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On March 31 2018 03:14 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2018 02:42 Jealous wrote:On March 30 2018 18:38 Geo.Rion wrote:On March 30 2018 17:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 30 2018 17:42 Waxangel wrote:On March 30 2018 17:25 Charoisaur wrote:On March 30 2018 16:41 Geo.Rion wrote:
what Blizzard is doing is unfair, obviously, yet it s the right thing to do from a competition standpoint. If the Koreans were allowed to participate as "foreigners" in the foreign tourneys instead of the specific Korean spots (without and hindrance), then they would obviously do it.
Net viewership of the tournaments are higher this way.
If they would ban all foreigners from GSL that would be bead for the scene, and if they would let anyone participate anywhere, then foreigners would barely stand a chance to hit ro16/ ro8. The non-korean viewership is just way bigger than the Korean.
So yeah, i really hope Blizz doesnt break under the pressure, and take this blow-back and move one. People on forums tend to be really vocal about doing the right thing, and being fair, but it s actually a very small minority of the base who genuinely wants to see all Korean ro8 in every single LAN.
As for True, he knowingly chose this path, and i would say it worked out for him financially so far. Is it worth it having a blatantly unfair system for the sake of viewership? Here's a hypothetical question. If the benefits of region lock (let's just assume it's a net-benefit to StarCraft II for the sake of this question) allow Blizzard to continue the current level of support of SC2 esports for two more years, is it worth the unfairness to Koreans? I don't want the scene to exist on the basis of unfairness/discrimination. Would make me ashamed to be an SC2 esport fan Well, is affirmative action discrimination? Abso-fucking-lutely. There are lots of ways in which it is "justified" and whether you buy those reasons or not is your own personal opinion and there is no point in arguing about it, but the fact remains that it is the very definition of discrimination. Are you guys serious right now? Besides the fact that jumping into an affirmative action discussion is DEFINITELY going to get this thread closed, this isn't even remotely a comparable thing at all. Affirmative action is an attempt to counter the people that would normally be biased in their hiring due to racist stereotypes. It's a response TO racism, not racism itself. Regionlocking is the exact opposite. No regionlocking means everything is open to everyone, regionlocking is prohibitive to people based on things that have nothing to do with their ability in the game. They are literally EXACT opposites of each other.
maybe we dont mean exactly the same by that expression. I wasnt referring to the "countering racism" aspect rather than beside ensuring equality of opportunity, applying some rules or quotas with which one tries to reach a specific result, say at least one foreigner in top 8/top4 etc.. I admit it s not a term much used in my region/language, so I can accept the idea that i might have used it incorrectly, tho i do not think so
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TRUE chose GSL, but if he leaves Korea after the Ro32 he can still play in the open bracket of WCS Austin.
Blizzard will also be reviewing region-lock for 2019:
"We are aware that, especially in 2018, there have been some unintended consequences stemming from WCS residency rules, and we will be reviewing them to see what will work best for 2019."
Source: https://wcs.starcraft2.com/en-us/news/21676853/TRUE-Chooses-GSL-over-Challenger-/
Edit: Added to OP
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Ah well, at least they are going to be reviewing things. I wonder if they would've reviewed things for this year if TRUE had made it through the qualifiers last year.
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United States33713 Posts
Sooo the angry mob won? Do we pop champagne and celebrate?
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On March 31 2018 12:56 Waxangel wrote:
Sooo the angry mob won? Do we pop champagne and celebrate?
yes yes the mob will replace its pitchforks and torches with Champagne and Champagne Glasses
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I think we store the pitchforks until next year when we don't like the new region lock system.
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Tbh I'm surprised Blizzard even listened to the mob. Obviously region-lock is still a thing in the foreseeable future, and I have my doubts about their promised review, but I am still surprised that they even bothered to throw a bone to the mob.
People have been complaining about region-lock for years and Blizzard has barely said a word. Maybe this is a good sign?
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On March 31 2018 12:56 Waxangel wrote:
Sooo the angry mob won? Do we pop champagne and celebrate?
I did that already since Ret is coming back to sc2, but regarding this topic I would wait until after the review of the residency rules.
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Lol at people making racist accusations. If blizzard was racist against Koreans they wouldn't even sponsor GSL, let alone let MaSa and TRUE play in WCS, not to mention all the other east asians from China Taiwan Japan etc have no problem playing in WCS (or double dipping in GSL)
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On March 31 2018 12:56 Waxangel wrote:
Do we pop champagne and celebrate?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QMis6hU.gif)
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lol people really can come up with all sorts of justifications for region lock. I can understand if you say it was a wrong thing that had to be done. It's another trying to justify it and think it should continue existing.
Angry mob? Condescending much? Disappointing mob, get off the horses. Or press more ban/warn buttons.
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On April 01 2018 06:02 yangluphil wrote:
lol people really can come up with all sorts of justifications for region lock. I can understand if you say it was a wrong thing that had to be done. It's another trying to justify it and think it should continue existing.
Angry mob? Condescending much? Disappointing mob, get off the horses. Or press more ban/warn buttons.
It depends on your point of view. I'm interested in the survival of the entire Starcraft 2 scene, and so I believe that region lock was the right thing that needed to happen.
I don't think that region lock is an entirely good thing or an entirely bad thing either, and I would disagree with people who say that it is one or the other.
And for a while, it worked fine as foreigners didn't make it in the Korean tournaments, and of course, Koreans couldn't participate in WCS. Because of how Korea runs their tournaments, they essentially have a soft regionlock on their tournaments, and you didn't see many foreigners living in Korea and trying out. But now, because of shrinkage as well as the foreign scene having definitely improved, this form of region lock no longer works.
Removing the region lock is an acknowledgement that the Korean scene is equivalent or near equivalent to the other regions, but this is not the case at all. The very fact that people come and train in Korea proves that the region is stronger. Therefore, the regions cannot be treated equally.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On April 01 2018 06:51 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2018 06:02 yangluphil wrote:
lol people really can come up with all sorts of justifications for region lock. I can understand if you say it was a wrong thing that had to be done. It's another trying to justify it and think it should continue existing.
Angry mob? Condescending much? Disappointing mob, get off the horses. Or press more ban/warn buttons. It depends on your point of view. I'm interested in the survival of the entire Starcraft 2 scene, and so I believe that region lock was the right thing that needed to happen. I don't think that region lock is an entirely good thing or an entirely bad thing either, and I would disagree with people who say that it is one or the other. And for a while, it worked fine as foreigners didn't make it in the Korean tournaments, and of course, Koreans couldn't participate in WCS. Because of how Korea runs their tournaments, they essentially have a soft regionlock on their tournaments, and you didn't see many foreigners living in Korea and trying out. But now, because of shrinkage as well as the foreign scene having definitely improved, this form of region lock no longer works. Removing the region lock is an acknowledgement that the Korean scene is equivalent or near equivalent to the other regions, but this is not the case at all. The very fact that people come and train in Korea proves that the region is stronger. Therefore, the regions cannot be treated equally.
Yeah, but new and lower tier players don't have much sources of income compared to foreigners with their WCS. So taking money of THESE players is wrong as it hurts Korean scene in the long term. Sure, nowadays we still have the old guard, but there's the threat of the military service over every head and it's getting bigger each year.
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On April 01 2018 06:58 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 01 2018 06:51 FrkFrJss wrote:On April 01 2018 06:02 yangluphil wrote:
lol people really can come up with all sorts of justifications for region lock. I can understand if you say it was a wrong thing that had to be done. It's another trying to justify it and think it should continue existing.
Angry mob? Condescending much? Disappointing mob, get off the horses. Or press more ban/warn buttons. It depends on your point of view. I'm interested in the survival of the entire Starcraft 2 scene, and so I believe that region lock was the right thing that needed to happen. I don't think that region lock is an entirely good thing or an entirely bad thing either, and I would disagree with people who say that it is one or the other. And for a while, it worked fine as foreigners didn't make it in the Korean tournaments, and of course, Koreans couldn't participate in WCS. Because of how Korea runs their tournaments, they essentially have a soft regionlock on their tournaments, and you didn't see many foreigners living in Korea and trying out. But now, because of shrinkage as well as the foreign scene having definitely improved, this form of region lock no longer works. Removing the region lock is an acknowledgement that the Korean scene is equivalent or near equivalent to the other regions, but this is not the case at all. The very fact that people come and train in Korea proves that the region is stronger. Therefore, the regions cannot be treated equally. Yeah, but new and lower tier players don't have much sources of income compared to foreigners with their WCS. So taking money of THESE players is wrong as it hurts Korean scene in the long term. Sure, nowadays we still have the old guard, but there's the threat of the military service over every head and it's getting bigger each year.
I totally agree, and that's why we need tiered region lock now. Based on the number of points you earned in a previous season, you either can or cannot play in WCS or GSL or both. Keep the point threshold low enough in Korea that a good Korean doesn't dominate in WCS but high enough that the Koreans who need that money can play in WCS.
Same with WCS. We don't need Neeb to brutalize Code A Koreans to show how good he is. However, players like Zanster are like ro32/ro16 WCS, and so letting him compete is not that bad.
EDIT: and if we're worried about players not living in the WCS regions and contributing to the scene, say that they have need to live in the region they're playing in but with fewer visa restrictions (so like a visitor's visa) and perhaps help establish a team home in the US or EU so that Koreans can live in the region that they're competing.
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On March 31 2018 13:55 pvsnp wrote:
Tbh I'm surprised Blizzard even listened to the mob. Obviously region-lock is still a thing in the foreseeable future, and I have my doubts about their promised review, but I am still surprised that they even bothered to throw a bone to the mob.
People have been complaining about region-lock for years and Blizzard has barely said a word. Maybe this is a good sign?
One of the worst thing you can do as a gaming company is not listen to your players. You can see how it went real bad with EA losing billions of dollars in it's shares.
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On April 01 2018 19:51 ChemcalTribe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2018 13:55 pvsnp wrote:
Tbh I'm surprised Blizzard even listened to the mob. Obviously region-lock is still a thing in the foreseeable future, and I have my doubts about their promised review, but I am still surprised that they even bothered to throw a bone to the mob.
People have been complaining about region-lock for years and Blizzard has barely said a word. Maybe this is a good sign? One of the worst thing you can do as a gaming company is not listen to your players. You can see how it went real bad with EA losing billions of dollars in it's shares.
what did EA ?
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On April 01 2018 19:51 ChemcalTribe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2018 13:55 pvsnp wrote:
Tbh I'm surprised Blizzard even listened to the mob. Obviously region-lock is still a thing in the foreseeable future, and I have my doubts about their promised review, but I am still surprised that they even bothered to throw a bone to the mob.
People have been complaining about region-lock for years and Blizzard has barely said a word. Maybe this is a good sign? One of the worst thing you can do as a gaming company is not listen to your players. You can see how it went real bad with EA losing billions of dollars in it's shares.
If you're talking about the November dip, it doesn't look like it hurt them in the long run.
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User was warned for this post
Huh?
Sucks for TRUE. I was looking forward to seeing him in both.
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On April 01 2018 19:51 ChemcalTribe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2018 13:55 pvsnp wrote:
Tbh I'm surprised Blizzard even listened to the mob. Obviously region-lock is still a thing in the foreseeable future, and I have my doubts about their promised review, but I am still surprised that they even bothered to throw a bone to the mob.
People have been complaining about region-lock for years and Blizzard has barely said a word. Maybe this is a good sign? One of the worst thing you can do as a gaming company is not listen to your players. You can see how it went real bad with EA losing billions of dollars in it's shares.
Stock prices going down in the short term has no real effect on a company. Stockholders will put pressure on the company to improve, but the company does not actually lose money when this happens.
In any case, I expect there will be a number of changes for next year as the Korean scene slowly declines. Since it looks like SSL is gone, I hope Blizzard tries to supplement the scene somehow.
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The solution to region locking is simple. Make it so only Korean Terrans cannot play WCS and foreign Zergs cannot play in GSL.
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EPT
