EPTSC2 Power Rank: September 2019 - Page 2
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19300 Posts
| ||
|
tigon_ridge
482 Posts
On September 14 2019 09:37 JJH777 wrote: Reynor is only consistent in WCS. In every other event this year he has performed as an average foreigner would and that is a pretty big sample size at this point. IEM, WESG, Assembly, Homestory Cup, GSL vs the world. At all of those events he was only top 16 or worse. And it's not like he was only losing to the best of the best either. He was eliminated by players like Heromarine, Special, and Creator, Ptitdrogo, and Neeb in those events. All very good but none of them have been top 10 in the world at any point this year. Reynor being in the top 10 would definitely be foreigner bias. Inconsistent logic. Out of those players you listed, three of them even Serral has occasionally lost series to. Dark dropped in a terrible 1-3 series to Elazer. Still a very highly regarded player. The point is, you can't say "player X is not top 10 because player X has lost series to players who are not even in the top 10. That's not the rubric by which you should measure a player's overall strength. | ||
|
Dave4
494 Posts
On September 14 2019 10:20 BisuDagger wrote: Good for Serral! This PR was easy. I am more excited to see it in a month. Does winning a GSL bump Serral if he plays in nothing? It's a good question. I think it will probably sadly be the case that Serral can't hold his spot despite never losing. Of the remaining GSL players Dark is 2, Maru is 3, Trap is 4 and Rogue is 9. Rogue is probably the only one Serral could still be on top of based on the way TL writers have historically significantly weighted GSL wins. Which is kind of weird, one of them has to win by default so Serral can't possibly hold his position even though head to head he is clearly the favourite against any of them. Basically I think there will be one PR before BlizzCon, which will put whoever wins GSL as number 1 and Serral as 2 or 3. Then Serral will either win BlizzCon and reclaim it, or get anything but victory and fall down the rankings. He is just unfortunate to be in a situation where he is expected to win everything and anything but that is failure. Meanwhile, Maru beat Ragnarok and jumped 3 places  | ||
|
JJH777
United States4415 Posts
On September 14 2019 10:28 tigon_ridge wrote: Inconsistent logic. Out of those players you listed, three of them even Serral has occasionally lost series to. Dark dropped in a terrible 1-3 series to Elazer. Still a very highly regarded player. The point is, you can't say "player X is not top 10 because player X has lost series to players who are not even in the top 10. That's not the rubric by which you should measure a player's overall strength. The difference is that example is Dark's only loss this year to a player not in the top 10 (offline). The fact is Reynor has had 5 chances to finish top 10 in an international event this year and he hasn't done it once. Several of those events were double elimination as well so it's hard to argue he's had bad brackets. You say I'm using inconsistent logic but your only real reason for putting Reynor in the top 10 is that he's beat Serral a few times. That's not enough. | ||
|
droppanda
Australia176 Posts
Trap no doubt going to be number one, just a matter of time. He's recent results and play should put him above maru. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On September 14 2019 10:28 tigon_ridge wrote: Inconsistent logic. Out of those players you listed, three of them even Serral has occasionally lost series to. Dark dropped in a terrible 1-3 series to Elazer. Still a very highly regarded player. The point is, you can't say "player X is not top 10 because player X has lost series to players who are not even in the top 10. That's not the rubric by which you should measure a player's overall strength. Reynor still didn't do anything good in tournament where other player of the top 10 were involved, he almost always placed behind the rest of the top 10 while in tournament with them (or at least tie with them) with of course the exception of Serral in WCS. I would still have him at 10 I think, but it's fair to bump him out | ||
|
Anc13nt
1557 Posts
| ||
|
Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 14 2019 12:08 Anc13nt wrote: yeah Serral is a clear #1. He 3-1'd three top koreans in a row GSL vs the World with ruthless efficiency and won Montreal while dropping only 2 maps. Wasn't it one map? | ||
|
D-light
Finland7364 Posts
| ||
|
tilhorizon
Germany191 Posts
On September 14 2019 06:30 IshinShishi wrote: Once again TL with their foreigner bias, cant take these PRs seriously anymore, jesus i think many people dont know alligulac and the elo ratings in the entire history of sc2 serral is the highest ranked player overal serral is the highest ranked player vs protoss serral is the highest ranked player vs terran maru is the highest ranked player vs zerg serral is the second highest player vs zerg showtime is the third highest player vs zerg | ||
|
tigon_ridge
482 Posts
| ||
|
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On September 14 2019 12:19 tilhorizon wrote: i think many people dont know alligulac and the elo ratings in the entire history of sc2 serral is the highest ranked player overal serral is the highest ranked player vs protoss serral is the highest ranked player vs terran maru is the highest ranked player vs zerg serral is the second highest player vs zerg showtime is the third highest player vs zerg You know saying Showtime got the 3rd ever ranking vs Zerg despite playing like 15 maps against Korean zergs in the last 2 years and having a great, but not out of this world, winrate against zerg despite a bunch of online win vs lower level player dosen't really help to take elo at face value. Elo ranking have a natural tendency to scale upward with time I think. It's a thing with the equation behind it. (don't ask me why, but I'm sure people better at map than me could explain it) | ||
|
UnLarva
458 Posts
Seriously, one persistent reason (no matter how minor) less to whine. | ||
|
Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On September 14 2019 09:37 JJH777 wrote: Reynor is only consistent in WCS. In every other event this year he has performed as an average foreigner would and that is a pretty big sample size at this point. IEM, WESG, Assembly, Homestory Cup, GSL vs the world. At all of those events he was only top 16 or worse. And it's not like he was only losing to the best of the best either. He was eliminated by players like Heromarine, Special, and Creator, Ptitdrogo, and Neeb in those events. All very good but none of them have been top 10 in the world at any point this year. Reynor being in the top 10 would definitely be foreigner bias. While I agree that Reynor hasn't looked like the kind of player that would ideally populate these rankings, being highly dominant in one league and placing mediocre-ly in most others sounds like a player who is often found on the upper rungs of the Power rankings: Maru. | ||
|
Kitai
United States879 Posts
Oh no, I don't think the community could handle that again (unless they actually met offline). Well-deserved #1, 'twas a long time coming. I'm a bit conflicted about Dark's rank. Elazer's victory over him was a pretty significant upset, and his win over TY didn't look super convincing. The 5th map in his 3-2 victory seems pretty heavily anti-terran (0-4 vs zerg and 4-10 vs protoss so far), and TY himself hasn't looked to be at his highest power level recently. But then again, Dark's record since the start of May has been pretty damn good and I can't see anyone besides maybe Maru, Stats, or Serral who'd be favored over him... so even though it feels weird for him to hold the #2 spot I guess it was the right call! | ||
|
UnLarva
458 Posts
On September 14 2019 12:36 Nakajin wrote: You know saying Showtime got the 3rd ever ranking vs Zerg despite playing like 15 maps against Korean zergs in the last 2 years and having a great, but not out of this world, winrate against zerg despite a bunch of online win vs lower level player dosen't really help to take elo at face value. Elo ranking have a natural tendency to scale upward with time I think. It's a thing with the equation behind it. (don't ask me why, but I'm sure people better at map than me could explain it) Yes. New introduced players to the Aligulac ranking lists is the primary cause for rating inflation (they bring new rating points to the system, that then spread over the field), especially those who then soon disappear from it due inactivity. But rating inflation apply equally to all active players. Comparisons in absolute sense between let's say List 200 and List 249 or over some other long time frame doesn't make much sense (as relevancy and accuracy decline more time has gone by), but relative comparisons within same list(s) does. Higher the gap over your opponents, more higher winning percentage must be maintained to keep still improving in ratings. That's exactly what has happened recently with Serral's ratings; big increases are possible for him only because his win rate has been ridiculously high, sweeping his top level opponents with 3-0, 3-1, 4-1 scores. 3-2, 4-3 type map scores per match against same opponents would likely cause a drop in his ratings, even if he would continue winning. Something like that happened already after 2018 WCS Montreal. Win rate influence to the 'expected score' of each match, which in turn cause that more higher statistical expectation goes, more higher the win rate must stay to get any improvements to rating. Aligulac ratings continue to inflate, but that doesn't have impact to comparisons between players within some particular list #XXX. But regardless of the list, its extremely difficult to maintain big gap at the top of it. Note that Aligulac HOF points is essentially a cumulative sum of rating gaps to each lists top 7, so its value accumulation isn't sensitive to rating inflation. Edit: clarifications added. Some Aligulac wiz should make further clarifications if needed. | ||
|
SetStndbySmn
United States657 Posts
| ||
|
IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
| ||
|
UnLarva
458 Posts
Serral is 45–8 (84.91%) in games and 16–0 (100.00%) in matches. Against Koreans, Serral is 10–3 (76.92%) in games and 4–0 (100.00%) in matches. Map lost against: TY, Trap, Classic, Elazer (2), uThermal, HeroMarine, Reynor. The "Worst" opponent lost against was UThermal (26th, 2500+). Good form! Hardly possible to maintain in Blizzcon, tbh. | ||
|
Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 14 2019 14:50 IshinShishi wrote: you guys are getting baited too easily these days haha Need that picture of "I was only pretending" here | ||
| ||
