss the storylines of TSL series, excited for new ones! great trip down memory lane
https://soundcloud.com/bbols
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2747 Posts
May 26 2020 08:15 GMT
#68
On May 15 2020 18:41 yoigen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 13 2020 23:34 LemonyTang wrote:
On May 13 2020 17:08 yoigen wrote:
the best part about tsl4 was the story of the peoples champion mycerion nearly qualifying for the main event...


this is true tbh. main tournament wasnt as exciting as tsl3


Yes, TSL3 was way better. Goody beating Nestea, Thorzain vs KAS, Thorzain vs MC. I dont remember a single series from TSL4.


Don't forget Aldescott vs mvp.
Pretty sure my old doggo still remembers my screamings and cheering from this moment x)
Polarexia
Profile Joined November 2010
United States383 Posts
May 26 2020 12:23 GMT
#69
WAIT HANG ON
"2011: A young MaNa talks to GSL veteran Tester at IEM New York"
That's SangHo in the picture next to MaNa
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Road to EWC
15:00
DreamHack Dallas Group Stage
ewc_black2419
ComeBackTV 1648
SteadfastSC914
CranKy Ducklings249
Rex144
EnkiAlexander 106
CosmosSc2 95
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 914
Rex 144
CosmosSc2 95
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 22353
Calm 4690
Shuttle 886
EffOrt 751
Stork 282
Dewaltoss 158
ggaemo 61
Aegong 58
scan(afreeca) 29
Backho 20
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 15
HiyA 10
Sexy 7
Dota 2
Gorgc8631
qojqva2801
420jenkins171
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
fl0m3276
Foxcn296
Stewie2K287
flusha158
edward88
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang0153
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu598
Khaldor174
Other Games
FrodaN3762
gofns2731
Grubby1980
tarik_tv1164
Beastyqt811
Trikslyr38
EmSc Tv 13
Organizations
Other Games
EmSc Tv 13
StarCraft 2
EmSc2Tv 13
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• kabyraGe 157
• Adnapsc2 17
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki33
• FirePhoenix9
• blackmanpl 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2876
League of Legends
• TFBlade1016
Counter-Strike
• Nemesis3281
Other Games
• imaqtpie1582
• Shiphtur285
• Scarra111
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
14h 57m
SC Evo League
16h 57m
Road to EWC
19h 57m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 9h
BeSt vs Soulkey
Road to EWC
1d 18h
Wardi Open
2 days
SOOP
3 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
GSL Code S
4 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Online Event
4 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
GSL Code S
5 days
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.