EPTBalance Mod Update Oct 9, 2018 - Page 6
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1153 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
Just give the current cyclones more air damage with rapid fire launchers and it will work as a mobile support unit against air in the mid and late game. There is no point going back to a useless version of the cyclone when the current one could be made useful with a small adjustment. | ||
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Elantris
66 Posts
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MockHamill
Sweden1798 Posts
On October 11 2018 05:01 Elantris wrote: I hate mech lobby. None of real starcraft players or spectators want mech being viable. It's boring and slow and always degrades eventually. Are you joking? The best game ever played in Starcraft 2 was a mech vs bio game, Innovation vs Taeja. What makes SC2 interesting is variation and depth. If only bio or only mech was viable the game would be more limited compared to if both are viable. The more play styles that can be used the more interesting the play and spectator experience becomes. | ||
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Athenau
571 Posts
The old cyclones was completely useless while the current one is good early game and mediocre beyond that. No it wasn't. | ||
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MrWayne
219 Posts
On October 11 2018 04:27 SHODAN wrote: lock-on cyclones are the answer to swarm hosts. oh, you mindlessly sent all your swarm hosts across the map? gg, massive locust wave at my 4th base? well guess what, sweetie, my merry band of cyclone / hellion got to your 5th hatch first. yep, it's already dead. b-b-but, muh ravager swarm host contain! yeah, that ain't happening anymore. b-b-but you sacked your cyclones to do it, r-right? now I can just a-move... NOPE :D hate to bust your balls kid, but my 4.73 speed cyclones can outrange and outspeed everything you have on the ground. now zergs have to make infestors or lurkers to stop cyclones... it's so dirty I love it congratulation man, you were so tenacious commenting in every single balance update thread, you deserve this change! But I'm a little bit disappointed you didn't knew the old cyclone had a normal attack.  | ||
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Elantris
66 Posts
On October 11 2018 05:19 MockHamill wrote: The best game ever played in Starcraft 2 was a mech vs bio game This is so terran. | ||
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winsonsonho
Korea (South)143 Posts
With the upgrade the first four interceptors would come out at intervals of 0.09s (67% faster than patch version) and the last 4 at 0.18s (50% faster than patch version). Carriers will definitely not be as strong as they were but they will be easier to produce, seems like a good trade to me. I play Protoss and I hate carriers with a passion, I want them to be a powerful option but not the be all and end all unit they are currently. | ||
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Fezvezfez
58 Posts
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Xamo
Spain886 Posts
On October 11 2018 06:33 Fezvezfez wrote: So many reverts make me really sad... Many people (including myself) were complaining over the years because the balance team never reverted a bad change. Now they seem to be more mature and recognize their previous failed attempts. So many reverts make me really happy... | ||
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QuinnTheEskimo
Germany55 Posts
I remember Nathanias abusing the old Cyclone for hours on end vP. Ultimately, it was removed/changed with some babbeling about not wanting to create a mech Marine, because there already is the Marine. On the whole, the old Cyclone never seemed to really fit with anything or anybody. Bringing back both feels very strange. | ||
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Athenau
571 Posts
On October 11 2018 07:47 QuinnTheEskimo wrote: A big thing about the old Disruptor was that in combination with the Warp Prism's pick up range it would wreck mineral lines over and over with hardly any risk involved. I remember Nathanias abusing the old Cyclone for hours on end vP. Ultimately, it was removed/changed with some babbeling about not wanting to create a mech Marine, because there already is the Marine. On the whole, the old Cyclone never seemed to really fit with anything or anybody. Bringing back both feels very strange. "Not wanting to create a mech marine" makes no sense whatsoever. At least their rationale for reverting it is reasonable. | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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franzji
United States583 Posts
The balance team just can't figure out a good role for the unit. Why have a unit with no role. Sometimes units are mistakes. The mothership core might have been a mistake. Maybe the cyclone too. | ||
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washikie
United States752 Posts
On October 12 2018 02:51 youngjiddle wrote: I'm a little late to the thread, but I just wanted to say that I hope the balance team seriously looks at just removing the cyclone from the Terran's lineup. The balance team just can't figure out a good role for the unit. Why have a unit with no role. Sometimes units are mistakes. The mothership core might have been a mistake. Maybe the cyclone too. But the cyclone does have a role in All matchups in tvt its kind of a catch all deffensive unit that you can build to shore up your early game deffense, in tvp its the backbone enabler of the proxy meta, the threat of proxy reactor cyclone forces protoss to hold their front and allows Terran to instead do a drop or go for banshees. In tvz the cyclone is a unit you build when you scout some kind of Allin, it's great vs roaches, useful vs ravagers, and also helpful vs ling bane Allin. Another nice thing about the cyclone is it gives Terran a powerfull way to punish a zerg who's Allin has failed, the counter Allin potential of cyclones is an important aspect of the tvz meta, you might not see pros using them much but I think it's because they are good enough that Zerg are not going for 1 base allins much vs Terran. Now you can argue that this role as an early game stabilizer is not a good one for the unit but I think it is. Both Zerg and toss have tools that are designed to be good at holding early game aggression. Protoss has shield battery's and Zerg has queens, the cyclone is like the Terran equivalent of this it's something Terran has that gives them stability and safety. | ||
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On October 12 2018 03:13 washikie wrote: But the cyclone does have a role in All matchups in tvt its kind of a catch all deffensive unit that you can build to shore up your early game deffense, in tvp its the backbone enabler of the proxy meta, the threat of proxy reactor cyclone forces protoss to hold their front and allows Terran to instead do a drop or go for banshees. In tvz the cyclone is a unit you build when you scout some kind of Allin, it's great vs roaches, useful vs ravagers, and also helpful vs ling bane Allin. Another nice thing about the cyclone is it gives Terran a powerfull way to punish a zerg who's Allin has failed, the counter Allin potential of cyclones is an important aspect of the tvz meta, you might not see pros using them much but I think it's because they are good enough that Zerg are not going for 1 base allins much vs Terran. Now you can argue that this role as an early game stabilizer is not a good one for the unit but I think it is. Both Zerg and toss have tools that are designed to be good at holding early game aggression. Protoss has shield battery's and Zerg has queens, the cyclone is like the Terran equivalent of this it's something Terran has that gives them stability and safety. Let me remind you that terran has the bunker+repair, a bunker that can be salvaged for it's money back. Two base allins are pretty horrible vs terran right now too, due mostly to tank strength. Terran's don't make cyclones vs. a two base allin. The thing is terran has other units that fit the early defense role. for example in TvT a hellion is good vs early reapers. Instead currently, terran has to build some cyclones because if they don't, they will lose to the enemies cyclones. right now, honestly, I feel the unit is pretty much used to cheese protoss, or to not die in TvT to the other enemies cyclones. | ||
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MrWayne
219 Posts
On October 12 2018 02:51 youngjiddle wrote: I'm a little late to the thread, but I just wanted to say that I hope the balance team seriously looks at just removing the cyclone from the Terran's lineup. The balance team just can't figure out a good role for the unit. Why have a unit with no role. Sometimes units are mistakes. The mothership core might have been a mistake. Maybe the cyclone too. I don't really see the logic behind your reasoning, the only people who should be bothered if the cyclone don't have a role in the game are terran players because they would never build them. It seems to me that you're just a bit salty that the cyclon is so good at cheesing protoss.  btw the new/old cyclone is very good at "designated pressure" in TvP. | ||
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DomeGetta
480 Posts
There are a couple of universal issues with the game that basically everyone agrees on. I would like to focus on TVP Tvp: Proxy play sucks to watch. Whether its OP or not is still up for debate and blizzcon provides a decent sample to test but its definitely not good for viewers. Up through midgame balance is not terrible but t favored. Late mid game to all of late game is heavily toss favored. If the t player is not 2 base all inn its too easy for the p player to saturate 3 base. Even if the T player takes a greedy third cc he wont keep up due to chrono grades on top of just plain overall better available tech late game. Even IF the new BCs change that. Which is a big if..what are we hoping to accomplish here? Setting up early hots zvp ? Split map turtle to max air fight?? Why not try to propose a change that will give both sides incentive to harass and skirmish from the mid game? Aggression that is not all in is what makes for the best games for viewers. So players are demonstrating their micro macro multi all game and gaining edges from solid execution? So if i do better all game harassing and defending while macroing i still have a chance to win? Best example is tvz prior to last mine nerf in hots. To accomplish that in tvp you have to fix chrono and eliminate the "uncounterable" deathball unit compositions. Before disrupter storm had a counter colossus had a counter. There isnt any unit comp from terran that can be microd to counter all the splash plus tempests that counter libs. This on top of always being behind upgrades makes not all inning a losing strategy. Get rid of carriers completley. They are the definition of lets make a deathball army. Nerf terran early and mid game all in aggression curb chrono down and get rid of disrupters. Get rid of BC. Put nexus range limit on SB toss does not need ANOTHER bullshit all in cheese to go with the 100 others. Or no i know reduce blink dt cooldown and make carriers different...exactly the same but different. Cause u know they wont still just be mass deathball units...nerf feedback! For all them doom drops countered by 1 HT...change tempests so they counter libs even harder...dope smokin goin on. | ||
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Jj_82
Swaziland419 Posts
 And generally please consider late game maxed out armies more. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1153 Posts
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