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I really hope Serral keeps this up, he's been making SC2 extra fun recently. Kind of tired of korean domination. With his mentality of thinking about the game, i hope he'll think about preparing for how everyone will be studying him.
If Serral keeps this up and eventually becomes the best player in the world (key word is if), do you think it'd have an affect on the popularity of the game/genre since it might garner more international attention? it feels like Korean domination, a high learning curve, and so many instant gratification dopamine games these days makes the appeal of SC2 weaker.
Since Blizzard split up the WCS system to make it more feasible for foreigners (assumption) making it more appealing to be an SC2 progamer, is Serral a prime example of this? Will he motivate and carry momentum for all other foreigners to compete at a higher level?
I'm just theory crafting and wondering if the game was dominated by foreigners, would it have more appeal to the rest of the world? Or, is it just something that's not as enjoyable as team play MOBA or plug and play FPS games.
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On August 07 2018 15:54 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2018 15:27 Miragee wrote:
So that's what an Ro16 GSL looks in 2018? 50% foreigners? Doesn't look like Korean domination to me at all, considering this tournament is held offline in Korea over a longer period (not just a weekend) so you have to live there. I haven't paid much attention to the SC2 scene over the past few years but this is pretty surprising considering everytime I read an SC2 there was a discussion about Koreans being to dominant etc. It's pretty much only Serral at this point, every single foreigner other than him is still getting murdered.
Well, other foreigners here won their series or made it a close call, no?
On August 07 2018 19:00 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2018 15:27 Miragee wrote:
So that's what an Ro16 GSL looks in 2018? 50% foreigners? Doesn't look like Korean domination to me at all, considering this tournament is held offline in Korea over a longer period (not just a weekend) so you have to live there. I haven't paid much attention to the SC2 scene over the past few years but this is pretty surprising considering everytime I read an SC2 there was a discussion about Koreans being to dominant etc. It’s 12.5% foreigners for this GSL in ro16
I'm counting 8 in the starting post?
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On August 08 2018 02:50 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2018 19:00 Zaros wrote:On August 07 2018 15:27 Miragee wrote:
So that's what an Ro16 GSL looks in 2018? 50% foreigners? Doesn't look like Korean domination to me at all, considering this tournament is held offline in Korea over a longer period (not just a weekend) so you have to live there. I haven't paid much attention to the SC2 scene over the past few years but this is pretty surprising considering everytime I read an SC2 there was a discussion about Koreans being to dominant etc. It’s 12.5% foreigners for this GSL in ro16 I'm counting 8 in the starting post?
This was an invitational / popular vote tourney, 8 from Korea and 8 from the rest of the world. No qualifiers as such.
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On August 08 2018 04:06 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 02:50 Miragee wrote:On August 07 2018 19:00 Zaros wrote:On August 07 2018 15:27 Miragee wrote:
So that's what an Ro16 GSL looks in 2018? 50% foreigners? Doesn't look like Korean domination to me at all, considering this tournament is held offline in Korea over a longer period (not just a weekend) so you have to live there. I haven't paid much attention to the SC2 scene over the past few years but this is pretty surprising considering everytime I read an SC2 there was a discussion about Koreans being to dominant etc. It’s 12.5% foreigners for this GSL in ro16 I'm counting 8 in the starting post? This was an invitational / popular vote tourney, 8 from Korea and 8 from the rest of the world. No qualifiers as such.
Oh, I thought this was a GSL. I should learn how to read...
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Serral could be the best player nowadays, or at least the best Zerg. It's not just his wins, but his gameplay when u watch it. It's really perfect play in every matchup. No Korean Zerg plays this flawlessly to be honest. If he wins Blizzcon, he will write history of this game with golden letters.
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Props to Serral. A definite career high point and milestone.
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Tier 1 for me right now is Maru/Rogue/Inno/Serral, and I'd knock Inno or even Rogue off of there before Serral right now. Absolute godhood. Never been more angry about region lock, there should be a middle ground between Serral not getting to play the foreign scene at all and only having/getting to face the top Koreans at GSL vs. World and Blizzcon.
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Never been more angry about region lock
Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock.
In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue.
Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event.
Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it.
And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ...
Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now.
Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that.
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On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that.
I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far.
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On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far.
To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective.
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On August 08 2018 17:05 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far. To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective.
I don't think that Blizzard has forced a drought onto the Korean scene though. Blizzard has been pumping in money in the Korean SC2 scene for the last two years, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like there are hardly anyone else contributing to it financially or in any other capacity these days. I mean, how many Korean SC2 teams exist today? Look at the Koreans participating in this tournament. 2 are on Jinair, 3 on foreign teams, and 3 without a team. How many Korean tournaments exist where Blizzard is not providing the cash for the price pool? How many Koreans are even watching SC2?
I don't follow BW myself, but I can see on TL's list of Live Streams that there is someone called Britney streaming with 6543 (!) viewers. Of course, as I wanted to check out the stream it shows two dudes eating, so maybe this is a combined cooking show plus BW... 
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/C0QdwWi.jpg)
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On August 08 2018 17:05 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far. To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective.
I'll be thrilled to hear how Blizzard "slowed Koreans' growth tremendously". Enlighten me.
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Terrific write-up. I haven't followed SC2 at all this year, couldn't pick Serral out of a lineup, but that synopsis had me hooked.
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On August 08 2018 17:38 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 17:05 Jealous wrote:On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far. To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective. I don't think that Blizzard has forced a drought onto the Korean scene though. Blizzard has been pumping in money in the Korean SC2 scene for the last two years, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like there are hardly anyone else contributing to it financially or in any other capacity these days. I mean, how many Korean SC2 teams exist today? Look at the Koreans participating in this tournament. 2 are on Jinair, 3 on foreign teams, and 3 without a team. How many Korean tournaments exist where Blizzard is not providing the cash for the price pool? How many Koreans are even watching SC2? I don't follow BW myself, but I can see on TL's list of Live Streams that there is someone called Britney streaming with 6543 (!) viewers. Of course, as I wanted to check out the stream it shows two dudes eating, so maybe this is a combined cooking show plus BW...
Britney is very much an entertainer that streams a lot of Broodwar (playing himself, organising tournaments, streaming other tournaments) but also does other...crazy stuff Koreans love to watch.
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On August 08 2018 17:38 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 17:05 Jealous wrote:On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far. To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective. I don't think that Blizzard has forced a drought onto the Korean scene though. Blizzard has been pumping in money in the Korean SC2 scene for the last two years, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like there are hardly anyone else contributing to it financially or in any other capacity these days. I mean, how many Korean SC2 teams exist today? Look at the Koreans participating in this tournament. 2 are on Jinair, 3 on foreign teams, and 3 without a team. How many Korean tournaments exist where Blizzard is not providing the cash for the price pool? How many Koreans are even watching SC2? I don't follow BW myself, but I can see on TL's list of Live Streams that there is someone called Britney streaming with 6543 (!) viewers. Of course, as I wanted to check out the stream it shows two dudes eating, so maybe this is a combined cooking show plus BW...
It doesn't help when you sign for a tournament and foreigner kicks you out of GSL. That's a closed season for you... think about this. And region lock is implemented by whom? Blizzard ;-)
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On August 09 2018 04:07 Miragee wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 17:38 BaneRiders wrote:On August 08 2018 17:05 Jealous wrote:On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far. To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective. I don't think that Blizzard has forced a drought onto the Korean scene though. Blizzard has been pumping in money in the Korean SC2 scene for the last two years, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like there are hardly anyone else contributing to it financially or in any other capacity these days. I mean, how many Korean SC2 teams exist today? Look at the Koreans participating in this tournament. 2 are on Jinair, 3 on foreign teams, and 3 without a team. How many Korean tournaments exist where Blizzard is not providing the cash for the price pool? How many Koreans are even watching SC2? I don't follow BW myself, but I can see on TL's list of Live Streams that there is someone called Britney streaming with 6543 (!) viewers. Of course, as I wanted to check out the stream it shows two dudes eating, so maybe this is a combined cooking show plus BW... Britney is very much an entertainer that streams a lot of Broodwar (playing himself, organising tournaments, streaming other tournaments) but also does other...crazy stuff Koreans love to watch.
Sounds like a cool guy. Blizzard should recruit him for SC2. 
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On August 09 2018 04:46 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 17:38 BaneRiders wrote:On August 08 2018 17:05 Jealous wrote:On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far. To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective. I don't think that Blizzard has forced a drought onto the Korean scene though. Blizzard has been pumping in money in the Korean SC2 scene for the last two years, and maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like there are hardly anyone else contributing to it financially or in any other capacity these days. I mean, how many Korean SC2 teams exist today? Look at the Koreans participating in this tournament. 2 are on Jinair, 3 on foreign teams, and 3 without a team. How many Korean tournaments exist where Blizzard is not providing the cash for the price pool? How many Koreans are even watching SC2? I don't follow BW myself, but I can see on TL's list of Live Streams that there is someone called Britney streaming with 6543 (!) viewers. Of course, as I wanted to check out the stream it shows two dudes eating, so maybe this is a combined cooking show plus BW... It doesn't help when you sign for a tournament and foreigner kicks you out of GSL. That's a closed season for you... think about this. And region lock is implemented by whom? Blizzard ;-)
That goes both ways though. I'd say True has won more bucks the last two years in WCS than the combined foreign forces in GSL (not to mention Hydra, Polt etc. competing in EU and NA before). And if you mean that it is closed season because there aren't any other tournaments in Korea, then that is hardly Blizzard's fault. People appears to be busy with BW or other games. If I were Blizzard, looking at the return on my investment, I'd seriously have to consider an immediate closure of sponsoring GSL for 2019 and shift the funds to have a fully global circuit, say 3-4 tourneys in EU (like Germany, Spain, Sweden and Poland or something), 3-4 in North America, 2 in South America and maybe 1 in Korea, China, Australia, and 1 somewhere in South-East Asia (if there is an interesting market there) respectively. 12 big tourneys spread over the year with a final.
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On August 08 2018 17:05 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2018 15:59 vyzion wrote:On August 08 2018 15:54 JoFar wrote:Never been more angry about region lock Well ... to be honest ... i don't think Serral would have improved like he had without region lock. In my opinion region lock was one of the best decisions blizzard ever made. Of course you can argue that it is unfair GSL hasn't a region lock and WCS circuit has ... but that is GSL's job to "repair" this issue. Without region lock there wouldn't be any real reason for foreigners to try, that's just a fact. Look before the region lock ... most of the times only one or two foreigners made it to a Ro8 of a WCS event. Yeah, koreans have been much better ... big part of that was that they had the much better infrastructure. (state sponsored) KESPA systems with all the teams ... the amount of money players got just for being in such a team, team houses, trainers etc. ... that all was something every non-korean SC player could only dream about. Of course koreans trained more and harder ... but part of the truth is also that they could do and afford that and make a living of it. And for what? Market and viewerships for starcraft 2 in south korea had been decreasing anyways ... Of course it has decreased worldwide also, but right now, as quality of games and tournaments in WCS are getting better and better, it's back increasing, as could be seen clearly in the last WCS stop at Valencia. Foreigner players now can make a living out of it, if they train hard und get to the top. And even the gap between foreigners and korean players is closing ... maybe just slowly, cause korean pro's were simply miles ahead and of course they still improve, too ... but same goes for foreigners now. Anyways, i think Starcraft and the tournament scene is in great shape right now. And big part of that is the region lock. Whatever blizzard may plan for 2019 and later, i just hope they won't change that. I completely agree and I consider region lock a success thus far. To be fair if your measure of success is toppling Goliath by giving him a terminal disease before David was even old enough to sling a stone, then all I can say is that we have different measures of success. I think that if there was no prejudiced system that drained the Korean scene and gave artificial lifeblood to the foreign scene, Koreans would never have lost to foreigners on a stage as big as this one. It's not just that the foreign community was incentivized, it's also that the Korean community was forced to downsize and re-prioritize. In short, I think that the gap has shrunk not only due to the efforts and benefits garnered by foreigners, but also because of the drought that Blizzard forced onto the Korean scene. Foreigners didn't simply rise to the level of Koreans, Koreans' growth had slowed tremendously while foreigners reaped the benefits of greater incentives. Maybe it was the "right" call, but I think it heavily depends on your perspective.
I understand your perspective and looking at it from that lens, I agree. Considering my perspective with regards to your perspective, then I'd say that Blizz has had short-term wins in artificially (or organically?) increasing interest internationally at the cost of downsizing/re-prioritizing the goliath korean scene. So, from here on out is we have to wait and see how blizz plans on building them both up together. I'm no Blizzard employee but I'm going to go ahead and assume that Blizzard took a calculated risk to get to this point and has some sort of plan (i hope?!).
Region lock may or may not work out long-term, but this is a business and their goal is to make money above all else, period. I support the risk and the decision for region lock, hoping for long-term success. This also means I'm okay with the scene ultimately becoming a crumbling mess. 2 steps forwards 1 step back, perhaps?
Due to the short-term success (internationally at least), I am looking forward to see blizz's next step.
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It was more Stats playing weird (His multitasking was awefull) than Serral winning but... That wasn't the case against inno and dark.
Serral played really well in those matches.
Now foreigners still are not on the level of korea. Serral is. Like Naniwa before him, Scarlett at some point or iDra. But that's it for now.
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On August 10 2018 15:34 FFW_Rude wrote:
It was more Stats playing weird (His multitasking was awefull) than Serral winning but... That wasn't the case against inno and dark.
Serral played really well in those matches.
Now foreigners still are not on the level of korea. Serral is. Like Naniwa before him, Scarlett at some point or iDra. But that's it for now.
Yep. It's statements like these that divide the community and induce anger in people. Sigh.
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WCS
