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Matroid_Prime
Canada59 Posts
People have pretty short term memory but the Koreans pretty much destroyed WCS AM for a period. Look at this rubbish below!! North America 2013 WCS S1 - Final 8: HerO, Alicia, mOOnGLaDe, Ryung, CranK, aLive, Revival, Snute 2014 WCS S1 - Final 8 : Alicia, Bomber, Taeja, Hyun, Polt, Revival, Oz, Arthur 2014 WCS S2 - Final 8 : Heart, viOLet, Alicia, Bomber, Polt, HyuN, Taeja, Pigbaby 2014 WCS S3 - Final 8: Scarlett, Heart, HyuN, HuK, Bomber, Pigbaby, Polt, HerO (no NA players in Ro4) | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 30 2018 05:45 FrkFrJss wrote: There is some similarity, but all foreigners except Scarlett in recent years have ben stopped at the ro32. In WCS EU/AM, there were consistently around 6/8 or 5/8 foreigners Koreans in WCS EU and 7/8 to 8/8 Koreans in WCS AM. To say that the two situations are the same is not really accurate. One the one hand, you have the Koreans taking an large portion of the WCS EU/AM prize pool for 6 competitions, and on the other hand, you have a couple of foreigners having no success for three years and taking a small portion of the overall prize pool and then Scarlett's success in the ro8. To deny the difference between the two situations is wrong, but to say that the situations are exactly the same is also quite wrong. The only difference in what you said is that Koreans are better--and being persecuted just for being better is exactly what a lot of people are pissed about. And TRUE isn't even better, he's just persecuted. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On March 30 2018 05:40 deacon.frost wrote: Yes, and currently foreigners are killing the Korean scene. KeSPA teams are no more, only the last man standing are JAGW. Players have to win GSL for money. Low tier players are robbed by foreigner hopes. It seems only fair to either disband the region lock for all OR lock the players OR lock the GSL. This way all the foreign hopes cannot live in Korea and travel into WCS EXACTLY AS YOU DESCRIBED. How exactly are foreigners killing the Korean scene? KeSPA dropped SC2 before any foreigners qualified for Code S, and there was a distinct lack of Koreans retiring over the offseason, like we have seen in years past. New talent like Dandy and eMotion are coming into the scene despite the foreigners "stealing their money", upseating old favorites like herO, and players like MMA, SuperNova, and PartinG are coming back. If anything, the Korean scene has gotten healthier since foreigners arrived. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
You made a point pvsnp ! | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
Remember that Scarlett didn't even qualify for IEM Pyeongchang, but WCS bent the rules to allow him and Special to go? That shows that rules aren't made to screw people like TRUE over. They're made to bring light to common sense. Use common sense. Let <foreigner> TRUE advance in GSL, until he crashes. Then, let <foreigner> TRUE do the rest of the WCS stuff Special and Scarlett also do. Stop jingoism. Also: You don't EVER enforce rules post-facto. EVER. That's not the spirit of civilization. User was warned for this post | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
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KappaKingPrime
United States468 Posts
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ryuhayabusa69
3 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On March 30 2018 05:48 pvsnp wrote: The only difference in what you said is that Koreans are better--and being persecuted just for being better is exactly what a lot of people are pissed about. And TRUE isn't even better, he's just persecuted. If they are better, then the region lock is necessary for the health of the scene. But being better is a very big and very legitimate reason for separating the regions. It just happens that the regions separated are Korean. If there was another nation equally as good as Korea, then that region would be separated. This brings in what I've been saying, separate the players ability to play cross region based on skill. The Neebs and Scarletts wouldn't be able to play in GSL, but the Marus and Stats wouldn't be able to play in WCS. I agree about TRUE, that that he should be allowed to play. | ||
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Carminedust
487 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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engesser1
264 Posts
I'll never been watch WCS again. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 30 2018 09:43 FrkFrJss wrote: If they are better, then the region lock is necessary for the health of the scene. But being better is a very big and very legitimate reason for separating the regions. It just happens that the regions separated are Korean. If there was another nation equally as good as Korea, then that region would be separated. This brings in what I've been saying, separate the players ability to play cross region based on skill. The Neebs and Scarletts wouldn't be able to play in GSL, but the Marus and Stats wouldn't be able to play in WCS. I agree about TRUE, that that he should be allowed to play. So the better you are, the less freedom you should have. Since it's hard to quantify 'goodness' in a policy, blizz chose to discriminate the nation rather than discriminate the good. Being good is evil since if you are too good, you win too much. If you win too much, you destroy the scene by destroying the weak. To keep region lock in place and WCS prize pool all for themselves, foreigners must take care not to become good enough to compete with the koreans. For the weak is rewarded and the good is punished. Quite the spirit for a competitive sport. I hope one day when Serral becomes a global juggernaut, Blizzard remembers to isolate Finland and allow him to dominate the local tournaments only. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On March 30 2018 12:09 yangluphil wrote: With great power comes great responsibility. Being good is good, but when you use that good, whether intentional or unintentionally, to bring harm, then you need to be put in check. So the better you are, the less freedom you should have. Since it's hard to quantify 'goodness' in a policy, blizz chose to discriminate the nation rather than discriminate the good. Being good is evil since if you are too good, you win too much. If you win too much, you destroy the scene by destroying the weak. To keep region lock in place and WCS prize pool all for themselves, foreigners must take care not to become good enough to compete with the koreans. For the weak is rewarded and the good is punished. Quite the spirit for a competitive sport. I hope one day when Serral becomes a global juggernaut, Blizzard remembers to isolate Finland and allow him to dominate the local tournaments only. Is it truly good if only you and a select few others benefit? In this case, it is necessary that the needs of the overall scene outweigh the need of the fewer in order that full region lock be not a permanent solution. If Canadians dominated everyone to the point of hurting the scene, I would advocate for locking them out of a certain number of numbers. It is not that the weak are being rewarded for being but that without this help, only a few could escape being weak, and the overall system would fall. And because the Korean system is held up by the foreign scene, the collapse of the foreign scene would bring the collapse of the Korean scene. | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On March 30 2018 12:09 yangluphil wrote:So the better you are, the less freedom you should have. Since it's hard to quantify 'goodness' in a policy, blizz chose to discriminate the nation rather than discriminate the good. Being good is evil since if you are too good, you win too much. If you win too much, you destroy the scene by destroying the weak. To keep region lock in place and WCS prize pool all for themselves, foreigners must take care not to become good enough to compete with the koreans. For the weak is rewarded and the good is punished. Quite the spirit for a competitive sport. I hope one day when Serral becomes a global juggernaut, Blizzard remembers to isolate Finland and allow him to dominate the local tournaments only. Let's compare this to the structure of most Olympic sports. Every Olympic event is region-locked by country. Countries that may not have any chance of winning still are given opportunities. The reason is they want to foster and promote sports in every country, by giving people in every country something achievable they can aspire to so that maybe someday they will be more competitive. How popular do you think the Olympics would be if 80% of athletes were all from one country? Blizzard made a big mistake, yes. But the mistake was they made the region lock one sided, not that the region lock exists. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16118 Posts
On March 30 2018 14:22 Kalera wrote: Let's compare this to the structure of most Olympic sports. Every Olympic event is region-locked by country. Countries that may not have any chance of winning still are given opportunities. The reason is they want to foster and promote sports in every country, by giving people in every country something achievable they can aspire to so that maybe someday they will be more competitive. How popular do you think the Olympics would be if 80% of athletes were all from one country? Blizzard made a big mistake, yes. But the mistake was they made the region lock one sided, not that the region lock exists. The olympics are once every 4 years and are designed to be a representative event for EVERY sport in the world at the same time. NHL, NBA all major Soccer and Baseball leagues all of the Tennis tournaments, all of the Golf Tournaments, ALL of the major fighting and boxing sports. NONE OF THOSE are region locked. If you want to cherry pick JUST the olympics to make your point then your argument is weak. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 30 2018 16:03 Vindicare605 wrote: The olympics are once every 4 years and are designed to be a representative event for EVERY sport in the world at the same time. NHL, NBA all major Soccer and Baseball leagues all of the Tennis tournaments, all of the Golf Tournaments, ALL of the major fighting and boxing sports. NONE OF THOSE are region locked. If you want to cherry pick JUST the olympics to make your point then your argument is weak. Those analogies are just as false though. Most established sports have lower leagues that are effectively region locked to foster local growth, whereas Starcraft doesn't have that sort of depth to the scene. | ||
BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50625 Posts
On March 30 2018 12:08 engesser1 wrote: Stop warning/banning people. Sick and tired of Blizzard. Greedy corp. Double standards. I'll never been watch WCS again. if you have an issue with moderation in this thread then please direct it to website feeback | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17255 Posts
Blizzard is not very good at running and administrating organized competitive leagues. They never have been very good at it. This is another symptom of their mediocre performance as Competitive League Admins. On March 30 2018 16:03 Vindicare605 wrote: NHL, NBA all major Soccer and Baseball leagues all of the Tennis tournaments, all of the Golf Tournaments, ALL of the major fighting and boxing sports. NONE OF THOSE are region locked. If you want to cherry pick JUST the olympics to make your point then your argument is weak. Until 1989 the NBA, NHL, and MLB never had Russians and other Soviet-bloc nationals in it. The Canadian Football League only permits so many non-Canadians on a team's roster. German hockey leagues only permit a certain # of foreign players per team. Pretty sure Israeli basketball and other European basketball leagues have rules about how many non-natives can be on a roster. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
Net viewership of the tournaments are higher this way. If they would ban all foreigners from GSL that would be bead for the scene, and if they would let anyone participate anywhere, then foreigners would barely stand a chance to hit ro16/ ro8. The non-korean viewership is just way bigger than the Korean. So yeah, i really hope Blizz doesnt break under the pressure, and take this blow-back and move one. People on forums tend to be really vocal about doing the right thing, and being fair, but it s actually a very small minority of the base who genuinely wants to see all Korean ro8 in every single LAN. As for True, he knowingly chose this path, and i would say it worked out for him financially so far. | ||
Waxangel
United States33552 Posts
we did it, mob! high fives all around  | ||
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