The entire match-up of Protoss vs. Zerg will be on trial on June 15th as the best Zerg player in Korea faces a Protoss player whose previous best Code S result was a round-of-sixteen finish. We don't need to drum up any hype or write fanciful narratives for you to tune in. We already know you'll be watching Hurricane vs. Dark with a lurid fascination—after all, who doesn't want to be around when the StarCraft II community could go up in flames?
After sweeping herO to reach the semis, Dark said he had believed in Hurricane's potential to become a top Protoss player, joking that he told people to invest in "Gi-Woong-Coin" in the past. But Dark also insinuated that the RO4 would be the end of the line for Hurricane, saying he was restraining himself from commenting further due to fear of becoming overconfident. Going by their head-to-head record, you can see why Dark might feel that way: he's 8-2 against Hurricane in series with a 18-7 map score throughout. There's also the ridiculous disparity in resumes: Dark's career is littered with playoff runs and medal-stand finishes, while Hurricane is a player who has frequently struggled to even qualify for Code S at all. Dark is 18-4 in ZvP series over the course of the WCS 2019 season, with only Trap, Stats, Classic, and Dear(?!) giving him a loss.
No wonder TL.net users predictions are giving Dark over a 7-to-1 advantage. Yet, you can also detect traces of doubt in those numbers—that's the same ratio of predictions that Classic got over Trap. Somehow, TL.net users are giving Hurricane a similar chance as Trap, when Trap had a far better GSL resume, the teamhouse practice aura, AND the coin-flip factor of PvP on his side.
Why might you make a case for Hurricane? First off, he did manage to beat Rogue—arguably the SECOND best Zerg in Korea (I won't argue if you favor soO as #2)—in May's Super Tournament, winning in a surprisingly one-sided 3-1 bout. Second of all, you have to admit that Hurricane really is quite a clever and unpredictable player. +1 armor all-ins, fake Immortal pushes into late-DT drops, throwback Blink-Stalker all-ins—going over his VODs for the past few months, it's hard to name anyone other than Classic who's shown us such a wide variety of builds in recent PvZ's. Third, his PvZ record has been excellent during his recent hot streak. Since the latest balance patch (March 25th), he's 7-2 in BO3+ series (including wins over Ragnarok and Solar x2 in his current Code S run), with a 20-9 overall map score for a nearly 70% win-rate. Fourth, maybe there's really something wrong about PvZ. Even if it's not numerically 'imbalanced,' it does at least seem that this meta allows Protoss underdogs to use risky strategies to create an unusual amount of variance, improving their range of favorable outcomes. Or more simply put: everyone's inner-Has has been unlocked.
Alas, I'm not one of those TL.net users who are taking the underdog odds, believing that Hurricane can pull off a Trap. Dark already crushed Patience and herO this season—and while I'm not saying all Protoss players play the same (that would be racist)—they're also players in the cheesy/creative mold. Dark did this by taking the approach I implored him to take against Classic last season: mixing defensive macro play with the aggressive strategies that are his forte. As Serral Mike Tyson said, "everybody has plans until they get hit." I get the feeling that Dark is going to hit Hurricane a lot.
I am learning to never count out a protoss in a match.
With time to plan - we see protoss players able to make better use of map naunce or at least more consistently map specifc plays. I imagine we will see very large pushes with dt or adept expo denial. Every attempt go cause Dark to mistime drones must be abused or this match will be brutal.
Early allins will get brutalized. Phoenix play might be required but ...Dark is so aggressive that can lead to roach rolls.
Go Dark!
Dark should win unless we see a brand new approach to the midgame.
On June 14 2019 17:17 RandomPlayer wrote: I'm glad Trap finally reached the finals! Hoping for a 4-2 with Dark finally wining a GSL. I'm sick of the same faces over and over again.
Trap, Dark and Hurricane have never reached a final in Code S before. Do not underestimate Harry Kane, he's a fine striker!
Great preview, like it said I will be watching in anticipation and dreadfullness of the day we get to say the phrase: "Hurricane is the best Starcraft 2 player in the world".
I'm pretty sure Dark crushes him, but last time Samsung player won a GSL it was Roro, do not underestimate the power of meta.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
He did win an SSL, to be fair, which was also a Starleague.
I wouldn't be surprised if Hurricane gets handily defeated but I wouldn't mind if the final was Trap vs Hurricane - even if they are filthy protosses :D.
Best of luck to Hurricane, I fear he will need it.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
herO is a 6-time premier tournament winner, Solar is a 5-time premier tournament winner, Rogue is a 2-time world champion, 2 time Blizzcon round of 4, and 2 additional premier tournament champion, and none of them have made a GSL finals. Dark is not leagues above any of them in terms of overall performance if you put value in being the best player in the world at a specific time over consistently being good.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s
Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders
Bomber - 4 weekenders
Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4
Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders
Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender
Dream - 2x SSL 2nd
herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4
I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now.
Are you guys seriously arguing that Taeja was somehow better than Dark? Are you stuchiu alts or just memeing or what? I can understand talking about herO or even Rogue, but I still consider Dark much better if taken over the span of his sc2 career.
Anyway, I hope that when the last GSL comes, the finals will be inno vs. dark.
dark is gonna get protossed. hurricane is in much, much, much better form than her0 and also probably has an incredible motivation to show the world he has what it takes to win it all. his practise and preparation will be insane.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s
Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders
Bomber - 4 weekenders
Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4
Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders
Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender
Dream - 2x SSL 2nd
herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4
I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s
Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders
Bomber - 4 weekenders
Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4
Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders
Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender
Dream - 2x SSL 2nd
herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4
I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
One win and what feels like a billion ro4/finals appearances in stacked events vastly outweighs two wins in my opinion.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s
Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders
Bomber - 4 weekenders
Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4
Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders
Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender
Dream - 2x SSL 2nd
herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4
I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form.
It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s
Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders
Bomber - 4 weekenders
Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4
Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders
Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender
Dream - 2x SSL 2nd
herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4
I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now.
Super Tournaments don't count as a GSL Code S, and if they did, then Dark wouldn't be on the list because he's been to a Super Tournament final.
but then that Super Tournament that Polt won should've been listed in his achievements to compare who is the best player to never win Code S
I think it's just wacked in with the 7 weekenders he won to be honest. Though (if I remember right) that event was way longer than a weekend like the modern super tournaments are, and is probably in the same regard as a bigger events like katowice.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja - 11 weekenders, 2 GSL ro4s
Solar - SSL 1st, SSL 2nd, SSL 3rd, 4 weekenders
Bomber - 4 weekenders
Polt - 7 weekenders, 1 GSL ro4
Rogue - 2x world champ, 2 weekenders
Serral - 1 world champ, 1 weekender
Dream - 2x SSL 2nd
herO - 5 weekenders, 1 SSL, 1 GSL ro4
I'd definitely put Dark ahead of any of those, with his 21 ro4+ finishes in what are almost all extremely stacked events. Including 4 GSL ro4s, 3 SSL finals (inc one win), and a blizzcon finals. Not to mention being almost always the best or second best zerg for like four years now.
Dark hasn't won a thing since that SSL, its cool to consistently reach RO4s, but failing to reach the finals everytime just means you're a very good player who's always short of being the best. Stats and Maru have showed this to Dark. Taeja, Polt and herO have a much better resume in my opinion. He breaks even with Rogue and Solar in my opinion. There are 2 other Zergs who are clearly better, and one who is clearly worse, but somehow keeps finding his way into this. I don't think i need to name them.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form.
It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
"Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player. Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion.
On June 14 2019 18:32 opisska wrote: Dark was never in GSL finals? That's actually mindblowing and makes him by far the best player to never have done so.
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form.
It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
"Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player. Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion.
Serral had the chance to compete in every code S, even easier for him since his brother lives in Seoul. Dark or these other players could not compete in WCS even if they wanted to. These WCS events for Serral are like the Asian Games that Maru went to as the only south korean and stomped everyone in, pointless and not worth mentioning. Winning a tournament where you're 2 times as good as the second best player is worthless as a discussion topic.
I forgot to say in my initial post - Thanks op for the write up and the thread.
I am so excited. I am hoping for at least one full throated long 4-5 base lategame.
As a struggling new sc2 player, toss lategame has me meat shielding my way to a loss and learning from serral is like trying to learn from jd or effort.... great if you have the fluid intelligence of an astronaut. Not so useful for average zergs.
On June 14 2019 21:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: [quote]
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form.
It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
"Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player. Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion.
Serral had the chance to compete in every code S, even easier for him since his brother lives in Seoul. Dark or these other players could not compete in WCS even if they wanted to. These WCS events for Serral are like the Asian Games that Maru went to as the only south korean and stomped everyone in, pointless and not worth mentioning. Winning a tournament where you're 2 times as good as the second best player is worthless as a discussion topic.
That Serral theorically could doesn't mean that he should have, staying in Korea for months is not a joke; thus said, I'd love to see him play in GSL, if i were him I'd have chosen Season 3 qualifiers over HSC.
By your logic, whenever there is a super dominant player, Code S shouldn't be worth anything as well.
Always the same discussions, that's frankly boring.
On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote: Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane.
Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason.
Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate.
Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s
On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote: Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane.
Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason.
Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate.
Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s
As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this. I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case.
On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote: Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane.
Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason.
Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate.
Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s
As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this. I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case.
As long as WCS has worse competition than OIimoleagues, people are going to compare them. Deal with it.
On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote: Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane.
Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason.
Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate.
Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s
As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this. I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case.
As long as WCS has worse competition than OIimoleagues, people are going to compare them. Deal with it.
This bias is a fine source of neverending entertainment.
On June 15 2019 17:00 Ej_ wrote: Ah, again we ended up with Xainon defending Serral. In a thread about Dark vs Hurricane.
Again we ended up with people involving Serral in a Code S finals discussion and downplaying him for no reason.
Still not sure why you would think the fault is mine, "another post devolved into a Serral's achievements discussion" would be more appropriate.
Because somehow you always end up entagled here. Whether you're the first person to bring Serral up or not, it seems you find true pleasure in making literally everything about meaningfulness of WCS championship.s
As long as there are people casually comparing WCS to Olimoleagues, I can't really stop doing this. I would better understand your point of view if I purposely aimed to convert every unrelated thread into a Serral discussion, but that's really not the case.
As long as WCS has worse competition than OIimoleagues, people are going to compare them. Deal with it.
This bias is a fine source of neverending entertainment.
Winning WCS is more prestigous than olimoleague given it's a LAN with a lot of money and blizzcon spots on the line. But I think it's clear people are refering to the level of players, in which case you can't really argue that WCS is superior.
The usual players in olimoleagues are INno, Gumiho, Zest, Stats, Solar, Impact and often times soO, herO, and Trap. I'd take them over SpeCial, Showtime, Neeb, and Lambo any day.
On June 14 2019 21:43 renaissanceMAN wrote: [quote]
Taeja?
the best player to never have done so
Exactly. The correct answer is Serral.
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form.
It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
"Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player. Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion.
Serral had the chance to compete in every code S, even easier for him since his brother lives in Seoul. Dark or these other players could not compete in WCS even if they wanted to. These WCS events for Serral are like the Asian Games that Maru went to as the only south korean and stomped everyone in, pointless and not worth mentioning. Winning a tournament where you're 2 times as good as the second best player is worthless as a discussion topic.
Of course they can compete if they wanted to. They just have to uproot their current life and live in an eligible country and register as a qualifying foreign resident. ez money
No, it really isn't. Serral has won only 3 tournaments with major Korean representation. (Blizzcon, GSL vs. The World, and HomeStory Cup). That's a great argument for best non-Korean of all time but it is well below what a bunch of Koreans have accomplished.
If that's the metric you're using, Dark's a chump because he has only won a single tournament with major Korean representation (2016 SSL Season 1).
Dark has done well in countless other tournaments with Koreans. Serral has not. Dark's offline record vs. South Korean players: 178-98 Serral's offline record vs. South Korean players: 36-36
This post can't be real(just as those not counting Serral WCS victories). I second TaeJa and herO, Dark is a great player but not the best who hasn't reached a Code S final yet.
Why can't it be real? Starcraft 2 wasn't released in 2017. If you're going to talk about the best player to not have done X, it is super dumb to just look at current form.
It is absolutely reasonable to ignore Serral's WCS performances because he beats at most 4 Code S caliber players to do it. There are Olimoleagues with competition equal to that.
"Absolutely reasonable"? Would you say as much about the stats you brought in(true ones, but totally misleading) that present Serral as a player who has a 50% chanche to beat koreans? So very convenient to omiss Serral's WCS victories while including his records before he became a full time player. Serral, by the way, has never even played a Code S qualifier; he shouldn't have been involved in this discussion.
Serral had the chance to compete in every code S, even easier for him since his brother lives in Seoul. Dark or these other players could not compete in WCS even if they wanted to. These WCS events for Serral are like the Asian Games that Maru went to as the only south korean and stomped everyone in, pointless and not worth mentioning. Winning a tournament where you're 2 times as good as the second best player is worthless as a discussion topic.
Of course they can compete if they wanted to. They just have to uproot their current life and live in an eligible country and register as a qualifying foreign resident. ez money
Yeah, just the visa process takes from months to years, ezpz. Never seen a foreigner taking the Korean visa process for months or even years. I don't know where all the Korean pros and their teams do the mistake when it's so easy...
Edit> And don't get me start on the "either you play WCS or you play Code S, you have to decide if your schedule is bad" issue TRUE(I believe) met before. That was good too, because different regions, different rules (you don't have to live in a Korea for a month before Code S begins...)
EPT![[image loading]](/staff/Waxangel/GSL/2019/codes2/ro8bracket1_5.png)
2011 GSL Super Tournament/Final8
