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On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all...
This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but my hierarchy of preferences:
1) This tournament happens but NO WCS points.
2) This tournament doesn't happen
3) This tournament happens with WCS points
This is the 2nd time this year that a major change has been made to the WCS Circuit (the first being regarding playing in GSL and WCS Challenger) and that's 2 changes too many since stability is necessary for players to make informed decisions for their career.
This prize pool is not significant enough to overcome that.
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Canada8988 Posts
On June 19 2019 21:40 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 21:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all... Same with the WCG Tournament announcement. TL getting more toxic by the day :/ What's toxic about being realistic? Can you point the toxic reactions, please? Because all I saw was calming down the hype because, let's face it, it doesn't look as promising as people are trying to make it.
It's litteraly the first big european open lan not run by Take or Blizz to be anounce since Dreamhack left 3 years ago. Even if it's just foreigner it's great news!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 19 2019 22:00 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 21:40 deacon.frost wrote:On June 19 2019 21:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all... Same with the WCG Tournament announcement. TL getting more toxic by the day :/ What's toxic about being realistic? Can you point the toxic reactions, please? Because all I saw was calming down the hype because, let's face it, it doesn't look as promising as people are trying to make it. Maybe toxic is the wrong word here. I apologize Fact is: There is a tournament where none was before. Most people here appreciate that fact. Some are just looking to make everything bad
Where? Show me the posts. I don't think it makes them look bad as people are trying to calm down the hype, IMO.
e.g. somebody posted Maru v Serral final this time. Let's check the HSC thread, Naruto's post and that 100k requirement for Maru to leave Korea. If thsi would be in a close vicinity of Korea(China, Japan) I can see the moeny requirement lowered, but this is Finland. One example of how this thread is hyped over 9k.
On June 19 2019 22:07 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 21:40 deacon.frost wrote:On June 19 2019 21:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all... Same with the WCG Tournament announcement. TL getting more toxic by the day :/ What's toxic about being realistic? Can you point the toxic reactions, please? Because all I saw was calming down the hype because, let's face it, it doesn't look as promising as people are trying to make it. It's litteraly the first big european open lan not run by Take or Blizz to be anounce since Dreamhack left 3 years ago. Even if it's just foreigner it's great news!
And I haven't seen anyone saying anything against this, but I'm blind, maybe I missed such posts 
Edit> Fine, boggyb above you.
On June 19 2019 21:57 ordeal11 wrote:This is huge, perhaps start of new era of foreigner + korean tournament?
Doubt it. WCS players mostly, especially if the qualifier will be forced to the European server region
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On June 19 2019 22:13 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 22:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 21:40 deacon.frost wrote:On June 19 2019 21:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all... Same with the WCG Tournament announcement. TL getting more toxic by the day :/ What's toxic about being realistic? Can you point the toxic reactions, please? Because all I saw was calming down the hype because, let's face it, it doesn't look as promising as people are trying to make it. Maybe toxic is the wrong word here. I apologize Fact is: There is a tournament where none was before. Most people here appreciate that fact. Some are just looking to make everything bad Where? Show me the posts. I don't think it makes them look bad as people are trying to calm down the hype, IMO. e.g. somebody posted Maru v Serral final this time. Let's check the HSC thread, Naruto's post and that 100k requirement for Maru to leave Korea. If thsi would be in a close vicinity of Korea(China, Japan) I can see the moeny requirement lowered, but this is Finland. One example of how this thread is hyped over 9k. Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 22:07 Nakajin wrote:On June 19 2019 21:40 deacon.frost wrote:On June 19 2019 21:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all... Same with the WCG Tournament announcement. TL getting more toxic by the day :/ What's toxic about being realistic? Can you point the toxic reactions, please? Because all I saw was calming down the hype because, let's face it, it doesn't look as promising as people are trying to make it. It's litteraly the first big european open lan not run by Take or Blizz to be anounce since Dreamhack left 3 years ago. Even if it's just foreigner it's great news! And I haven't seen anyone saying anything against this, but I'm blind, maybe I missed such posts Edit> Fine, boggyb above you. Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 21:57 ordeal11 wrote:This is huge, perhaps start of new era of foreigner + korean tournament? Doubt it. WCS players mostly, especially if the qualifier will be forced to the European server region
I imagine people busting their ass to get this of the ground, then come here and read comments like yours and Boggyb. Think about it
Edit: I think it's fine to voice some concerns/ opinions, just do it in a constructive way is all
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On June 19 2019 23:34 Harris1st wrote:I imagine people busting their ass to get this of the ground, then come here and read comments like yours and Boggyb. Think about it Edit: I think it's fine to voice some concerns/ opinions, just do it in a constructive way is all
Blizzard is the one who decided to give this tournaments WCS points and my criticisms are only about giving them to another event that non-European players will have to think long and hard about attending because it is a questionable move financially.
That could be mitigated with some NA and Korean server qualifiers that included paid travel to the event, but we've heard nothing about that.
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I'm surprised I haven't seen a "dead game" meme yet at this point.
I can't see how the fact that this tournament gives WCS points would be so bad that it would be better not to have any tournament, really; at worst, it's going to be a mainly EU populated WCS event.
Not a ton of WCS points are going to be assigned so that skipping Asus Rog would surely be better than not playing in Kiev; anyway, the non european players who have chanches of winning the event are basically the same who could qualify for BlizzCon so I guess they might not be losing money by going to Helsinki. It's of course easier for europeans to go to Helsinki, the Circuit would benefit of having one more NA tournament.
Koreans may or may not be interested to come, the decision of not applying region lock to the event is highly experimental; I think that we could see Dark, Trap, soO and/or Inno in addiction to some solid mid tier korean.
It's just a possibility that did not exist previously.
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Awesome this is gonna be a lot of fun great to have this back =)
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On June 20 2019 01:17 Xain0n wrote:
I can't see how the fact that this tournament gives WCS points would be so bad that it would be better not to have any tournament, really; at worst, it's going to be a mainly EU populated WCS event.
I feel like it is selling out the integrity of the competition for the WCS Circuit's spots for the WCS Global Finals for a paltry sum. To be fair, maybe Blizzard didn't think the competition had much integrity in the first place considering the region lock split is racist and the WCS Circuit was already favoring Europeans over people from other regions. But Blizzard at least pretended to try to make things even with WCS Challenger granting paid travel to some players which helps mitigate the fact that there are/were 3 open events in Europe and 1 in the Americas though having server qualifiers for Katowice rather than region locked qualifiers all but guaranteed that more NA server spots would be lost to players from outside of the Americas than EU spots would be lost to non-Europeans. This event does not do that at all.
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On June 20 2019 02:28 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2019 01:17 Xain0n wrote:
I can't see how the fact that this tournament gives WCS points would be so bad that it would be better not to have any tournament, really; at worst, it's going to be a mainly EU populated WCS event.
I feel like it is selling out the integrity of the competition for the WCS Circuit's spots for the WCS Global Finals for a paltry sum. To be fair, maybe Blizzard didn't think the competition had much integrity in the first place considering the region lock split is racist and the WCS Circuit was already favoring Europeans over people from other regions. But Blizzard at least pretended to try to make things even with WCS Challenger granting paid travel to some players which helps mitigate the fact that there are/were 3 open events in Europe and 1 in the Americas though having server qualifiers for Katowice rather than region locked qualifiers all but guaranteed that more NA server spots would be lost to players from outside of the Americas than EU spots would be lost to non-Europeans. This event does not do that at all.
ASUS ROG gives out 3200 WCS points assuming no koreans or Serral(he's already qualified) take any of them, and I don't think it's going to happen; an ordinary WCS stop assign 12600 given points.
Leipzeig's stop, this year, has been replaced by the two separated Winter tournaments which granted NA region 9300 points(to EU as well, but I guess that's better than having Leipzeig only to your eyes?).
Moreover, it's not like NA players cannot get themselves to Helsinki, I'm quite confident the top ones will decide to go; it is not totally fair due to the travel expenses, I agree with you on this, but you are making it catastrophic, which it isn't.
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On June 20 2019 03:15 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2019 02:28 Boggyb wrote:On June 20 2019 01:17 Xain0n wrote:
I can't see how the fact that this tournament gives WCS points would be so bad that it would be better not to have any tournament, really; at worst, it's going to be a mainly EU populated WCS event.
I feel like it is selling out the integrity of the competition for the WCS Circuit's spots for the WCS Global Finals for a paltry sum. To be fair, maybe Blizzard didn't think the competition had much integrity in the first place considering the region lock split is racist and the WCS Circuit was already favoring Europeans over people from other regions. But Blizzard at least pretended to try to make things even with WCS Challenger granting paid travel to some players which helps mitigate the fact that there are/were 3 open events in Europe and 1 in the Americas though having server qualifiers for Katowice rather than region locked qualifiers all but guaranteed that more NA server spots would be lost to players from outside of the Americas than EU spots would be lost to non-Europeans. This event does not do that at all. ASUS ROG gives out 3200 WCS points assuming no koreans or Serral(he's already qualified) take any of them, and I don't think it's going to happen; an ordinary WCS stop assign 12600 given points. Leipzeig's stop, this year, has been replaced by the two separated Winter tournaments which granted NA region 9300 points(to EU as well, but I guess that's better than having Leipzeig only to your eyes?). Moreover, it's not like NA players cannot get themselves to Helsinki, I'm quite confident the top ones will decide to go; it is not totally fair due to the travel expenses, I agree with you on this, but you are making it catastrophic, which it isn't.
uThermal has missed out on attending 2 WCS Global finals by a combined 180 points (technically 182) including 15 (16) in 2016. Attending or not attending this event could literally be what decides whether a player like Masa, TIME, or Scarlett makes the Global Finals. That's a pretty big deal in my opinion.
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This is amazing news!
Now I am even more happy to have bought an ASUS motherboard.
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On June 20 2019 03:27 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2019 03:15 Xain0n wrote:On June 20 2019 02:28 Boggyb wrote:On June 20 2019 01:17 Xain0n wrote:
I can't see how the fact that this tournament gives WCS points would be so bad that it would be better not to have any tournament, really; at worst, it's going to be a mainly EU populated WCS event.
I feel like it is selling out the integrity of the competition for the WCS Circuit's spots for the WCS Global Finals for a paltry sum. To be fair, maybe Blizzard didn't think the competition had much integrity in the first place considering the region lock split is racist and the WCS Circuit was already favoring Europeans over people from other regions. But Blizzard at least pretended to try to make things even with WCS Challenger granting paid travel to some players which helps mitigate the fact that there are/were 3 open events in Europe and 1 in the Americas though having server qualifiers for Katowice rather than region locked qualifiers all but guaranteed that more NA server spots would be lost to players from outside of the Americas than EU spots would be lost to non-Europeans. This event does not do that at all. ASUS ROG gives out 3200 WCS points assuming no koreans or Serral(he's already qualified) take any of them, and I don't think it's going to happen; an ordinary WCS stop assign 12600 given points. Leipzeig's stop, this year, has been replaced by the two separated Winter tournaments which granted NA region 9300 points(to EU as well, but I guess that's better than having Leipzeig only to your eyes?). Moreover, it's not like NA players cannot get themselves to Helsinki, I'm quite confident the top ones will decide to go; it is not totally fair due to the travel expenses, I agree with you on this, but you are making it catastrophic, which it isn't. uThermal has missed out on attending 2 WCS Global finals by a combined 180 points (technically 182) including 15 (16) in 2016. Attending or not attending this event could literally be what decides whether a player like Masa, TIME, or Scarlett makes the Global Finals. That's a pretty big deal in my opinion.
You mean it might be a big deal. And I insist, there is nothing preventing non EU players from going, even if it is expensive.
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On June 20 2019 02:28 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2019 01:17 Xain0n wrote:
I can't see how the fact that this tournament gives WCS points would be so bad that it would be better not to have any tournament, really; at worst, it's going to be a mainly EU populated WCS event.
I feel like it is selling out the integrity of the competition for the WCS Circuit's spots for the WCS Global Finals for a paltry sum. To be fair, maybe Blizzard didn't think the competition had much integrity in the first place considering the region lock split is racist and the WCS Circuit was already favoring Europeans over people from other regions. But Blizzard at least pretended to try to make things even with WCS Challenger granting paid travel to some players which helps mitigate the fact that there are/were 3 open events in Europe and 1 in the Americas though having server qualifiers for Katowice rather than region locked qualifiers all but guaranteed that more NA server spots would be lost to players from outside of the Americas than EU spots would be lost to non-Europeans. This event does not do that at all.
The WCS circuit favoring European players is a bold claim at least as far as WCS points distribution is concerned. If we assume that the European server has the toughest non-Korean competition (which seems to be commonly considered as true) the fact that the Challenger events in all regions give an equal amount of points puts European players at a disadvantage for the Blizzcon race (and this applies even if we disregard that Serral is competing in the EU region). Due to the weaker competition the top players of other regions collect a significant amount of WCS points fairly easily. By dominating their respective regions, Special earned 800 WCS points, Neeb got 660 points, Has got 690 for the Blizzcon race. Even a couple of non-dominant players from the non-EU regions, earned more challenger points than any European player other than Serral: NA: Scarlett with 460 points; SA: Kelazhur - 560; China: Time - 490, Cyan - 410; SEA: Seither - 630, Probe - 490, Hut - 460; Taiwan: Nice - 410. Comparing this to Heromarine who qualified for the grand finals with 210 points from challenger or Showtime and Lambo with merely 120 challenger points, it seems fair to say that EU players need to perform noticably better than the upper echelon of players from other regions to reach Blizzcon. (I am obviously not claiming that Neeb or Special did not deserve to go to Blizzcon btw)
It is probably fair to say that the fact that WCS events generally happen in Europe puts players from other regions at a disadvantage. However, I am pretty sure that this decision was made based on financial considerations due to the local viewership numbers and organization costs - it may not be perfectly fair, but it is probably the most viable option to continue having a large scale sc2 competition.
The argument about Katowice is not unreasonable, but 1. with IEM bearing the cost, they are likely to have chosen the format to assure more competetive finals, 2. it just so happened that Special and Neeb earned 2 of the 3 EU qualifier spots.
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How the hell can anyone be unhappy about this?!
Maximal happiness all around!!
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Haha. Just few days ago I made my drunken tirades about Serral's potential and how business opportunities are missed and that Blizzard don't care the game etc. not necessarily too constructive.
The Law of Karma slaps my face so nicely, and I get all beating eagerly.
I took silence as an ominous sign, but ultimately, essentially what I dreamed of and hoped for was already in making behind the scenes. Thank you, thank you, thank you Serral, Asus, Blizzard, and all!
More Koreans better tournament. Beating Serral on his home grounds would be an achievement and the deed of high prestige.
Coming now to Finland for Serral likely improve probability he will go to Korea later...
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 19 2019 23:34 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 22:13 deacon.frost wrote:On June 19 2019 22:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 21:40 deacon.frost wrote:On June 19 2019 21:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all... Same with the WCG Tournament announcement. TL getting more toxic by the day :/ What's toxic about being realistic? Can you point the toxic reactions, please? Because all I saw was calming down the hype because, let's face it, it doesn't look as promising as people are trying to make it. Maybe toxic is the wrong word here. I apologize Fact is: There is a tournament where none was before. Most people here appreciate that fact. Some are just looking to make everything bad Where? Show me the posts. I don't think it makes them look bad as people are trying to calm down the hype, IMO. e.g. somebody posted Maru v Serral final this time. Let's check the HSC thread, Naruto's post and that 100k requirement for Maru to leave Korea. If thsi would be in a close vicinity of Korea(China, Japan) I can see the moeny requirement lowered, but this is Finland. One example of how this thread is hyped over 9k. On June 19 2019 22:07 Nakajin wrote:On June 19 2019 21:40 deacon.frost wrote:On June 19 2019 21:00 Harris1st wrote:On June 19 2019 20:20 Xain0n wrote:
This tournament was announced yesterday and we did not know anything about it before, yet people seem to be complaining; we could even have some korean in a WCS stop, the alternative would have been no tournament at all... Same with the WCG Tournament announcement. TL getting more toxic by the day :/ What's toxic about being realistic? Can you point the toxic reactions, please? Because all I saw was calming down the hype because, let's face it, it doesn't look as promising as people are trying to make it. It's litteraly the first big european open lan not run by Take or Blizz to be anounce since Dreamhack left 3 years ago. Even if it's just foreigner it's great news! And I haven't seen anyone saying anything against this, but I'm blind, maybe I missed such posts Edit> Fine, boggyb above you. On June 19 2019 21:57 ordeal11 wrote:This is huge, perhaps start of new era of foreigner + korean tournament? Doubt it. WCS players mostly, especially if the qualifier will be forced to the European server region I imagine people busting their ass to get this of the ground, then come here and read comments like yours and Boggyb. Think about it Edit: I think it's fine to voice some concerns/ opinions, just do it in a constructive way is all
How else am I supposed to write it? Give me finally those examples!
Or at least stop replying to me with this stuff and give all your attention to others.
On June 19 2019 23:58 Boggyb wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2019 23:34 Harris1st wrote:I imagine people busting their ass to get this of the ground, then come here and read comments like yours and Boggyb. Think about it Edit: I think it's fine to voice some concerns/ opinions, just do it in a constructive way is all Blizzard is the one who decided to give this tournaments WCS points and my criticisms are only about giving them to another event that non-European players will have to think long and hard about attending because it is a questionable move financially. That could be mitigated with some NA and Korean server qualifiers that included paid travel to the event, but we've heard nothing about that.
It was already stated in the leading psot that it won't be paid to travel there and live there. You get free entry to the event and that's all you get for free.
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Now if some executives of Finnair would make a simple sponsorship/marketing decision for example giving good discount in ticket prices to incoming Korean SC2 Players... Just few weeks ago Finnish and Korean presidents hyped how new direct route between Helsinki and Busan was opened by Finnair (Helsinki is closest and fastest spot en route to European cities if travelling from Korea - Seoul/Busan).
Would be nice way to promote new route. Finland isn't far side of the world from Korea if we look at the map of airlanes on a globe.
Just 2 cents. Hopefully some Finnair's marketing folks are also SC2 fans following these threads.
edit/add: Then, if its about cost of coming to Finland to compete, I wonder what Finnish SC2-scene could really do for Koreans' accomodation if taking it as question of honor. Hard to imagine there would be insurmountable problems there either.
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Looking forward to some good games for the fans.
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Man, if Serral get's knocked out early on....
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EPT
