• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:12
CEST 18:12
KST 01:12
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak2DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview1herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025)15Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, GuMiho, Classic, Cure6Code S RO8 Preview: Classic, Reynor, Maru, GuMiho4
Community News
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1)3Weekly Cups (May 12-18): Clem sweeps WardiTV May3Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results212025 GSL Season 2 (Qualifiers)14Code S Season 1 - Classic & GuMiho advance to RO4 (2025)4
StarCraft 2
General
Any reason why RuFF's stream is still on sidebar? DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Info & Preview Power Rank: October 2018 herO wins GSL Code S Season 1 (2025) Code S Season 2 (2025) - Qualifier Results
Tourneys
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) [GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series DreamHack Dallas 2025 announced (May 23-25) SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed
Brood War
General
Artosis baned on twitch ? [ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak who is JiriKara /Cipisek/ from CZ Practice Partners (Official) BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] GosuLeague RO16 - Tue & Wed 20:00+CET
Strategy
I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
What do you want from future RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Grand Theft Auto VI Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread US Politics Mega-thread Men's Fashion Thread
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Yes Sir! How Commanding Impr…
TrAiDoS
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 16728 users

Serral defeats Stats to win GSL vs. The World - Page 6

Forum Index > SC2 General
153 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
billynasty
Profile Joined October 2014
United States260 Posts
August 07 2018 00:14 GMT
#101
On August 07 2018 05:13 IshinShishi wrote:
Maru's 2018 has been as dominant with much stronger competition, I wouldn't dream of putting Serral above him, but a top 5 PR def seems fitting.


I wouldnt dream of putting Serral above Maru either, but for 1 day he was. And i'm pretty sure that over the past couple years, in head to head they're even. He's at the very least on their level atm
i dont miss God but i sure miss Santa Claus
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 01:16:49
August 07 2018 01:16 GMT
#102
On August 07 2018 09:14 billynasty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 05:13 IshinShishi wrote:
Maru's 2018 has been as dominant with much stronger competition, I wouldn't dream of putting Serral above him, but a top 5 PR def seems fitting.

And i'm pretty sure that over the past couple years, in head to head they're even. He's at the very least on their level atm

They've only met twice. Once at WeSG a few months ago where maru won 3-0, and once yesterday in the team showmatch where Serral won 1-0.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
billynasty
Profile Joined October 2014
United States260 Posts
August 07 2018 01:53 GMT
#103
On August 07 2018 10:16 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 09:14 billynasty wrote:
On August 07 2018 05:13 IshinShishi wrote:
Maru's 2018 has been as dominant with much stronger competition, I wouldn't dream of putting Serral above him, but a top 5 PR def seems fitting.

And i'm pretty sure that over the past couple years, in head to head they're even. He's at the very least on their level atm

They've only met twice. Once at WeSG a few months ago where maru won 3-0, and once yesterday in the team showmatch where Serral won 1-0.


According to Aligulac on 01/22/2018 during the IEM Season XII World Championship it says Serral won 2-0 vs Maru.
I didn't think they met but then i saw this, guess Aligulac isn't always accurate?
Heres's a screenshot of it: [image loading]
i dont miss God but i sure miss Santa Claus
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4902 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 02:03:29
August 07 2018 01:59 GMT
#104
oh yeah that online qualifier..... Tbh I am the first memeing about how people making funny excuses of why some koreans lose to foreigners, specially in the past (ping,jetlag, not caring etc etc) but all memes have a foundation of true and Korea to EU server ping is this one. It is seriously unplayable.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Bub
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States3518 Posts
August 07 2018 02:32 GMT
#105
All that extra hard work had certainly paid off for the finnish. Congratulations!
XK ßubonic
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 03:16:16
August 07 2018 03:15 GMT
#106
On August 07 2018 10:53 billynasty wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 10:16 Fango wrote:
On August 07 2018 09:14 billynasty wrote:
On August 07 2018 05:13 IshinShishi wrote:
Maru's 2018 has been as dominant with much stronger competition, I wouldn't dream of putting Serral above him, but a top 5 PR def seems fitting.

And i'm pretty sure that over the past couple years, in head to head they're even. He's at the very least on their level atm

They've only met twice. Once at WeSG a few months ago where maru won 3-0, and once yesterday in the team showmatch where Serral won 1-0.


According to Aligulac on 01/22/2018 during the IEM Season XII World Championship it says Serral won 2-0 vs Maru.
I didn't think they met but then i saw this, guess Aligulac isn't always accurate?
Heres's a screenshot of it:

The problem is that aligulac takes into account every game played to the same degree, regardless of the circumstance of the match. When Serral won 2-0 it was on the EU server, with Maru playing from korea. The ping playing from kr to eu is ridiculous, to the point where you can't expect to win playing from kr. That's why no one takes those kind of cross-server results seriously.

Only Maru and I think Trap even tried to play in that qualifier, the rest deemed it unwinnable. Hell I'm not close to the speed of pro players and I find 200-300 ping unplayable.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
uummpaa
Profile Joined July 2018
238 Posts
August 07 2018 05:10 GMT
#107
On August 07 2018 02:03 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 00:58 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 23:02 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:21 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:06 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 19:19 Drake wrote:
On August 06 2018 00:01 Riner1212 wrote:
I have to congratulate serial for displaying great perseverance/prowess to win the tournament, but winning one tournament does not make him a god.


expect he won his last 4 tournaments ..

He won IEM Katowice and WeSG?


right he was only top4 in those, so he just won the last three tournaments he entered, which shouldn't change the point to much i presume

No but are wcs wins really that valuble? The guy said winning one event doesn't make you a god, which is true. So I'd assume winning easy events doesn't either.


"easy", i see

so far scarlett took more series from serral than dark in the last b05, but i'm sure that means nothing as well.

by the way, why was there never a korean that dominated that hard outside of korea, neither polt, nor hydra where close to the consistency of serral (or are they not so good as well anymore?)

but it´s pointless anyway, i see serral eye to eye with top koreans, the fact that he beats them in a game called sc2 is enough for me.

if you are willing to change or reinterpret anything but the natural laws themself too not change the "korea > rest" idea, all power to you

Scarlett taking two maps of Serral was literally a 1 in 20 result. It's probably the only time Serral's been on match point all year. Wcs tournaments are easy for Serral. They'd be just easy for the top koreans as well (exampes being WeSG and Katowice). Don't make the mistake of cherry picking the results that favour your view and not looking at the tournaments as a whole.

You seem to think I'm trying to downplay Serral's skill, which isn't true. He's on the same level as top koerans. What I'm trying to say is that wcs events aren't much of a challenge for him, and the level of play in them isn't close to that of korean events. I couldn't care less if he farms 3, 4, or even 10 of them. It's like when SpeCial farms the latin american events, doesn't say anything about how he'll be in the global tournaments.

And btw, koreans like Polt and Hydra were not on the same level as those who dominated in korea like Maru or Dark either.


scarlett is also the last non-korean to bet him offline iirc

speaking of cherrypicking:
this works not only for players but for tournaments:

serrals looses vs classic in IEM -> shows that classic was to good
serral beats classic in WESG -> there wasn't enough on the line for classic, if he would played seriously bla bla...

serral wins 3 WCS in dominating fashion -> easy, every top korean can do taht (even though non ever done it)
maru wins 2 GSL -> amazing, nobody can come close to him, if serral was in korea he would not come close

serral comes to korea and beats a top player of every race -> meh, it wasn't a GSL so it doesn't count or sth about recent form of the players.

i just looked at the two GSLs maru won, and tbh he never hat to beat more than 2-3 "top" players (players like solar are surley not rated higher than polt for example).
I bet if serral would have won the exact same matches (which we now all no he can possibly) people would downplay that as well i'm sure.
if serral would win a blizzcon, IEM WC or a GSL, people would still pick the cherries there as well, and if he loses them, (which surley is the more likely event), it proves, that it was all hype ...

but as i already said:
some people will never change their opinion on something, no matter what happens, it's one of the banes of internet discussion


vyzion
Profile Joined August 2016
308 Posts
August 07 2018 05:56 GMT
#108
On August 07 2018 14:10 uummpaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 02:03 Fango wrote:
On August 07 2018 00:58 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 23:02 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:21 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:06 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 19:19 Drake wrote:
On August 06 2018 00:01 Riner1212 wrote:
I have to congratulate serial for displaying great perseverance/prowess to win the tournament, but winning one tournament does not make him a god.


expect he won his last 4 tournaments ..

He won IEM Katowice and WeSG?


right he was only top4 in those, so he just won the last three tournaments he entered, which shouldn't change the point to much i presume

No but are wcs wins really that valuble? The guy said winning one event doesn't make you a god, which is true. So I'd assume winning easy events doesn't either.


"easy", i see

so far scarlett took more series from serral than dark in the last b05, but i'm sure that means nothing as well.

by the way, why was there never a korean that dominated that hard outside of korea, neither polt, nor hydra where close to the consistency of serral (or are they not so good as well anymore?)

but it´s pointless anyway, i see serral eye to eye with top koreans, the fact that he beats them in a game called sc2 is enough for me.

if you are willing to change or reinterpret anything but the natural laws themself too not change the "korea > rest" idea, all power to you

Scarlett taking two maps of Serral was literally a 1 in 20 result. It's probably the only time Serral's been on match point all year. Wcs tournaments are easy for Serral. They'd be just easy for the top koreans as well (exampes being WeSG and Katowice). Don't make the mistake of cherry picking the results that favour your view and not looking at the tournaments as a whole.

You seem to think I'm trying to downplay Serral's skill, which isn't true. He's on the same level as top koerans. What I'm trying to say is that wcs events aren't much of a challenge for him, and the level of play in them isn't close to that of korean events. I couldn't care less if he farms 3, 4, or even 10 of them. It's like when SpeCial farms the latin american events, doesn't say anything about how he'll be in the global tournaments.

And btw, koreans like Polt and Hydra were not on the same level as those who dominated in korea like Maru or Dark either.


scarlett is also the last non-korean to bet him offline iirc

speaking of cherrypicking:
this works not only for players but for tournaments:

serrals looses vs classic in IEM -> shows that classic was to good
serral beats classic in WESG -> there wasn't enough on the line for classic, if he would played seriously bla bla...

serral wins 3 WCS in dominating fashion -> easy, every top korean can do taht (even though non ever done it)
maru wins 2 GSL -> amazing, nobody can come close to him, if serral was in korea he would not come close

serral comes to korea and beats a top player of every race -> meh, it wasn't a GSL so it doesn't count or sth about recent form of the players.

i just looked at the two GSLs maru won, and tbh he never hat to beat more than 2-3 "top" players (players like solar are surley not rated higher than polt for example).
I bet if serral would have won the exact same matches (which we now all no he can possibly) people would downplay that as well i'm sure.
if serral would win a blizzcon, IEM WC or a GSL, people would still pick the cherries there as well, and if he loses them, (which surley is the more likely event), it proves, that it was all hype ...

but as i already said:
some people will never change their opinion on something, no matter what happens, it's one of the banes of internet discussion





The bane of humans. Only time and results will tell.
uummpaa
Profile Joined July 2018
238 Posts
August 07 2018 06:12 GMT
#109
On August 07 2018 14:56 vyzion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 14:10 uummpaa wrote:
On August 07 2018 02:03 Fango wrote:
On August 07 2018 00:58 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 23:02 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:21 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:06 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 19:19 Drake wrote:
On August 06 2018 00:01 Riner1212 wrote:
I have to congratulate serial for displaying great perseverance/prowess to win the tournament, but winning one tournament does not make him a god.


expect he won his last 4 tournaments ..

He won IEM Katowice and WeSG?


right he was only top4 in those, so he just won the last three tournaments he entered, which shouldn't change the point to much i presume

No but are wcs wins really that valuble? The guy said winning one event doesn't make you a god, which is true. So I'd assume winning easy events doesn't either.


"easy", i see

so far scarlett took more series from serral than dark in the last b05, but i'm sure that means nothing as well.

by the way, why was there never a korean that dominated that hard outside of korea, neither polt, nor hydra where close to the consistency of serral (or are they not so good as well anymore?)

but it´s pointless anyway, i see serral eye to eye with top koreans, the fact that he beats them in a game called sc2 is enough for me.

if you are willing to change or reinterpret anything but the natural laws themself too not change the "korea > rest" idea, all power to you

Scarlett taking two maps of Serral was literally a 1 in 20 result. It's probably the only time Serral's been on match point all year. Wcs tournaments are easy for Serral. They'd be just easy for the top koreans as well (exampes being WeSG and Katowice). Don't make the mistake of cherry picking the results that favour your view and not looking at the tournaments as a whole.

You seem to think I'm trying to downplay Serral's skill, which isn't true. He's on the same level as top koerans. What I'm trying to say is that wcs events aren't much of a challenge for him, and the level of play in them isn't close to that of korean events. I couldn't care less if he farms 3, 4, or even 10 of them. It's like when SpeCial farms the latin american events, doesn't say anything about how he'll be in the global tournaments.

And btw, koreans like Polt and Hydra were not on the same level as those who dominated in korea like Maru or Dark either.


scarlett is also the last non-korean to bet him offline iirc

speaking of cherrypicking:
this works not only for players but for tournaments:

serrals looses vs classic in IEM -> shows that classic was to good
serral beats classic in WESG -> there wasn't enough on the line for classic, if he would played seriously bla bla...

serral wins 3 WCS in dominating fashion -> easy, every top korean can do taht (even though non ever done it)
maru wins 2 GSL -> amazing, nobody can come close to him, if serral was in korea he would not come close

serral comes to korea and beats a top player of every race -> meh, it wasn't a GSL so it doesn't count or sth about recent form of the players.

i just looked at the two GSLs maru won, and tbh he never hat to beat more than 2-3 "top" players (players like solar are surley not rated higher than polt for example).
I bet if serral would have won the exact same matches (which we now all no he can possibly) people would downplay that as well i'm sure.
if serral would win a blizzcon, IEM WC or a GSL, people would still pick the cherries there as well, and if he loses them, (which surley is the more likely event), it proves, that it was all hype ...

but as i already said:
some people will never change their opinion on something, no matter what happens, it's one of the banes of internet discussion





The bane of humans. Only time and results will tell.


the entire discussion here is about which results do tell and which don't ^^
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8478 Posts
August 07 2018 06:27 GMT
#110
So that's what an Ro16 GSL looks in 2018? 50% foreigners? Doesn't look like Korean domination to me at all, considering this tournament is held offline in Korea over a longer period (not just a weekend) so you have to live there. I haven't paid much attention to the SC2 scene over the past few years but this is pretty surprising considering everytime I read an SC2 there was a discussion about Koreans being to dominant etc.
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
August 07 2018 06:54 GMT
#111
On August 07 2018 15:27 Miragee wrote:
So that's what an Ro16 GSL looks in 2018? 50% foreigners? Doesn't look like Korean domination to me at all, considering this tournament is held offline in Korea over a longer period (not just a weekend) so you have to live there. I haven't paid much attention to the SC2 scene over the past few years but this is pretty surprising considering everytime I read an SC2 there was a discussion about Koreans being to dominant etc.

It's pretty much only Serral at this point, every single foreigner other than him is still getting murdered.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
vyzion
Profile Joined August 2016
308 Posts
August 07 2018 08:02 GMT
#112
On August 07 2018 15:12 uummpaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 14:56 vyzion wrote:
On August 07 2018 14:10 uummpaa wrote:
On August 07 2018 02:03 Fango wrote:
On August 07 2018 00:58 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 23:02 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:21 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:06 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 19:19 Drake wrote:
On August 06 2018 00:01 Riner1212 wrote:
I have to congratulate serial for displaying great perseverance/prowess to win the tournament, but winning one tournament does not make him a god.


expect he won his last 4 tournaments ..

He won IEM Katowice and WeSG?


right he was only top4 in those, so he just won the last three tournaments he entered, which shouldn't change the point to much i presume

No but are wcs wins really that valuble? The guy said winning one event doesn't make you a god, which is true. So I'd assume winning easy events doesn't either.


"easy", i see

so far scarlett took more series from serral than dark in the last b05, but i'm sure that means nothing as well.

by the way, why was there never a korean that dominated that hard outside of korea, neither polt, nor hydra where close to the consistency of serral (or are they not so good as well anymore?)

but it´s pointless anyway, i see serral eye to eye with top koreans, the fact that he beats them in a game called sc2 is enough for me.

if you are willing to change or reinterpret anything but the natural laws themself too not change the "korea > rest" idea, all power to you

Scarlett taking two maps of Serral was literally a 1 in 20 result. It's probably the only time Serral's been on match point all year. Wcs tournaments are easy for Serral. They'd be just easy for the top koreans as well (exampes being WeSG and Katowice). Don't make the mistake of cherry picking the results that favour your view and not looking at the tournaments as a whole.

You seem to think I'm trying to downplay Serral's skill, which isn't true. He's on the same level as top koerans. What I'm trying to say is that wcs events aren't much of a challenge for him, and the level of play in them isn't close to that of korean events. I couldn't care less if he farms 3, 4, or even 10 of them. It's like when SpeCial farms the latin american events, doesn't say anything about how he'll be in the global tournaments.

And btw, koreans like Polt and Hydra were not on the same level as those who dominated in korea like Maru or Dark either.


scarlett is also the last non-korean to bet him offline iirc

speaking of cherrypicking:
this works not only for players but for tournaments:

serrals looses vs classic in IEM -> shows that classic was to good
serral beats classic in WESG -> there wasn't enough on the line for classic, if he would played seriously bla bla...

serral wins 3 WCS in dominating fashion -> easy, every top korean can do taht (even though non ever done it)
maru wins 2 GSL -> amazing, nobody can come close to him, if serral was in korea he would not come close

serral comes to korea and beats a top player of every race -> meh, it wasn't a GSL so it doesn't count or sth about recent form of the players.

i just looked at the two GSLs maru won, and tbh he never hat to beat more than 2-3 "top" players (players like solar are surley not rated higher than polt for example).
I bet if serral would have won the exact same matches (which we now all no he can possibly) people would downplay that as well i'm sure.
if serral would win a blizzcon, IEM WC or a GSL, people would still pick the cherries there as well, and if he loses them, (which surley is the more likely event), it proves, that it was all hype ...

but as i already said:
some people will never change their opinion on something, no matter what happens, it's one of the banes of internet discussion





The bane of humans. Only time and results will tell.


the entire discussion here is about which results do tell and which don't ^^


True, but we need more data!!!
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4902 Posts
August 07 2018 08:34 GMT
#113
On August 07 2018 14:10 uummpaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 02:03 Fango wrote:
On August 07 2018 00:58 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 23:02 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:21 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:06 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 19:19 Drake wrote:
On August 06 2018 00:01 Riner1212 wrote:
I have to congratulate serial for displaying great perseverance/prowess to win the tournament, but winning one tournament does not make him a god.


expect he won his last 4 tournaments ..

He won IEM Katowice and WeSG?


right he was only top4 in those, so he just won the last three tournaments he entered, which shouldn't change the point to much i presume

No but are wcs wins really that valuble? The guy said winning one event doesn't make you a god, which is true. So I'd assume winning easy events doesn't either.


"easy", i see

so far scarlett took more series from serral than dark in the last b05, but i'm sure that means nothing as well.

by the way, why was there never a korean that dominated that hard outside of korea, neither polt, nor hydra where close to the consistency of serral (or are they not so good as well anymore?)

but it´s pointless anyway, i see serral eye to eye with top koreans, the fact that he beats them in a game called sc2 is enough for me.

if you are willing to change or reinterpret anything but the natural laws themself too not change the "korea > rest" idea, all power to you

Scarlett taking two maps of Serral was literally a 1 in 20 result. It's probably the only time Serral's been on match point all year. Wcs tournaments are easy for Serral. They'd be just easy for the top koreans as well (exampes being WeSG and Katowice). Don't make the mistake of cherry picking the results that favour your view and not looking at the tournaments as a whole.

You seem to think I'm trying to downplay Serral's skill, which isn't true. He's on the same level as top koerans. What I'm trying to say is that wcs events aren't much of a challenge for him, and the level of play in them isn't close to that of korean events. I couldn't care less if he farms 3, 4, or even 10 of them. It's like when SpeCial farms the latin american events, doesn't say anything about how he'll be in the global tournaments.

And btw, koreans like Polt and Hydra were not on the same level as those who dominated in korea like Maru or Dark either.


scarlett is also the last non-korean to bet him offline iirc

speaking of cherrypicking:
this works not only for players but for tournaments:

serrals looses vs classic in IEM -> shows that classic was to good
serral beats classic in WESG -> there wasn't enough on the line for classic, if he would played seriously bla bla...

serral wins 3 WCS in dominating fashion -> easy, every top korean can do taht (even though non ever done it)
maru wins 2 GSL -> amazing, nobody can come close to him, if serral was in korea he would not come close

serral comes to korea and beats a top player of every race -> meh, it wasn't a GSL so it doesn't count or sth about recent form of the players.

i just looked at the two GSLs maru won, and tbh he never hat to beat more than 2-3 "top" players (players like solar are surley not rated higher than polt for example).
I bet if serral would have won the exact same matches (which we now all no he can possibly) people would downplay that as well i'm sure.
if serral would win a blizzcon, IEM WC or a GSL, people would still pick the cherries there as well, and if he loses them, (which surley is the more likely event), it proves, that it was all hype ...

but as i already said:
some people will never change their opinion on something, no matter what happens, it's one of the banes of internet discussion






well at least is not called pacthzerg by teamliquid
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
LSN
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany696 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 09:24:08
August 07 2018 09:23 GMT
#114
On August 07 2018 17:34 Argonauta wrote:
well at least is not called pacthzerg by teamliquid


They got more careful as they know their one-way bias has been revealed loads of times in the past 8 years.

GZ Serral btw.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
August 07 2018 10:00 GMT
#115
On August 07 2018 15:27 Miragee wrote:
So that's what an Ro16 GSL looks in 2018? 50% foreigners? Doesn't look like Korean domination to me at all, considering this tournament is held offline in Korea over a longer period (not just a weekend) so you have to live there. I haven't paid much attention to the SC2 scene over the past few years but this is pretty surprising considering everytime I read an SC2 there was a discussion about Koreans being to dominant etc.


It’s 12.5% foreigners for this GSL in ro16
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 14:07:25
August 07 2018 13:59 GMT
#116
On August 07 2018 14:10 uummpaa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 02:03 Fango wrote:
On August 07 2018 00:58 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 23:02 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:21 uummpaa wrote:
On August 06 2018 22:06 Fango wrote:
On August 06 2018 19:19 Drake wrote:
On August 06 2018 00:01 Riner1212 wrote:
I have to congratulate serial for displaying great perseverance/prowess to win the tournament, but winning one tournament does not make him a god.


expect he won his last 4 tournaments ..

He won IEM Katowice and WeSG?


right he was only top4 in those, so he just won the last three tournaments he entered, which shouldn't change the point to much i presume

No but are wcs wins really that valuble? The guy said winning one event doesn't make you a god, which is true. So I'd assume winning easy events doesn't either.


"easy", i see

so far scarlett took more series from serral than dark in the last b05, but i'm sure that means nothing as well.

by the way, why was there never a korean that dominated that hard outside of korea, neither polt, nor hydra where close to the consistency of serral (or are they not so good as well anymore?)

but it´s pointless anyway, i see serral eye to eye with top koreans, the fact that he beats them in a game called sc2 is enough for me.

if you are willing to change or reinterpret anything but the natural laws themself too not change the "korea > rest" idea, all power to you

Scarlett taking two maps of Serral was literally a 1 in 20 result. It's probably the only time Serral's been on match point all year. Wcs tournaments are easy for Serral. They'd be just easy for the top koreans as well (exampes being WeSG and Katowice). Don't make the mistake of cherry picking the results that favour your view and not looking at the tournaments as a whole.

You seem to think I'm trying to downplay Serral's skill, which isn't true. He's on the same level as top koerans. What I'm trying to say is that wcs events aren't much of a challenge for him, and the level of play in them isn't close to that of korean events. I couldn't care less if he farms 3, 4, or even 10 of them. It's like when SpeCial farms the latin american events, doesn't say anything about how he'll be in the global tournaments.

And btw, koreans like Polt and Hydra were not on the same level as those who dominated in korea like Maru or Dark either.


scarlett is also the last non-korean to bet him offline iirc

speaking of cherrypicking:
this works not only for players but for tournaments:

serrals looses vs classic in IEM -> shows that classic was to good
serral beats classic in WESG -> there wasn't enough on the line for classic, if he would played seriously bla bla...

serral wins 3 WCS in dominating fashion -> easy, every top korean can do taht (even though non ever done it)
maru wins 2 GSL -> amazing, nobody can come close to him, if serral was in korea he would not come close

serral comes to korea and beats a top player of every race -> meh, it wasn't a GSL so it doesn't count or sth about recent form of the players.

i just looked at the two GSLs maru won, and tbh he never hat to beat more than 2-3 "top" players (players like solar are surley not rated higher than polt for example).
I bet if serral would have won the exact same matches (which we now all no he can possibly) people would downplay that as well i'm sure.
if serral would win a blizzcon, IEM WC or a GSL, people would still pick the cherries there as well, and if he loses them, (which surley is the more likely event), it proves, that it was all hype ...

but as i already said:
some people will never change their opinion on something, no matter what happens, it's one of the banes of internet discussion



Now you're just spouting irrelevnt nonsense.

You completely missed the point I was making, which was that wcs wins are easy for Serral, and would be just as easy for any top korean (look at any wesg/katowice events if you don't believe me). You tried to argue that Scarlett taking two maps of him disproves this, which is a a perfect example of cherry picking because it's a 1/20 occurrence.

Then instead of answering, you just rant about excuses and make up a bunch of strawmans you think I've said (which I haven't) or would say in various situations? Good job.

Edit: you actually think that I would downplay Serral if he won two GSLs? Get a grip. GSL is the most competitive tournament in sc2. Serral hasn't done it yet, accept it instead of creating some stupid scenario where "even if he did you'd still make excuses".
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
ParksonVN
Profile Joined October 2015
Australia370 Posts
August 07 2018 14:13 GMT
#117
in which esport that winning one invitational tournament makes you the best player in the world ??? Hell no. Serral is on par with top Koreans, yes. But don't do stupid thing like saying he is the best in the world because he gotta do more to deserve that title.
JoFar
Profile Joined January 2017
31 Posts
August 07 2018 15:07 GMT
#118
GSL is the most competitive tournament in sc2.


It might be, but in the end, if you have one or two players who are simply better or at least have a big momentum ... i don't see a big difference. You can argue that there are a bunch of korean top players who are at a similar top level, and that was true for most of the earlier years and seasons ... but this year it's all about Maru regarding GSL, and you can argue that it is (or at least looks) similar easy for maru to win GSL(s) this year as it is for Serral to win WCS(s).
Does this mean GSL and WCS are easy tournaments? Or does it simply mean there are two players in both regions, who are - at least this year! - clearly better then their opponents?

As for GSL ... i don't think it is that much more competitive for ro32 or ro16 than WCS ... maybe after ro4, but before that ... i don't know Kev ...

Serral hasn't done it yet


And here is the point ... why SHOULD he?
He would have to leave his country, going for korea for several months ... maybe he just don't like that?
As far as i remember Maru for example doesn't like to travel either ... so where is the problem?

GSL is a good tournament with very good players, for sure ... but same goes for IEM, WESG and WCS events. And in the end you have things like GSL vs. the world or BlizzCon where you have potentially (i know, GSL v. the world isn't quite there because of the voting system there are also some weeker players in it) the best of all regions ... which is (at least for Blizzcon) far better then any WCS OR GSL Ro16.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-08-07 15:22:13
August 07 2018 15:19 GMT
#119
On August 08 2018 00:07 JoFar wrote:
Show nested quote +
GSL is the most competitive tournament in sc2.
As for GSL ... i don't think it is that much more competitive for ro32 or ro16 than WCS ... maybe after ro4, but before that ... i don't know Kev ...

It's not even close. Did you miss IEM katowice? When you put all the best wcs and gsl players in the same event, that's what happens. Serral was the only one competing. Same goes for WeSG, the three koreans and Serral were basically guaranteed to be the top 4.

Most WCS players other than Serral wouldn't be expected to get past ro16 in GSL, most don't make it past ro32. Has even lost in the GSL qualfiiers then made the finals at WCS a couple weeks later. Neeb lost in the qualifiers last year and then won WCS Montreal right after. SpeCial is arguably the second best foreigner of the year, and he's lost 4 times in the ro32 now.

On August 08 2018 00:07 JoFar wrote:
And here is the point ... why SHOULD he?
He would have to leave his country, going for korea for several months ... maybe he just don't like that?
As far as i remember Maru for example doesn't like to travel either ... so where is the problem?

Don't get me wrong, Serral has the right to do whatever he wants. But he hasn't won GSL, let alone twice in a row like Maru. The other guy couldn't seem to accept this and said crap like "well even if he did you'd make excuses", which isn't true. What Maru has done is amazing, it would be no different if Serral, or Leenock, or Classic, or whoever did it.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
D-light
Profile Joined April 2012
Finland7364 Posts
August 07 2018 16:58 GMT
#120
On August 07 2018 02:45 Marras wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2018 01:50 Zaros wrote:
On August 07 2018 01:39 ThunderJunk wrote:
Well, hasn't Serral been living and training in Korea for at least 4 months now?


No, he’s been there a couple of weeks before this event and went for a couple of months at the end of last year he mostly stays and plays in Finland


I don't think he even went there weeks before the event, Showtime did. As far as I know Serral just went there for the event and is already back in Finland now.

Yeah. A total of about a week this time, and the last time he went there was 10 months ago for three weeks.

On August 07 2018 03:49 thezanursic wrote:
Haven't been following Starcraft 2, a foreigner at the top of Alegulac winning Korean tournaments with a winrate of 80%.

This doesn't seem right...

And he was actually on top of aligulac from November to May already. After that Serral had to win 25 series straight to get the first place back.
why even
Prev 1 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
10:00
2025 GSL S1 - Playoffs
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
BRAT_OK 11
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 51684
Rain 6569
Calm 5683
Sea 2568
Horang2 1444
EffOrt 1044
actioN 285
Zeus 235
Barracks 129
Dewaltoss 126
[ Show more ]
Nal_rA 114
Rush 107
Mong 104
Leta 94
Killer 33
Terrorterran 24
Sexy 16
Shine 13
ivOry 4
Stormgate
RushiSC55
Dota 2
Gorgc10597
qojqva2330
Counter-Strike
markeloff805
ceh9464
edward59
kRYSTAL_52
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor208
Other Games
hiko961
FrodaN692
Mlord552
crisheroes352
Lowko147
ToD141
ArmadaUGS131
SortOf131
Mew2King109
QueenE85
Trikslyr63
MindelVK9
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 128
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix6
• blackmanpl 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV421
League of Legends
• Nemesis3984
• Jankos1368
Other Games
• Shiphtur1
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
7h 48m
OSC
7h 48m
Replay Cast
17h 48m
Road to EWC
22h 48m
Replay Cast
1d 17h
SC Evo League
1d 19h
Road to EWC
1d 22h
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
BeSt vs Soulkey
Road to EWC
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
[ Show More ]
SOOP
4 days
NightMare vs Wayne
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL Code S
5 days
Cure vs Zoun
Solar vs Creator
The PondCast
5 days
Online Event
5 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
GSL Code S
6 days
GuMiho vs Bunny
ByuN vs SHIN
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-16
2025 GSL S1
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Heroes 10 EU
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

Rose Open S1
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.