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Canada8991 Posts
On April 06 2019 21:58 JoeCool wrote:
Still don't like the way groups are drawn. Not taking anything away from Maru, you have to admit that he had a rather easy path to the finals.
A good part of that was a lot of the favourite bombing out by themself, but yes Maru path to the final has been one of the easiest in recent history, apart from Dear who was a long shot (and maybe herO) he didn't face anyone who you would say at the start of the season had a reasonable chance of winning it. I know we hype Trap and Impact but let's be real if GSL history has thought us anything is that guys like those are never winning a GSL.
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On April 06 2019 22:55 raff100 wrote:
I can't understand how Maru can destroy everyone in GSL and then disappear when he's outside Korea. He would be the best sc2 player ever if it wasn't for how bad he get crushed in every worldwide tournament.
Crushed is such an overstatement. The only crushing that has happened since the start of 2018 was IEM, where he barely didn't survive group stages. Remember the winner? That soO guy? Yeah that guy barely advanced with the same 2-3 match score as maru in a much easier group. It's a stacked tournament and without long preparation you can lose. Otherwise, Maru has been consistently one of the very best and has only lost to very big names (or sOs getting in his head).
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When we talk about goat, what about Zest. He dominated 2014, when kr Starcraft 2 was at best time and all of the top players were at top. Zest dominated all of them and showed the determination in those games. Most top players are just top gamers. But Zest is a commander.
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Honestly, Maru read Trap like a book, and Trap tilted after Game 2. He got wrecked in games 1 and 2 so hard that he started questioning himself and Maru kept his foot on the gas.
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On April 06 2019 15:16 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 14:47 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Maru has tied soO's record for 4 finals in a row and may soon tie/exceed Mvp's record in titles depending on how you count GSL vs The World. Crazy Why do some people always (advertently) forget that Inno also won 4 GSLs (if counts GSL vs The World)?
But that would be in a span of 3 long years; not in row.
Also Maru is the only player to win all 3 Korean Star leagues.
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On April 06 2019 21:41 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 20:35 Hvvacha wrote:On April 06 2019 16:48 Ej_ wrote:
Can we finally nerf Protoss tho? It's laughable that Terran is literally unplayable in TvP :[ maru vs trap is like gm vs masters, so yes p will be nerfed lol. I don't think Protoss will be nerfed as long as the Terran players are so much better than theProtoss players that they can fight off the imbalance :[
And by players you meant to say player - key distinction there.
Lets be honest though - Trap played very badly in this series - don't know if it was nerves or what but didn't look remotely like how he looked vs. Ty or Inno.
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On April 06 2019 23:26 lcz823 wrote:
When we talk about goat, what about Zest. He dominated 2014, when kr Starcraft 2 was at best time and all of the top players were at top. Zest dominated all of them and showed the determination in those games. Most top players are just top gamers. But Zest is a commander.
no way Zest is GOAT, yeah he was really good for one year and then he has had a couple times were he has looked good but he is so inconsistent. and even in his 2014 run its not like he won every tournament
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On April 06 2019 15:16 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 14:47 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Maru has tied soO's record for 4 finals in a row and may soon tie/exceed Mvp's record in titles depending on how you count GSL vs The World. Crazy Why do some people always (advertently) forget that Inno also won 4 GSLs (if counts GSL vs The World)?
Its schrodinger's GSL. When they need to argue for Mvp being bonjwa then its a GSL. When its Inno its not.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
I don't really think there is a definitive GOAT in SC2, if there are such divergent opinions and multiple candidates. You're never going to get absolute unanimity but a Gretzky or a Michael Jordan aren't going to receive a massive amount of dissenting opinion.
Maru is pretty bloody good, he's 100% on that tier of GOAT candidates, his peak play is especially scary. He hasn't quite brought his A game across into marathon tournaments, some marathon monsters like Taeja never quite brought their chops fully to bear at a GSL.
I think both formats are important to be considered the undisputed GOAT.
For those who stress the GSL and preparation as the holy grail and above weekenders, I don't really think that's entirely fair, as that preparation isn't done solo by the individual, it involves their team as well, and having internal practice partners of Code A or latter stages of Code S calibre to actually test and refine your builds with.
Teamless players don't have that, foreigners tend not to have that at least to the same degree that Korean teamhouses naturally suit.
That's aside the other aspect of strategy games, which is on the fly adaptation as well, especially at weekenders where you as the Code S calibre Korean are likely to face opponents who know much more about you than you do about them.
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On April 06 2019 22:24 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 21:58 JoeCool wrote:
Still don't like the way groups are drawn. Not taking anything away from Maru, you have to admit that he had a rather easy path to the finals. To the ro8? Sure, to the finals? Nope?
Ye his path was really "rough". I would pick Trap/Dear every single time over rogue/dark/classic. Not even same tier.
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On April 07 2019 03:48 ordeal11 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 22:24 deacon.frost wrote:On April 06 2019 21:58 JoeCool wrote:
Still don't like the way groups are drawn. Not taking anything away from Maru, you have to admit that he had a rather easy path to the finals. To the ro8? Sure, to the finals? Nope? Ye his path was really "rough". I would pick Trap/Dear every single time over rogue/dark/classic. Not even same tier.
Sure you can pick them. But considering PvT Dear and Trap have had great results recently. It might not look rough after looking at how Maru won, but put any other terran there they probably wont make it out of those 2 matches. Oh and TY did not actually, otherwise we would've had TY vs Maru in the semis.
If Trap and Dear had been other side of the bracket, Trap has beaten Dark consistently last year and Dear has beaten rogue. So I would have expected one of them in the semis either way. They would've given a very tough match had they been up against anyone but Maru.
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On April 07 2019 02:06 Morbidius wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 15:16 ParksonVN wrote:On April 06 2019 14:47 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Maru has tied soO's record for 4 finals in a row and may soon tie/exceed Mvp's record in titles depending on how you count GSL vs The World. Crazy Why do some people always (advertently) forget that Inno also won 4 GSLs (if counts GSL vs The World)? Its schrodinger's GSL. When they need to argue for Mvp being bonjwa then its a GSL. When its Inno its not.
GSL were really clear about this at the time: GSL WC had a qualification system, so counts as a GSL. GSL vs the World is an invit and so it's a special event which counts as a premier event but doesn't count as a GSL.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On April 07 2019 05:39 ValM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2019 03:48 ordeal11 wrote:On April 06 2019 22:24 deacon.frost wrote:On April 06 2019 21:58 JoeCool wrote:
Still don't like the way groups are drawn. Not taking anything away from Maru, you have to admit that he had a rather easy path to the finals. To the ro8? Sure, to the finals? Nope? Ye his path was really "rough". I would pick Trap/Dear every single time over rogue/dark/classic. Not even same tier. Sure you can pick them. But considering PvT Dear and Trap have had great results recently. It might not look rough after looking at how Maru won, but put any other terran there they probably wont make it out of those 2 matches. Oh and TY did not actually, otherwise we would've had TY vs Maru in the semis. If Trap and Dear had been other side of the bracket, Trap has beaten Dark consistently last year and Dear has beaten rogue. So I would have expected one of them in the semis either way. They would've given a very tough match had they been up against anyone but Maru.
Pretty much. Also it’s largely irrelevant how they’d do vs the Zergs on the other side when it comes to playing Maru anyway.
General consensus, or at least the majority of the whine I see is that Protoss is favoured against Terran, and Trap and Dear were considered the best PvTers specifically by many, so if facing those two in a matchup that’s apparently unflavoured is easy I’m not sure on what rationale.
Trap didn’t show nearly his best games which kind of was disappointing.
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On April 06 2019 22:57 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2019 21:58 JoeCool wrote:
Still don't like the way groups are drawn. Not taking anything away from Maru, you have to admit that he had a rather easy path to the finals. Trap 2-0'd INno and 3-2'd TY this very season. How can he be considered an easy opponent for a terran at all
Not to mention Maru also beat Dear who was in the middle of a 20-0 vs T winning streak and looked super crisp in his Ro16 games. I don't think his path was easy at all and I'm pretty surprised he even made it to the finals given his non-GSL tournament performances. It seems to further reinforce his strength as a preparation player and weakness as a weekender.
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I hope Classic prepares as if the world would end if he loses. If not, this are going to be the shittiest finals of all time... and that trophy is not easy to win.
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On April 06 2019 15:21 MockHamill wrote:
If Maru wins the final I think he really is the best player in the world.
Fixed for you 
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Late but congrats to Maru for the 4th in a row finals, do we just shut down GSL if he wins another 3 in a row? Hoping it won't be as one-sided as last year's TvP finals. With that said I'm cheering for the Chintoss to take this, would also be a great storyline
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On April 07 2019 03:40 Wombat_NI wrote:
I don't really think there is a definitive GOAT in SC2, if there are such divergent opinions and multiple candidates. You're never going to get absolute unanimity but a Gretzky or a Michael Jordan aren't going to receive a massive amount of dissenting opinion.
Maru is pretty bloody good, he's 100% on that tier of GOAT candidates, his peak play is especially scary. He hasn't quite brought his A game across into marathon tournaments, some marathon monsters like Taeja never quite brought their chops fully to bear at a GSL.
I think both formats are important to be considered the undisputed GOAT.
For those who stress the GSL and preparation as the holy grail and above weekenders, I don't really think that's entirely fair, as that preparation isn't done solo by the individual, it involves their team as well, and having internal practice partners of Code A or latter stages of Code S calibre to actually test and refine your builds with.
Teamless players don't have that, foreigners tend not to have that at least to the same degree that Korean teamhouses naturally suit.
That's aside the other aspect of strategy games, which is on the fly adaptation as well, especially at weekenders where you as the Code S calibre Korean are likely to face opponents who know much more about you than you do about them.
Yeah preparation is hard without a team but if you play WCS America 5 times in the peak of your career and never make the finals you're not the GOAT.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
Taeja?
I wasn’t throwing him into the GOAT ring, more invoking his obviously better performances in weekend tournaments than prep heavy ones, kind of the opposite to Maru really.
Maybe there are better examples of players who bring their best to those kind of tournies, can’t think of one to mind.
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So who is most likely going to win and why?
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EPT
