EPTI hope you stay as part of the scene, but if you really think it's dying then good luck elsewhere. Please don't think we need an alarm or bell rang or anything the moment it happens. I feel it shouldn't be required of anyone in our scene to announce our death. Blizzard will do that when they shut down the servers.
StarCraft II - A Lifecycle - Page 4
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BriMikon
United States82 Posts
I hope you stay as part of the scene, but if you really think it's dying then good luck elsewhere. Please don't think we need an alarm or bell rang or anything the moment it happens. I feel it shouldn't be required of anyone in our scene to announce our death. Blizzard will do that when they shut down the servers. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
And yeah, it's not a very attractive scene for new players. The majority of young talent in esports goes elsewhere. However, it's still an active esport, despite being difficult and not as well paid, and it still manages to get some new players every year to this day. It's the best RTS and some people just love pure RTS above anything else. | ||
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ETisME
12387 Posts
Without it, who knows what kind of scene we would have now. I agree that SC2 dying doesn't really bother me as much as well, it seems the whole esports scene is kinda dying out. But SC2 still has great things going, I just hope there are ways for it to continue for many years to come. There really isn't any other game like this, where you invest years into it and it' kinda becomes part of you. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3099 Posts
During the development & through the peak of its popularity, when it was THE esport, the first successful esport in the West, it was measured against BW. It wasn't designed as well, wasn't as skillful, there was no micro, MBS, etc, etc. Which is fair, I guess. BW is a good game, and anyone who wants can still play it and watch it. Ever since that peak (& it's been a while now, let's be real), it's been measuring itself against that peak. Which is fair too, I guess. Starcraft 2 was the first big esport in the West, and it will never be that again. If that's what people want, if that's their standard of success or what it means to them for the game to be alive, then Starcraft 2 has been dead for a long time now, and will never come back. I started following SC2 before it was the biggest best esport, though, and I can't see myself stopping at this point as long as there are games to watch. It's a good game, and a better esport. That's really all I have to say. | ||
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Maynarde
Australia1286 Posts
On June 07 2019 07:21 feardragon wrote: Saying a game has been dying for 8 years is about as meaningful as saying a 50 year old that will live to the age of 80 is dying. Yea bad things happen and if you don’t feel the scene is big enough anymore for you then I can respect that. But it just feels weird to phrase it that way with your last paragraph’s call to action for everyone(we) to just memorialize it and bury it like trying to bury a 50 year old because they’re going to “die” eventually at this rate. Maybe ‘ misreading your words as a call to action since I don’t think I’d feel that way if this were just in the personal blog section. Agreed, this is kinda like you're having a wake for a funeral that hasn't happened yet, and is in fact years down the line... a little weird. If this was "remember the good old days this old girl ain't what she used to be" I'd be down with it but either way it's sliced this feels more like a blog post. | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On June 07 2019 13:09 Captain Peabody wrote: I've been following Starcraft 2 since 2007, and it's always had the most pessimistic scene imagineable, constantly convinced it wasn't measuring up to some golden standard. During the development & through the peak of its popularity, when it was THE esport, the first successful esport in the West, it was measured against BW. It wasn't designed as well, wasn't as skillful, there was no micro, MBS, etc, etc. Which is fair, I guess. BW is a good game, and anyone who wants can still play it and watch it. Ever since that peak (& it's been a while now, let's be real), it's been measuring itself against that peak. Which is fair too, I guess. Starcraft 2 was the first big esport in the West, and it will never be that again. If that's what people want, if that's their standard of success or what it means to them for the game to be alive, then Starcraft 2 has been dead for a long time now, and will never come back. I started following SC2 before it was the biggest best esport, though, and I can't see myself stopping at this point as long as there are games to watch. It's a good game, and a better esport. That's really all I have to say. You should have seen the COD scene after vCOD. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On June 06 2019 11:34 Morbidius wrote: I don't need mega sponsored events but player skill is a huge thing for me, and it hurts to see it falling to where it is now. Look at Innovation, he's the second best Terran in the world by all rights, but he's just a shadow of his former self. And we aren't getting new people fast enough. Maru became king of Korea just by maintaining his high level, Serral is one the one in a million, like Life and Taeja who were extremely gifted. Watching SC2 is still fun, but it definitely has this ''This isn't the real potential this game has'' feeling to it. Just like WoL had. And to people who recite the ''highest skill era'' mantra: The best players fall off in every game and eventually can't compete with new players, you can see it plainly in Brood War how every Bonjwa has both a rise and a fall, around the same time. Now we see this completely stagnated scene, filled with has beens and patch heroes and we have to keep accepting this ''Highest skill era, best game has ever been, best year of Starcraft II so far'' from casters. Its sad. I agree the highest skill area is not a very good thing to bring up but design wise, I think since 2017 the game is way better than wol/hots in which protoss was kinda meh. (at least, I really hated it) im pretty sure the bl/infestor era was the one thing that accelerated sc2's death the most, the game became such a snoozefest that a lot of ppl outright stopped playing back then, me included. I think he did too and hots didn't really correct some flaws, like the 6 first months of 2014 were frustrating and 2015 after the patch 2.1.9 almost made me stop watching. (and I don't really play since). Dark times, the game is so much better. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On June 06 2019 11:34 Morbidius wrote: I don't need mega sponsored events but player skill is a huge thing for me, and it hurts to see it falling to where it is now. Look at Innovation, he's the second best Terran in the world by all rights, but he's just a shadow of his former self. And we aren't getting new people fast enough. Maru became king of Korea just by maintaining his high level, Serral is one the one in a million, like Life and Taeja who were extremely gifted. Watching SC2 is still fun, but it definitely has this ''This isn't the real potential this game has'' feeling to it. Just like WoL had. And to people who recite the ''highest skill era'' mantra: The best players fall off in every game and eventually can't compete with new players, you can see it plainly in Brood War how every Bonjwa has both a rise and a fall, around the same time. Now we see this completely stagnated scene, filled with has beens and patch heroes and we have to keep accepting this ''Highest skill era, best game has ever been, best year of Starcraft II so far'' from casters. Its sad. I'd rank Gumiho above Inno right now to be honest. Although I agree INno is a shadow of his former self, that's only if you compare him to his peaks of 2013, 2017 etc. I really don't think he's worse than he was in late 2013, 2016 etc. Of course then you could just use soO or Zest or Stats as examples of players who have fallen off. And Maru definitely didn't win four GSLs just by maintaining his skill level. He mastered basically every aspect of terran and found new ways to win almost every season. You can say he always had the mechanic skill, but since the start of 2018 he certainly used it more effectively. Rogue even said he went from the laziest Jin Air player (in terms of practice) to the hardest. | ||
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skdsk
138 Posts
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Moonerz
United States444 Posts
If people truly enjoy the game it will never die. Look at BW, look at Melee. The scene might not be as glorious as it once was or whatever but the community can and will continue. If that means primarily grass roots events so be it. To be honest one of the best things about this community is that its not gigantic and we can actually have meaningful interactions with one another, we have casters and progamers post here all the time. Don't worry, be happy! | ||
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General_Winter
United States719 Posts
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Starcloud
137 Posts
Killed, Killed, Killed..... Cant compete with LoL, Fortnite, Dota, Mario Kart, Zelda, Pokemon..... For fucks sake, let it be already ? I dont understand why this topic has to be brought up every so often in so many occasions and even in events. If we would listen to doomsday-prophets, this game has been dead for what, 50+ times in 8+ years already, and on the contrary its still going strong. Yeah, it isnt in its peak anymore, but what game would be at this age ? There are some issues and concerns of course, but even with taking them account, I cant see Starcraft 2 dying anytime soon. 2018 was a very big year for SC2 and 2019 has been a positive start as well. We have nice tournaments with new competition and new and upcoming players, even some little rivalries rising up. And besides the competitive side, there is a huge amount of people playing Co-Op, casual Ladder, custom games etc. I still think that SC2 would have even potential to grow more, if marketed correctly, but of course Blizzard wouldnt do that because it would be risky and cost a lot. But all in all, what in this game is dying here ? You can get 1v1 almost instantly in any league, same goes mostly for team games and especially co-op too. There are more tournaments going on than I have ever seen and most of them are casted, some with multiple languages. WCS and GSL are rolling normally at least for now and price money is still great. Ironically, if Husky would have made an actual comeback, it would propably been a huge burst too to the scene. So many people have been waiting for it, but well, you cant get it all, can you ? Problems then. Yeah, as others have said, Korean scene is the biggest problem and hardest to solve. I still think that there is potential too with right actions and advertising. It would be nice to have more big tournaments than GSL in there. Not neccessarily anything 100k supertournaments, but more like bit smaller Weekend tournaments with reasonable payouts, so that there would be more steady income for more players there. And yeah, remove the region lock too, it should be a good way to get even more "oldies" get back into the competitive scene. That way there would be enough opportunities for Koreans to get nice income and enough competitive challenge to make things interesting. Korea is still the homeland of Starcraft, im sure there is the spark somewhere buried there waiting to come out. It just needs some light and gasoline to get it back burning again. Finally, narratives and rivalries. That is a section, which could be boosted a lot. But it kinda needs removing the region lock and adding more tournaments to Korea and reviving that scene to get going. It would be kind of dull to have this "Serral vs. Korea" thing as an only bigger rivalry/narrative in the scene. Nowadays players like Neeb, Raynor, Special, Showtime, Scarlett, Lambo, Heromarine etc. are starting to be at the same level as top 20sh Koreans are today and also can challenge Serral occasionally. It would be very interesting and fun to see them mixed up against Koreans in various tournaments. In addition, it would propably increase the overall skill-level as well, since mixing up the playing field and making foreingers play against better players would be good practise as well. | ||
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Conut
Canada1026 Posts
On June 08 2019 09:41 General_Winter wrote: Speaking of keeping SC2 alive, how do I pay for skins in this game? Back when I quit in hots SC2 didn’t have skins. And since I came back I haven’t been able to figure out how to buy them. LOL makes it really really easy to give rito money, but SC2 seems wierd about that. There is a collections tab that let's you buy stuff, happy hunting! Also to everyone in this thread, sc2 is insanely fun it's the tennis of esports, god it's made me happier then any other game on the market, super glad I play it and I hope you see you guys on the ladder! | ||
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RampancyTW
United States577 Posts
The game has maintained an active, high-skill competitive community with top players making lucrative smounts of money for its entire lifespan of going on 10 years Now that things look slightly shaky due to shakeups at Blizzard, despite SC2's amazing 2018 performance, you come out of the woodwork to stroke your egos like vultures What the actual fuck is wrong with you people, just enjoy the game or bug off and let other people enjoy it if you don't anymore | ||
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Xamo
Spain877 Posts
It is in the nature of the game. It is hard. I wonder where the frustration of this writer comes from. One day he shouts patchzerg (Zerg imba?), another day the game is dead, what is next? | ||
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Craton
United States17250 Posts
On June 07 2019 13:04 ETisME wrote: It is the dream that SC2 was something more, something bigger that kinda helped it to explode in the earlier days. Without it, who knows what kind of scene we would have now. I agree that SC2 dying doesn't really bother me as much as well, it seems the whole esports scene is kinda dying out. But SC2 still has great things going, I just hope there are ways for it to continue for many years to come. There really isn't any other game like this, where you invest years into it and it' kinda becomes part of you. This death of esports is greatly exaggerated. SC2's declining tournaments, sponsors, etc. are a very separate matter from esports as a whole which continues to see ever widening interest from the "mainstream" in the form of reporting by notable entities (e.g. espn) and increasing interest and financial buy-in by large players like NBA and NFL owners. Ultimately what matters in esports continuing is the money. It's needed to fund salaries, put on productions, and get people to watch. People watching means advertiser interest. In general the 18-34 year old demographic is one of the most highly sought for advertisers for various reasons and that very strongly correlates to esports and the desire to entice consumers isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The more advertisers warm to the idea of targeting this market, the more money ends up in the scene and the more it grows. LoL still puts up very strong numbers, DOTA 2 keeps topping its prize pools (and maybe viewership numbers) year over year, and CS:GO continues to pull in huge viewer counts, to name a few. Several of the fighting games also are continuing to grow year over year with increasingly bigger events like EVO. Overwatch still feel dubious to me, but it has the funding for now to stick around. I think it's interesting mostly just because of the approach they've taken to aggressive franchising from the outset. Plenty of other games still come and go, even if only for relatively short periods, but the fact that they're able to do that consistently is pretty much proof that esports as whole is doing fine. You just have to remember that one game (or even a few) does not represent esports as a whole. It's pretty hard to imagine people collectively losing all interest in watching competitions. | ||
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capacityex
27 Posts
No. Starcraft doesnt lose base players. im 40, played from the start when i was 16, ive seen all the trends and shifts and starcraft gains players, they quit (hard game an all) but the base numbers stay. It isnt dying and ill put another 40 years to say it will be like this for the rest of time if there isnt an SC3. Yes there were glory years, but so had call of duty, halo, counterstrike(arguably still has the numbers) but SC will always be there. Take it from me, there is no less inactivity now than there was when i was playing SC on a 56k modem. forget the pro scene, betting and esports have been prevailent in korea longer than i think some of you have been alivce, the whole idea of justinTV was to show people how starcraft was being played. The industry owes a lot to starcraft but when you can make easier to manage and get into games there will be an inevitable fall off with a game like starcraft. I used to race ina racing league. Why do you think the Forza league died but the project gotham one didnt at the time? Well ye, PGR, press go, forza . . well who the fuck wants to drive a million laps fine tuning a car? Back in the days of forza 2, you had to know ur shit to some extent. Much the sam,e with SC. you cant just pick up and play, not really. Starcraft isnt dying, yes people have moved on from sponsorship if thats ur marker, but the game has carved itself in history and as long as you have people like me around who were there from the start programming around 1991 and well into the scene of which was incredibly hard to get information on, the UK only got the internet so to speak in 96, and that was only in colleges then i can continue to put people straight who are not up on their actual history and how it was, not a few lines from a google search. | ||
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hsut1112
1 Post
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Madhouze
Denmark5 Posts
"Starcraft dead"? I love mutalisks 4ever!! You lack perspective. I think i will try telling my mom that bridge (the card game) is dead because kids dont want to play it... Peace! | ||
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Vision_
861 Posts
It s not surprising to me Sc2 is dying, i have some issue but i already know community will never accept changes as i know how fans players dislike modifications of their sacred races... Changes could be done with unit tester to reduce most of the box size units (about 70%), then reducing their speed movement. Then it s logic, first you have to adjust them against units with the biggest range,.. then you have to adjust area damage units. You can also remove the sight of creep tumors in compensation of some tools or mecanics. I could work on that but i have not enought time for now. | ||
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