|
I think they should keep this cyclone with some slight changes. I think ideally
+ 30 hp (150 hp from 120)
+ 1 range (6 from 5)
- 300 damage over 14 seconds (from 400 over 14)
- Mag field 300 (+400 damage vs armored over 14 seconds)
+ Cyclone requires no addon to be built
I think lockons damage should be weaker until people get mag-field accelerator (Because let's be honest unless you want to go mech you shouldn't be given that much damage) Additionally I think this unit will need to have somewhat more HP so it can hold some cheeses or have some survivability vs new tanks in TvT or when holding cheeses. This could, however, be replaced by having it be a techlab unit instead of a reactor unit. This way you can get the unit out to hold a cheese but can't quite reactor it as it costs 4 supply. The change from techlab -> no requirement is big because holding things such as ravager allins, proxy 2gate, shield battery voidray, or any early on push you would have to get a techlab on the factory which already takes too long but then you would also have to get a unit worse than current siege tank and more supply heavy in the phase where supply maximum count is low. The way I imagine the current cyclone will interact in the game today is that it will either be a gimmick mech unit that people mass back the way they did in 2016 or it will be made to hold warp prism / banshee (It actually does hold speed prism really well) But that is assuming your opponent did not put on any pressure to punish the lack of an early game defensive unit
|
I don't really have valid opinions on the balance changes due to the lack of complete understanding of the game, but I see absolutely no point in the automation of Warpgate. While the action being quite minimal and doesn't require the biggest focus in-game, it's always been a core fundamental task for Protoss players. I just don't see the necessity for this change; we're talking about a game that's supposed to be mechanically intensive in the end.
|
On October 10 2018 21:49 Ryu3600 wrote:
I think they should keep this cyclone with some slight changes. I think ideally
+ 1 range (6 from 5)
woooooooah, I didn't notice this when I first read the OP. this is a serious mistake in the balance notes!
the 3.8 version of lock-on is supposed to have an activation range of 7, not 5.
the 3.8 version did indeed have an activation range of 5 for long time, but this was because of a bug that went unresolved for months. check it out:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503667-serious-problem-or-bug-on-cyclone
|
On October 10 2018 15:20 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2018 12:09 Athenau wrote:proxy voidrays, oracles Wat? Lock-on cyclones are way better vs voidrays and oracles. Live cyclone AA is garbage. The current response to proxy voidray is cyclone into reactor into swap to starport for double viking production. You can't fit a tech lab in there.
You don't need to if the cyclone IS your form of defense, cyclones deal 400 damage over 14 seconds and can do some from a range of 15, they are way better than vikings in lower numbers, if you go for TL, get magfield and cyclones 3-4 I don't see how voidrays would do anything to you. A single cyclone with magfield kills a void ray in about 5 seconds, its no joke how they are against them.
Even just going for 1-2 without magfield is much better because they can actually kill void rays until vikings are out, not to mention they are way better at dealing with the initial oracle that current cyclones.
Before the patch there were gas first cyclone expand builds that were really good because they offered defense and map control and considering that was back when pylon overcharge still existed, imagine a cyclone arriving in a protoss were he only has a stalker and a battery on the way, thats some good potential damage without much investment.
|
On October 10 2018 22:14 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2018 21:49 Ryu3600 wrote:
I think they should keep this cyclone with some slight changes. I think ideally
+ 1 range (6 from 5)
woooooooah, I didn't notice this when I first read the OP. this is a serious mistake in the balance notes! the 3.8 version of lock-on is supposed to have an activation range of 7, not 5. the 3.8 version did indeed have an activation range of 5 for long time, but this was because of a bug that went unresolved for months. check it out: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503667-serious-problem-or-bug-on-cyclone
Thats the auto attack range, lock on range is still 7.
|
On October 10 2018 22:22 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2018 22:14 SHODAN wrote:On October 10 2018 21:49 Ryu3600 wrote:
I think they should keep this cyclone with some slight changes. I think ideally
+ 1 range (6 from 5)
woooooooah, I didn't notice this when I first read the OP. this is a serious mistake in the balance notes! the 3.8 version of lock-on is supposed to have an activation range of 7, not 5. the 3.8 version did indeed have an activation range of 5 for long time, but this was because of a bug that went unresolved for months. check it out: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/503667-serious-problem-or-bug-on-cyclone Thats the auto attack range lock, on range is still 7.
uh... wait a minute. looks like I've been quoting the wrong version number of the cyclone. looks like Blizzard have also been quoting the wrong version number of the cyclone.
Blizzard have made a typo in their notes.
the version of the cyclone they are describing is the pre-3.8 cyclone.
the 3.8 cyclone is the tornado blaster version (aka, the current live version). this is according to the liquipedia notes:
 Cyclone
the pre-3.8 version is supposed to have an activation range of 7, including auto-cast!
the bug existed for most of pre-3.8 and reduced its auto-cast activation range to 5. this bug did not affect its manual cast range.
this bug was fixed 3 months before 3.8 (aka, tornado blasters) were introduced. the the fixed pre-3.8 version of the cyclone had 7 auto-cast activation range
|
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3idKHdJp_YAJ:us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/20372512/starcraft-ii-legacy-of-the-void-380-patch-notes-11-21-2016 &cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-b-ab
(cached because the url ain't loading)
here are the 3.8 patch notes for the cyclone:
Cyclone
The anti-ground weapon has been heavily changed.
Damage changed from 18 to 3 (+2 vs armored).
Range decreased from 5 to 4, and the new "Mag-Field Launchers" upgrade gives +2 range.
Attack period change from .7 seconds to .1 seconds and random delays removed.
Weapon upgrade amount changed from 2 to 1 to account for the new damage value.
Changed weapon name to Tornado Blaster.
No anti-air weapon.
Movement speed decreased from 4.72 to 4.13.
Lock On can now target air units and air structures only. Range is unchanged, and the ability now deals 160 damage over 14 seconds.
Removed auto-cast for the Lock On ability.
Supply cost decreased from 4 to 3.
Increased health from 120 to 180.
The Cyclone no longer requires a Tech Lab, and can now be built with a Reactor.
The Cyclone auto-attack missile art has been adjusted to reduce visual clutter.
The missiles fired from the Lock On ability are unchanged.
Removed the Cyclone Lock On Damage upgrade from the Factory Tech Lab.
in other words, the live version (tornado blasters) IS the 3.8 version!
so... the cyclone Blizzard are describing in Balance Mod Update Oct 9, 2018 is the pre-3.8 version.
|
lol guys calm down, no they didn't made a typo, you are simply mixing two different things up.
Pre 3.8 cyclone had 2 forms of attack.
-Lock on: Activated ability, 7 range, 400 damage, both ground and air.
-Auto attack: The normal attack of the unit, 5 range, 18 damage, can also target both ground and air.
Before nobody ever talked about that attack because it was garbagge, however the cyclone did have a normal attack that would be used when either lock was on cooldown or if the auto cast was deactivated and an attack comman was issued.
The reason Blizzard is mentioning that attack is that current 4.0 cyclone has a more distinctive difference between the 2, the ground only auto attack and the air only AA activated ability.
However test patch cyclone is very much the 7 range, 400 damage, ground and air lock on we all know and love.
|
On October 10 2018 23:08 Lexender wrote:
lol guys calm down, no they didn't made a typo, you are simply mixing two different things up.
Pre 3.8 cyclone had 2 forms of attack.
-Lock on: Activated ability, 7 range, 400 damage, both ground and air.
-Auto attack: The normal attack of the unit, 5 range, 18 damage, can also target both ground and air.
Before nobody ever talked about that attack because it was garbagge, however the cyclone did have a normal attack that would be used when either lock was on cooldown or if the auto cast was deactivated and an attack comman was issued.
The reason Blizzard is mentioning that attack is that current 4.0 cyclone has a more distinctive difference between the 2, the ground only auto attack and the air only AA activated ability.
However test patch cyclone is very much the 7 range, 400 damage, ground and air lock on we all know and love.
pre-3.8 cyclone didn't have an auto-attack. it just sat there doing nothing until the lock-on cooldown was over. at least that is my memory... but yeah, I get it now :D they took the pre-3.8 cyclone and added a weak auto attack
|
So one Terran finding success means you need to nerf cyclones? Why don't you listen to your own advice and let the meta sort itself out. It's only a matter of time before Maru's proxies get crushed.
TY has already show-cased one of the potential weakness in Maru's proxies. When Maru's proxy fails, he goes 3cc to catch up while flying his rax home. His rax aren't making units or addons. This severely cuts his unit production leaving him open to a counter push.
For protoss, the only real proxy threat is reactor cyclone and they would recognize it faster by scouting directly vs trying to find it in fog of war. Build some more stalkers and a shield battery and you're done. Lift with pheonix. Attack with oracle/VR. Chrono immo in the meantime. Whatever. All this does is keep Protoss honest instead of letting them get a stupidly fast 3-4min third base followed by their double forge and 8-10 gate explosion. If Protoss could do that every game, Terran has no timing whatsoever.
Zerg is probably the most tricky. If they hold the 2 rax proxy, Terran will be mainly be relying on factory and starport units to defend. I've seen a queen nydus attack kill Maru before but I forget how well they held the proxy and when the scouting rax was killed. Either way, Leenock and Reynor were in a prime position to eliminate Maru from the GSL so it's not like he's invincible in that match-up either.
|
Elentos
55594 Posts
On October 10 2018 23:36 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2018 23:08 Lexender wrote:
lol guys calm down, no they didn't made a typo, you are simply mixing two different things up.
Pre 3.8 cyclone had 2 forms of attack.
-Lock on: Activated ability, 7 range, 400 damage, both ground and air.
-Auto attack: The normal attack of the unit, 5 range, 18 damage, can also target both ground and air.
Before nobody ever talked about that attack because it was garbagge, however the cyclone did have a normal attack that would be used when either lock was on cooldown or if the auto cast was deactivated and an attack comman was issued.
The reason Blizzard is mentioning that attack is that current 4.0 cyclone has a more distinctive difference between the 2, the ground only auto attack and the air only AA activated ability.
However test patch cyclone is very much the 7 range, 400 damage, ground and air lock on we all know and love. pre-3.8 cyclone didn't have an auto-attack. it just sat there doing nothing until the lock-on cooldown was over. at least that is my memory... but yeah, I get it now :D they took the pre-3.8 cyclone and added a weak auto attack
Nope, your memory is wrong, it had an auto-attack that was just never considered because cyclones were only built for lock-on. The lock-on was its only redeeming value.
|
The cyclone should not be a 120 hp 4 supply unit that requires a techlab lmao the current siegetank is better in every way
|
So now the cyclone goes from a decent early game unit to the reaper 2.0. RIP cyclone.
Also 120 hp unit with 4 supply  . I remember there was once another 4 supply unit called the tempest, but it had 450hp.
|
There are still zergs playing this game... NERFHAMMER
|
Elentos
55594 Posts
On October 11 2018 01:59 Loccstana wrote:
So now the cyclone goes from a decent early game unit to the reaper 2.0.
Last time it was in this state we called it Terran mothership core.
|
On October 11 2018 01:59 Loccstana wrote:So now the cyclone goes from a decent early game unit to the reaper 2.0. RIP cyclone. Also 120 hp unit with 4 supply . I remember there was once another 4 supply unit called the tempest, but it had 450hp.
A unit that does 800dmg vs armored with 14 range ?
That new cyclon beat a BC alone without being touch if it doesn't yamato it.
It's freaking OP.
|
If we are talking QOL changes, can't we make swapping addons easier as terran? It's a pain in the ass.
|
On October 11 2018 03:08 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 01:59 Loccstana wrote:So now the cyclone goes from a decent early game unit to the reaper 2.0. RIP cyclone. Also 120 hp unit with 4 supply . I remember there was once another 4 supply unit called the tempest, but it had 450hp. A unit that does 800dmg vs armored with 14 range ? That new cyclon beat a BC alone without being touch if it doesn't yamato it. It's freaking OP.
It's so OP that it was always built once and then never again because it sucks against everything except single air harass units.
|
Elentos
55594 Posts
On October 11 2018 03:51 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 03:08 Tyrhanius wrote:On October 11 2018 01:59 Loccstana wrote:So now the cyclone goes from a decent early game unit to the reaper 2.0. RIP cyclone. Also 120 hp unit with 4 supply . I remember there was once another 4 supply unit called the tempest, but it had 450hp. A unit that does 800dmg vs armored with 14 range ? That new cyclon beat a BC alone without being touch if it doesn't yamato it. It's freaking OP. It's so OP that it was always built once and then never again because it sucks against everything except single air harass units.
It's pretty good against pylons and nexus tbh.
|
On October 11 2018 03:08 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2018 01:59 Loccstana wrote:So now the cyclone goes from a decent early game unit to the reaper 2.0. RIP cyclone. Also 120 hp unit with 4 supply . I remember there was once another 4 supply unit called the tempest, but it had 450hp. A unit that does 800dmg vs armored with 14 range ? That new cyclon beat a BC alone without being touch if it doesn't yamato it. It's freaking OP.
A viking can beat a BC alone with being touch if it doesn't yamato it
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
