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On January 24 2018 07:36 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 07:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 03:39 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 03:09 Freeborn wrote:On January 24 2018 02:47 Elentos wrote:On January 24 2018 02:27 Freeborn wrote:
Does anyone have any examples of progames where the stalkers are too strong? Or where protosses defeat good terran players easily?
I'm pretty sure this stalker nerf is hyped by terran whining again. Terran is not underperforming as far as I can tell.
It rather looks like terran is still a bit too strong versus zerg and zerg is now very strong versus protoss.
While terrans can still win with pure bio mine and drops versus protoss without even using ravens or ghosts... It's not stalkers in a vacuum, it's a combination of buffed stalkers, buffed chargelots, nerfed mine drops etc. Even just the overall match-up winrates aside, the top Terrans themselves all have poor winrates against Protoss on the new patch in tournament matches. The Korean TvP meta at the moment involves lots of 2-base all-ins. Definite Examples and sources please? PvT is currently at 59% http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1For specific games, check any one of these: Classic v TThen compare the PvT winrates for top Protoss players (Classic, Stats, herO, etc) and TvP winrates for top Terrans (Inno, Maru, TY, etc). The Protoss players all have ~20% higher winrates on average. lul, buddy linking a aligulac period that is only a week in. a few weeks ago I saw it was like 57%, then evened out to 51%, haha. looking at past ones we have 51%, 52%, 52% ... If you want a more detailed collection of stats: PvT for Nov/Dec was at 53%. You left out the first December period at 55%, and before that was 56%. Summing the last and current period (January games till now) gives us 363/667 games, or 54%. Currently, of course, PvT is at 59%. PvT for top pros (games and series):
Stats: 81% and 92% Classic: 80% and 90% herO: 78% and 88% sOs: 75% and 83% Zest: 70% and 77% TvP for top pros (games and series):
aLive: 57% and 66% Inno: 56% and 61% Maru: 52% and 61% Gumiho: 50% and 51% TY: 27% and 18% Obviously, this data is not perfect. If PvT was balanced we would expect some players to have advantages and others disadvantages. We would expect statistical noise randomly in favor of Protoss or Terran. A single top Protoss doing well or a single period favoring Protoss is perfectly normal for a balanced matchup. But when all the periods, all the pros, and all the data are pointing towards Protoss > Terran across the board, as they are right now, that's an indication that something is wrong with the matchup.
no, you're being biased.
LMFAO how can you put up """""""""stats"""""""" like "vs top pros or series" when for example, stats has an 85.71% winrate with only 14 games played. LMFAO, 14 games confirmed proper statistics to use in an arguement.
These six series where he played bunny, keen, and cure? lmfao.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 24 2018 09:32 youngjiddle wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 07:36 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 03:39 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 03:09 Freeborn wrote:On January 24 2018 02:47 Elentos wrote:On January 24 2018 02:27 Freeborn wrote:
Does anyone have any examples of progames where the stalkers are too strong? Or where protosses defeat good terran players easily?
I'm pretty sure this stalker nerf is hyped by terran whining again. Terran is not underperforming as far as I can tell.
It rather looks like terran is still a bit too strong versus zerg and zerg is now very strong versus protoss.
While terrans can still win with pure bio mine and drops versus protoss without even using ravens or ghosts... It's not stalkers in a vacuum, it's a combination of buffed stalkers, buffed chargelots, nerfed mine drops etc. Even just the overall match-up winrates aside, the top Terrans themselves all have poor winrates against Protoss on the new patch in tournament matches. The Korean TvP meta at the moment involves lots of 2-base all-ins. Definite Examples and sources please? PvT is currently at 59% http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1For specific games, check any one of these: Classic v TThen compare the PvT winrates for top Protoss players (Classic, Stats, herO, etc) and TvP winrates for top Terrans (Inno, Maru, TY, etc). The Protoss players all have ~20% higher winrates on average. lul, buddy linking a aligulac period that is only a week in. a few weeks ago I saw it was like 57%, then evened out to 51%, haha. looking at past ones we have 51%, 52%, 52% ... If you want a more detailed collection of stats: PvT for Nov/Dec was at 53%. You left out the first December period at 55%, and before that was 56%. Summing the last and current period (January games till now) gives us 363/667 games, or 54%. Currently, of course, PvT is at 59%. PvT for top pros (games and series):
Stats: 81% and 92% Classic: 80% and 90% herO: 78% and 88% sOs: 75% and 83% Zest: 70% and 77% TvP for top pros (games and series):
aLive: 57% and 66% Inno: 56% and 61% Maru: 52% and 61% Gumiho: 50% and 51% TY: 27% and 18% Obviously, this data is not perfect. If PvT was balanced we would expect some players to have advantages and others disadvantages. We would expect statistical noise randomly in favor of Protoss or Terran. A single top Protoss doing well or a single period favoring Protoss is perfectly normal for a balanced matchup. But when all the periods, all the pros, and all the data are pointing towards Protoss > Terran across the board, as they are right now, that's an indication that something is wrong with the matchup. no, you're being biased. LMFAO how can you put up """""""""stats"""""""" like "vs top pros or series" when for example, stats has an 85.71% winrate with only 14 games played. LMFAO, 14 games confirmed proper statistics to use in an arguement. These six series where he played bunny, keen, and cure? lmfao.
Ah, it's youngjiddle again isn't it?
Checks name
Yep, thought so. No point in discussing anything here then. Hope you enjoy the stalker nerf.
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On January 24 2018 10:47 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 09:32 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 07:36 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 03:39 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 03:09 Freeborn wrote:On January 24 2018 02:47 Elentos wrote:On January 24 2018 02:27 Freeborn wrote:
Does anyone have any examples of progames where the stalkers are too strong? Or where protosses defeat good terran players easily?
I'm pretty sure this stalker nerf is hyped by terran whining again. Terran is not underperforming as far as I can tell.
It rather looks like terran is still a bit too strong versus zerg and zerg is now very strong versus protoss.
While terrans can still win with pure bio mine and drops versus protoss without even using ravens or ghosts... It's not stalkers in a vacuum, it's a combination of buffed stalkers, buffed chargelots, nerfed mine drops etc. Even just the overall match-up winrates aside, the top Terrans themselves all have poor winrates against Protoss on the new patch in tournament matches. The Korean TvP meta at the moment involves lots of 2-base all-ins. Definite Examples and sources please? PvT is currently at 59% http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1For specific games, check any one of these: Classic v TThen compare the PvT winrates for top Protoss players (Classic, Stats, herO, etc) and TvP winrates for top Terrans (Inno, Maru, TY, etc). The Protoss players all have ~20% higher winrates on average. lul, buddy linking a aligulac period that is only a week in. a few weeks ago I saw it was like 57%, then evened out to 51%, haha. looking at past ones we have 51%, 52%, 52% ... If you want a more detailed collection of stats: PvT for Nov/Dec was at 53%. You left out the first December period at 55%, and before that was 56%. Summing the last and current period (January games till now) gives us 363/667 games, or 54%. Currently, of course, PvT is at 59%. PvT for top pros (games and series):
Stats: 81% and 92% Classic: 80% and 90% herO: 78% and 88% sOs: 75% and 83% Zest: 70% and 77% TvP for top pros (games and series):
aLive: 57% and 66% Inno: 56% and 61% Maru: 52% and 61% Gumiho: 50% and 51% TY: 27% and 18% Obviously, this data is not perfect. If PvT was balanced we would expect some players to have advantages and others disadvantages. We would expect statistical noise randomly in favor of Protoss or Terran. A single top Protoss doing well or a single period favoring Protoss is perfectly normal for a balanced matchup. But when all the periods, all the pros, and all the data are pointing towards Protoss > Terran across the board, as they are right now, that's an indication that something is wrong with the matchup. no, you're being biased. LMFAO how can you put up """""""""stats"""""""" like "vs top pros or series" when for example, stats has an 85.71% winrate with only 14 games played. LMFAO, 14 games confirmed proper statistics to use in an arguement. These six series where he played bunny, keen, and cure? lmfao. Ah, it's youngjiddle again isn't it? Checks nameYep, thought so. No point in discussing anything here then. Hope you enjoy the stalker nerf.
Don't know where you are getting your numbers from besides cherrypicking, cause just looking at INnovation alone, hes at 65% WR vP -
http://aligulac.com/players/48-INnoVation/
If you go just from Dec 2017, hes at 59% http://aligulac.com/players/48/results/?after=2017-12-01&before=&event=&race=p&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=
TY had similar winrates when i checked earlier today. Basically, all it proves is that Classic is on fire right now (take Classic away, and Innovation is over 90% WR!), and all top terrans still beat protoss pretty handily.
Take away Neeb in smaller tournaments from aligac and see Protoss winrates drop to under 50% vT. You can't seriously use this as the source for your balance whine?
Terran has been the dominate race for 7 years now, it was nice to have a patch that was getting closer to being fair.. but 3 weeks of "slightly" favorable protoss results end up with the terran crybabies threatening to quit the game and pestering blizzard to make changes already.. yet when Protoss was 42% WR vs Terran last year, blizzard said "We'll wait 6 months to see how the balance plays out".. this game's bias is LOL-worthy.
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On January 24 2018 03:23 washikie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 22:39 Marvel1 wrote:
Why does P have 0.7 cd on micro intensive drops while Z can queue 4 overlords with banes and attack with his army and you are literally unable to defend your probes. I cannot comprehend mates Because you have almost zero time to react to disruptor drops targeting your army as Terran, you can at least see bane drops coming on the mini map and have time to pull probes/ reposition units. Disruptor drops can drop the disruptor out of vision range and kill 15+ supply of Terran bio units with Terran having only a second to react or lose a huge chunk of units. Bane dropes can't be used to do constant effecient trades with your opponents army.
Yeah, they will blow up AT LEAST one of your bases from probes, and thats even better than trading armies, you will pull maybe 1 base of probes, messy, when you are facing 3 queued drops and a push of an z army, trust me, do you even read man, and to hell with good trading if you cant back it up economically. 15+ supply of terran bio units? like 35? more like 3 marines and a marauder and only if he dont react, its a nova not a nuke, you can split your army if you know what P is doing but you are too slow to run around everytime, Koreans are getting ripped by mass bane drops mid-late game almost always, and still the cost of teching dis prism is so high that this isnt even that hurting for T to lose some units, and you have 2 disruptors that are good against mostly ghosts nothing more,
tl;dr these drops should not be nerfed at all cause are micro intensive, costly and are not winning games by themselves at all compared to 3 queued liberators attacking from nowhere while you are fighting
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On January 24 2018 12:57 SnowfaLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 10:47 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 09:32 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 07:36 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 03:39 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 03:09 Freeborn wrote:On January 24 2018 02:47 Elentos wrote:On January 24 2018 02:27 Freeborn wrote:
Does anyone have any examples of progames where the stalkers are too strong? Or where protosses defeat good terran players easily?
I'm pretty sure this stalker nerf is hyped by terran whining again. Terran is not underperforming as far as I can tell.
It rather looks like terran is still a bit too strong versus zerg and zerg is now very strong versus protoss.
While terrans can still win with pure bio mine and drops versus protoss without even using ravens or ghosts... It's not stalkers in a vacuum, it's a combination of buffed stalkers, buffed chargelots, nerfed mine drops etc. Even just the overall match-up winrates aside, the top Terrans themselves all have poor winrates against Protoss on the new patch in tournament matches. The Korean TvP meta at the moment involves lots of 2-base all-ins. Definite Examples and sources please? PvT is currently at 59% http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1For specific games, check any one of these: Classic v TThen compare the PvT winrates for top Protoss players (Classic, Stats, herO, etc) and TvP winrates for top Terrans (Inno, Maru, TY, etc). The Protoss players all have ~20% higher winrates on average. lul, buddy linking a aligulac period that is only a week in. a few weeks ago I saw it was like 57%, then evened out to 51%, haha. looking at past ones we have 51%, 52%, 52% ... If you want a more detailed collection of stats: PvT for Nov/Dec was at 53%. You left out the first December period at 55%, and before that was 56%. Summing the last and current period (January games till now) gives us 363/667 games, or 54%. Currently, of course, PvT is at 59%. PvT for top pros (games and series):
Stats: 81% and 92% Classic: 80% and 90% herO: 78% and 88% sOs: 75% and 83% Zest: 70% and 77% TvP for top pros (games and series):
aLive: 57% and 66% Inno: 56% and 61% Maru: 52% and 61% Gumiho: 50% and 51% TY: 27% and 18% Obviously, this data is not perfect. If PvT was balanced we would expect some players to have advantages and others disadvantages. We would expect statistical noise randomly in favor of Protoss or Terran. A single top Protoss doing well or a single period favoring Protoss is perfectly normal for a balanced matchup. But when all the periods, all the pros, and all the data are pointing towards Protoss > Terran across the board, as they are right now, that's an indication that something is wrong with the matchup. no, you're being biased. LMFAO how can you put up """""""""stats"""""""" like "vs top pros or series" when for example, stats has an 85.71% winrate with only 14 games played. LMFAO, 14 games confirmed proper statistics to use in an arguement. These six series where he played bunny, keen, and cure? lmfao. Ah, it's youngjiddle again isn't it? Checks nameYep, thought so. No point in discussing anything here then. Hope you enjoy the stalker nerf. Don't know where you are getting your numbers from besides cherrypicking, cause just looking at INnovation alone, hes at 65% WR vP - http://aligulac.com/players/48-INnoVation/If you go just from Dec 2017, hes at 59% http://aligulac.com/players/48/results/?after=2017-12-01&before=&event=&race=p&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=TY had similar winrates when i checked earlier today. Basically, all it proves is that Classic is on fire right now (take Classic away, and Innovation is over 90% WR!), and all top terrans still beat protoss pretty handily. Take away Neeb in smaller tournaments from aligac and see Protoss winrates drop to under 50% vT. You can't seriously use this as the source for your balance whine? Terran has been the dominate race for 7 years now, it was nice to have a patch that was getting closer to being fair.. but 3 weeks of "slightly" favorable protoss results end up with the terran crybabies threatening to quit the game and pestering blizzard to make changes already.. yet when Protoss was 42% WR vs Terran last year, blizzard said "We'll wait 6 months to see how the balance plays out".. this game's bias is LOL-worthy.
"Terran has been the dominate race for 7 years now......"
Terran has certainly had periods of dominance like GomTvT but to ignore BL/Infestor, the Blink era, PvProleague, etc, is pure biased bullshit. The only thing LOL-worthy here is your victim complex and hypocrisy.
For the pros, I was using post-4.0 as the date, and if you bothered reading my post instead of wallowing in self-pity you'd see that I said myself that the data was flawed–so we have to aggregate all the sources, from aligulac in general to specific tournaments and then specific players. In all cases Protoss is at the very least 50%+ and in some cases far beyond that, which indicates that there's systemic Protoss-favored imbalance in the matchup.
But go on, keep crying about crybabies. You cite Terrans clinging to imbalance in their favor after 3.8 while doing the exact same thing ater 4.0. The irony is hilarious.
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On January 24 2018 09:16 KR_4EVR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 08:03 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:54 Tyrhanius wrote:On January 24 2018 05:44 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 04:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On January 24 2018 03:51 washikie wrote:On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. The same way Terran deals with Zerg and Protoss late game, kill them before they get there. It's the answer for Terran Zerg have always said was totally fine so why can't it work for zerg? You re suggestin Terran cant beat zerg lategame? splitmap scenarios favor Terrans very heavily, granted, Zerg can fight back, unlike zvP, but mass ghost and lots of fortified positions is definitely +EV for Terrans. And as far as i can tell, terrans can win late-lategame even without those, albeit less likely Lategame TvZ favors Zerg just like lategame PvZ favors Protoss. Therefore, the burden is on Zerg to kill Protoss before lategame just like the burden is on Terran to kill Zerg before lategame. Zerg has the advantage of insta-remax in the lategame once both sides have huge banks. Protoss doesn't care about this since the Skytoss+Templar deathball can beat the shit out of Zerg several times over, but insta-remax works very well against Terran. Similarly, Protoss has mothership recall and nexus recall to teleport their big slow deathball around but Terran's deathball doesn't and is even slower because Tanks+Libs need to siege up. And most importantly, a lategame Protoss army exploits the lack of Zerg AA while a lategame Terran army is ground-based. It's not like Terran never beats Zerg or Zerg never beats Protoss, but the fact that lategame favors certain races over others is pretty obvious. Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units. And so on. But broadly speaking, lategame goes P > Z > T That's funny, how using ability when T does it become "gosu micro", but not when it's abduct or storm while it's exactly the same lol. Seen soO streaming and lost vs terran mass ghost on late game, he said "Terran imba". Late game is completly winnable for T vs Z right now. ......... Did you even read my post? You are complaining that I am somehow bashing storm/abduct because I used synonymous adjectives? Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units.
I used the term "great positioning" to describe abduct usage, because I didn't want to repeat myself and use "gosu micro" twice. Quibble over semantics if you like, but "great positioning" is not an insult and I wasn't bashing abduct/storm. And last I checked, neither abduct nor storm have a 1.43 second delay between click and cast, so no it's not exactly the same at all. You said soO bitches about Terran. I've seen Stats bitch about Zerg and Inno bitch about Protoss. Progamers are people too, they get frustrated like anyone else. And you say that lategame TvZ is winnable for Terran...... It's not like Terran never beats Zerg is what I said. So basically, you complained about two things I never said, and then repeated what I said. Seriously man, at least read my post before you bash it. He's not arguing with you. He's just interjecting his own point: that ANY zerg can abduct well, whereas it truly takes "Gosu-level" micro for a Terran to use the Snipe ability effectively.
I'm just joking about Terran players so arrogant. When they split 2 units "gosu godlike micro", when they use an ability "trutly gosu micro".
It's so ridiculous, diamond player knows how to use ghosts, it's just pressing a touch lol.
It's not harder than using any ability, but yeah when T suddently start using a caster once in a blue moon it's "gosu micro", while Z/P using regulary a set of 2-3 casters is "Noob A move".
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On January 24 2018 14:45 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 09:16 KR_4EVR wrote:On January 24 2018 08:03 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:54 Tyrhanius wrote:On January 24 2018 05:44 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 04:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On January 24 2018 03:51 washikie wrote:On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. The same way Terran deals with Zerg and Protoss late game, kill them before they get there. It's the answer for Terran Zerg have always said was totally fine so why can't it work for zerg? You re suggestin Terran cant beat zerg lategame? splitmap scenarios favor Terrans very heavily, granted, Zerg can fight back, unlike zvP, but mass ghost and lots of fortified positions is definitely +EV for Terrans. And as far as i can tell, terrans can win late-lategame even without those, albeit less likely Lategame TvZ favors Zerg just like lategame PvZ favors Protoss. Therefore, the burden is on Zerg to kill Protoss before lategame just like the burden is on Terran to kill Zerg before lategame. Zerg has the advantage of insta-remax in the lategame once both sides have huge banks. Protoss doesn't care about this since the Skytoss+Templar deathball can beat the shit out of Zerg several times over, but insta-remax works very well against Terran. Similarly, Protoss has mothership recall and nexus recall to teleport their big slow deathball around but Terran's deathball doesn't and is even slower because Tanks+Libs need to siege up. And most importantly, a lategame Protoss army exploits the lack of Zerg AA while a lategame Terran army is ground-based. It's not like Terran never beats Zerg or Zerg never beats Protoss, but the fact that lategame favors certain races over others is pretty obvious. Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units. And so on. But broadly speaking, lategame goes P > Z > T That's funny, how using ability when T does it become "gosu micro", but not when it's abduct or storm while it's exactly the same lol. Seen soO streaming and lost vs terran mass ghost on late game, he said "Terran imba". Late game is completly winnable for T vs Z right now. ......... Did you even read my post? You are complaining that I am somehow bashing storm/abduct because I used synonymous adjectives? Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units.
I used the term "great positioning" to describe abduct usage, because I didn't want to repeat myself and use "gosu micro" twice. Quibble over semantics if you like, but "great positioning" is not an insult and I wasn't bashing abduct/storm. And last I checked, neither abduct nor storm have a 1.43 second delay between click and cast, so no it's not exactly the same at all. You said soO bitches about Terran. I've seen Stats bitch about Zerg and Inno bitch about Protoss. Progamers are people too, they get frustrated like anyone else. And you say that lategame TvZ is winnable for Terran...... It's not like Terran never beats Zerg is what I said. So basically, you complained about two things I never said, and then repeated what I said. Seriously man, at least read my post before you bash it. He's not arguing with you. He's just interjecting his own point: that ANY zerg can abduct well, whereas it truly takes "Gosu-level" micro for a Terran to use the Snipe ability effectively. I'm just joking about Terran players so arrogant. When they split 2 units "gosu godlike micro", when they use an ability "trutly gosu micro". It's so ridiculous, diamond player knows how to use ghosts, it's just pressing a touch lol. It's not harder than using any ability, but yeah when T suddently start using a caster once in a blue moon it's "gosu micro", while Z/P using regulary a set of 2-3 casters is "Noob A move".
I literally complimented Zerg viper micro, then explained why it was a compliment, and you are still whining about something I never said.
Good god.
EDIT: I misunderstood this, sorry about that.
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On January 24 2018 13:47 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 12:57 SnowfaLL wrote:On January 24 2018 10:47 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 09:32 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 07:36 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 03:39 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 03:09 Freeborn wrote:On January 24 2018 02:47 Elentos wrote:On January 24 2018 02:27 Freeborn wrote:
Does anyone have any examples of progames where the stalkers are too strong? Or where protosses defeat good terran players easily?
I'm pretty sure this stalker nerf is hyped by terran whining again. Terran is not underperforming as far as I can tell.
It rather looks like terran is still a bit too strong versus zerg and zerg is now very strong versus protoss.
While terrans can still win with pure bio mine and drops versus protoss without even using ravens or ghosts... It's not stalkers in a vacuum, it's a combination of buffed stalkers, buffed chargelots, nerfed mine drops etc. Even just the overall match-up winrates aside, the top Terrans themselves all have poor winrates against Protoss on the new patch in tournament matches. The Korean TvP meta at the moment involves lots of 2-base all-ins. Definite Examples and sources please? PvT is currently at 59% http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1For specific games, check any one of these: Classic v TThen compare the PvT winrates for top Protoss players (Classic, Stats, herO, etc) and TvP winrates for top Terrans (Inno, Maru, TY, etc). The Protoss players all have ~20% higher winrates on average. lul, buddy linking a aligulac period that is only a week in. a few weeks ago I saw it was like 57%, then evened out to 51%, haha. looking at past ones we have 51%, 52%, 52% ... If you want a more detailed collection of stats: PvT for Nov/Dec was at 53%. You left out the first December period at 55%, and before that was 56%. Summing the last and current period (January games till now) gives us 363/667 games, or 54%. Currently, of course, PvT is at 59%. PvT for top pros (games and series):
Stats: 81% and 92% Classic: 80% and 90% herO: 78% and 88% sOs: 75% and 83% Zest: 70% and 77% TvP for top pros (games and series):
aLive: 57% and 66% Inno: 56% and 61% Maru: 52% and 61% Gumiho: 50% and 51% TY: 27% and 18% Obviously, this data is not perfect. If PvT was balanced we would expect some players to have advantages and others disadvantages. We would expect statistical noise randomly in favor of Protoss or Terran. A single top Protoss doing well or a single period favoring Protoss is perfectly normal for a balanced matchup. But when all the periods, all the pros, and all the data are pointing towards Protoss > Terran across the board, as they are right now, that's an indication that something is wrong with the matchup. no, you're being biased. LMFAO how can you put up """""""""stats"""""""" like "vs top pros or series" when for example, stats has an 85.71% winrate with only 14 games played. LMFAO, 14 games confirmed proper statistics to use in an arguement. These six series where he played bunny, keen, and cure? lmfao. Ah, it's youngjiddle again isn't it? Checks nameYep, thought so. No point in discussing anything here then. Hope you enjoy the stalker nerf. Don't know where you are getting your numbers from besides cherrypicking, cause just looking at INnovation alone, hes at 65% WR vP - http://aligulac.com/players/48-INnoVation/If you go just from Dec 2017, hes at 59% http://aligulac.com/players/48/results/?after=2017-12-01&before=&event=&race=p&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=TY had similar winrates when i checked earlier today. Basically, all it proves is that Classic is on fire right now (take Classic away, and Innovation is over 90% WR!), and all top terrans still beat protoss pretty handily. Take away Neeb in smaller tournaments from aligac and see Protoss winrates drop to under 50% vT. You can't seriously use this as the source for your balance whine? Terran has been the dominate race for 7 years now, it was nice to have a patch that was getting closer to being fair.. but 3 weeks of "slightly" favorable protoss results end up with the terran crybabies threatening to quit the game and pestering blizzard to make changes already.. yet when Protoss was 42% WR vs Terran last year, blizzard said "We'll wait 6 months to see how the balance plays out".. this game's bias is LOL-worthy. "Terran has been the dominate race for 7 years now......"Terran has certainly had periods of dominance like GomTvT but to ignore BL/Infestor, the Blink era, PvProleague, etc, is pure biased bullshit. The only thing LOL-worthy here is your victim complex and hypocrisy. For the pros, I was using post-4.0 as the date, and if you bothered reading my post instead of wallowing in self-pity you'd see that I said myself that the data was flawed–so we have to aggregate all the sources, from aligulac in general to specific tournaments and then specific players. In all cases Protoss is at the very least 50%+ and in some cases far beyond that, which indicates that there's systemic Protoss-favored imbalance in the matchup. But go on, keep crying about crybabies. You cite Terrans clinging to imbalance in their favor after 3.8 while doing the exact same thing ater 4.0. The irony is hilarious.
Lol what a pleasant person to try and have a balance discussion with.. I think you should watch rotti's clip about Terran whiners, fits you to a T. Typical terran. It's impossible to discuss anything unbiased in this thread so I'll just keep enjoying the crying of protoss having a few percent positive in the matchup for the first time in years.. the yummy tears of avilo fans.
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On January 24 2018 14:59 SnowfaLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 13:47 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 12:57 SnowfaLL wrote:On January 24 2018 10:47 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 09:32 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 07:36 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:09 youngjiddle wrote:On January 24 2018 03:39 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 03:09 Freeborn wrote:On January 24 2018 02:47 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
It's not stalkers in a vacuum, it's a combination of buffed stalkers, buffed chargelots, nerfed mine drops etc. Even just the overall match-up winrates aside, the top Terrans themselves all have poor winrates against Protoss on the new patch in tournament matches. The Korean TvP meta at the moment involves lots of 2-base all-ins. Definite Examples and sources please? PvT is currently at 59% http://aligulac.com/periods/207/?page=1For specific games, check any one of these: Classic v TThen compare the PvT winrates for top Protoss players (Classic, Stats, herO, etc) and TvP winrates for top Terrans (Inno, Maru, TY, etc). The Protoss players all have ~20% higher winrates on average. lul, buddy linking a aligulac period that is only a week in. a few weeks ago I saw it was like 57%, then evened out to 51%, haha. looking at past ones we have 51%, 52%, 52% ... If you want a more detailed collection of stats: PvT for Nov/Dec was at 53%. You left out the first December period at 55%, and before that was 56%. Summing the last and current period (January games till now) gives us 363/667 games, or 54%. Currently, of course, PvT is at 59%. PvT for top pros (games and series):
Stats: 81% and 92% Classic: 80% and 90% herO: 78% and 88% sOs: 75% and 83% Zest: 70% and 77% TvP for top pros (games and series):
aLive: 57% and 66% Inno: 56% and 61% Maru: 52% and 61% Gumiho: 50% and 51% TY: 27% and 18% Obviously, this data is not perfect. If PvT was balanced we would expect some players to have advantages and others disadvantages. We would expect statistical noise randomly in favor of Protoss or Terran. A single top Protoss doing well or a single period favoring Protoss is perfectly normal for a balanced matchup. But when all the periods, all the pros, and all the data are pointing towards Protoss > Terran across the board, as they are right now, that's an indication that something is wrong with the matchup. no, you're being biased. LMFAO how can you put up """""""""stats"""""""" like "vs top pros or series" when for example, stats has an 85.71% winrate with only 14 games played. LMFAO, 14 games confirmed proper statistics to use in an arguement. These six series where he played bunny, keen, and cure? lmfao. Ah, it's youngjiddle again isn't it? Checks nameYep, thought so. No point in discussing anything here then. Hope you enjoy the stalker nerf. Don't know where you are getting your numbers from besides cherrypicking, cause just looking at INnovation alone, hes at 65% WR vP - http://aligulac.com/players/48-INnoVation/If you go just from Dec 2017, hes at 59% http://aligulac.com/players/48/results/?after=2017-12-01&before=&event=&race=p&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=TY had similar winrates when i checked earlier today. Basically, all it proves is that Classic is on fire right now (take Classic away, and Innovation is over 90% WR!), and all top terrans still beat protoss pretty handily. Take away Neeb in smaller tournaments from aligac and see Protoss winrates drop to under 50% vT. You can't seriously use this as the source for your balance whine? Terran has been the dominate race for 7 years now, it was nice to have a patch that was getting closer to being fair.. but 3 weeks of "slightly" favorable protoss results end up with the terran crybabies threatening to quit the game and pestering blizzard to make changes already.. yet when Protoss was 42% WR vs Terran last year, blizzard said "We'll wait 6 months to see how the balance plays out".. this game's bias is LOL-worthy. "Terran has been the dominate race for 7 years now......"Terran has certainly had periods of dominance like GomTvT but to ignore BL/Infestor, the Blink era, PvProleague, etc, is pure biased bullshit. The only thing LOL-worthy here is your victim complex and hypocrisy. For the pros, I was using post-4.0 as the date, and if you bothered reading my post instead of wallowing in self-pity you'd see that I said myself that the data was flawed–so we have to aggregate all the sources, from aligulac in general to specific tournaments and then specific players. In all cases Protoss is at the very least 50%+ and in some cases far beyond that, which indicates that there's systemic Protoss-favored imbalance in the matchup. But go on, keep crying about crybabies. You cite Terrans clinging to imbalance in their favor after 3.8 while doing the exact same thing ater 4.0. The irony is hilarious. Lol what a pleasant person to try and have a balance discussion with.. I think you should watch rotti's clip about Terran whiners, fits you to a T. Typical terran. It's impossible to discuss anything unbiased in this thread so I'll just keep enjoying the crying of protoss having a few percent positive in the matchup for the first time in years.. the yummy tears of avilo fans.
I loved Rotti's clip. It's dead on. There are a ton of Terran whiners who blame imbalance for their own ladder failings. Me though, I'm so "typical" that I don't even main Terran. Crazy, isn't it? But, but, but......I don't agree with you so I must be a stereotypical whiny Terran, right? Guess again.
I'm happy to have a pleasant conversation with anyone that doesn't join the conversation with a mountain of salty hypocrisy. If you just left off the last paragraph in your OP, then you would have gotten a perfectly civil response. A shame, since you even had some solid points about statistics. But nope, gotta bitch about Terrans.
I too love avilo's yummy tears. Have you seen the incontrol/avilo clip? It's great.
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On January 24 2018 14:45 Tyrhanius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 09:16 KR_4EVR wrote:On January 24 2018 08:03 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:54 Tyrhanius wrote:On January 24 2018 05:44 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 04:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On January 24 2018 03:51 washikie wrote:On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. The same way Terran deals with Zerg and Protoss late game, kill them before they get there. It's the answer for Terran Zerg have always said was totally fine so why can't it work for zerg? You re suggestin Terran cant beat zerg lategame? splitmap scenarios favor Terrans very heavily, granted, Zerg can fight back, unlike zvP, but mass ghost and lots of fortified positions is definitely +EV for Terrans. And as far as i can tell, terrans can win late-lategame even without those, albeit less likely Lategame TvZ favors Zerg just like lategame PvZ favors Protoss. Therefore, the burden is on Zerg to kill Protoss before lategame just like the burden is on Terran to kill Zerg before lategame. Zerg has the advantage of insta-remax in the lategame once both sides have huge banks. Protoss doesn't care about this since the Skytoss+Templar deathball can beat the shit out of Zerg several times over, but insta-remax works very well against Terran. Similarly, Protoss has mothership recall and nexus recall to teleport their big slow deathball around but Terran's deathball doesn't and is even slower because Tanks+Libs need to siege up. And most importantly, a lategame Protoss army exploits the lack of Zerg AA while a lategame Terran army is ground-based. It's not like Terran never beats Zerg or Zerg never beats Protoss, but the fact that lategame favors certain races over others is pretty obvious. Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units. And so on. But broadly speaking, lategame goes P > Z > T That's funny, how using ability when T does it become "gosu micro", but not when it's abduct or storm while it's exactly the same lol. Seen soO streaming and lost vs terran mass ghost on late game, he said "Terran imba". Late game is completly winnable for T vs Z right now. ......... Did you even read my post? You are complaining that I am somehow bashing storm/abduct because I used synonymous adjectives? Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units.
I used the term "great positioning" to describe abduct usage, because I didn't want to repeat myself and use "gosu micro" twice. Quibble over semantics if you like, but "great positioning" is not an insult and I wasn't bashing abduct/storm. And last I checked, neither abduct nor storm have a 1.43 second delay between click and cast, so no it's not exactly the same at all. You said soO bitches about Terran. I've seen Stats bitch about Zerg and Inno bitch about Protoss. Progamers are people too, they get frustrated like anyone else. And you say that lategame TvZ is winnable for Terran...... It's not like Terran never beats Zerg is what I said. So basically, you complained about two things I never said, and then repeated what I said. Seriously man, at least read my post before you bash it. He's not arguing with you. He's just interjecting his own point: that ANY zerg can abduct well, whereas it truly takes "Gosu-level" micro for a Terran to use the Snipe ability effectively. I'm just joking about Terran players so arrogant. When they split 2 units "gosu godlike micro", when they use an ability "trutly gosu micro". It's so ridiculous, diamond player knows how to use ghosts, it's just pressing a touch lol. It's not harder than using any ability, but yeah when T suddently start using a caster once in a blue moon it's "gosu micro", while Z/P using regulary a set of 2-3 casters is "Noob A move".
Because Terran bio is so fragile compared to roach/hydra that usually accompany vipers; or the charglot/archons that accompany high templar. Because Terran units (widow mines and siege tanks) do friendly fire when not controlled properly.
Enjoy watching ZvZ, ZvP, and PvP 90% of the time you tune into SC2 streams. Then wonder why viewership dwindles when 1/3 of the player base don't have enough players to emulate/cheer/whatever on streams.
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On January 24 2018 14:59 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 14:45 Tyrhanius wrote:On January 24 2018 09:16 KR_4EVR wrote:On January 24 2018 08:03 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:54 Tyrhanius wrote:On January 24 2018 05:44 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 04:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On January 24 2018 03:51 washikie wrote:On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. The same way Terran deals with Zerg and Protoss late game, kill them before they get there. It's the answer for Terran Zerg have always said was totally fine so why can't it work for zerg? You re suggestin Terran cant beat zerg lategame? splitmap scenarios favor Terrans very heavily, granted, Zerg can fight back, unlike zvP, but mass ghost and lots of fortified positions is definitely +EV for Terrans. And as far as i can tell, terrans can win late-lategame even without those, albeit less likely Lategame TvZ favors Zerg just like lategame PvZ favors Protoss. Therefore, the burden is on Zerg to kill Protoss before lategame just like the burden is on Terran to kill Zerg before lategame. Zerg has the advantage of insta-remax in the lategame once both sides have huge banks. Protoss doesn't care about this since the Skytoss+Templar deathball can beat the shit out of Zerg several times over, but insta-remax works very well against Terran. Similarly, Protoss has mothership recall and nexus recall to teleport their big slow deathball around but Terran's deathball doesn't and is even slower because Tanks+Libs need to siege up. And most importantly, a lategame Protoss army exploits the lack of Zerg AA while a lategame Terran army is ground-based. It's not like Terran never beats Zerg or Zerg never beats Protoss, but the fact that lategame favors certain races over others is pretty obvious. Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units. And so on. But broadly speaking, lategame goes P > Z > T That's funny, how using ability when T does it become "gosu micro", but not when it's abduct or storm while it's exactly the same lol. Seen soO streaming and lost vs terran mass ghost on late game, he said "Terran imba". Late game is completly winnable for T vs Z right now. ......... Did you even read my post? You are complaining that I am somehow bashing storm/abduct because I used synonymous adjectives? Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units.
I used the term "great positioning" to describe abduct usage, because I didn't want to repeat myself and use "gosu micro" twice. Quibble over semantics if you like, but "great positioning" is not an insult and I wasn't bashing abduct/storm. And last I checked, neither abduct nor storm have a 1.43 second delay between click and cast, so no it's not exactly the same at all. You said soO bitches about Terran. I've seen Stats bitch about Zerg and Inno bitch about Protoss. Progamers are people too, they get frustrated like anyone else. And you say that lategame TvZ is winnable for Terran...... It's not like Terran never beats Zerg is what I said. So basically, you complained about two things I never said, and then repeated what I said. Seriously man, at least read my post before you bash it. He's not arguing with you. He's just interjecting his own point: that ANY zerg can abduct well, whereas it truly takes "Gosu-level" micro for a Terran to use the Snipe ability effectively. I'm just joking about Terran players so arrogant. When they split 2 units "gosu godlike micro", when they use an ability "trutly gosu micro". It's so ridiculous, diamond player knows how to use ghosts, it's just pressing a touch lol. It's not harder than using any ability, but yeah when T suddently start using a caster once in a blue moon it's "gosu micro", while Z/P using regulary a set of 2-3 casters is "Noob A move". I literally complimented Zerg viper micro, then explained why it was a compliment, and you are still whining about something I never said. Good god.
Tyrhanius is still not arguing with you, pvsnp. The things said by Tyrhanius are additions from another person saying basically the same thing. You identified the "same thing" but you still got defensive. Not everyone is youngjiddle. Relax and see that there are people that aren't against you.
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On January 24 2018 15:43 Drfilip wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2018 14:59 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 14:45 Tyrhanius wrote:On January 24 2018 09:16 KR_4EVR wrote:On January 24 2018 08:03 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 07:54 Tyrhanius wrote:On January 24 2018 05:44 pvsnp wrote:On January 24 2018 04:54 Geo.Rion wrote:On January 24 2018 03:51 washikie wrote:On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. The same way Terran deals with Zerg and Protoss late game, kill them before they get there. It's the answer for Terran Zerg have always said was totally fine so why can't it work for zerg? You re suggestin Terran cant beat zerg lategame? splitmap scenarios favor Terrans very heavily, granted, Zerg can fight back, unlike zvP, but mass ghost and lots of fortified positions is definitely +EV for Terrans. And as far as i can tell, terrans can win late-lategame even without those, albeit less likely Lategame TvZ favors Zerg just like lategame PvZ favors Protoss. Therefore, the burden is on Zerg to kill Protoss before lategame just like the burden is on Terran to kill Zerg before lategame. Zerg has the advantage of insta-remax in the lategame once both sides have huge banks. Protoss doesn't care about this since the Skytoss+Templar deathball can beat the shit out of Zerg several times over, but insta-remax works very well against Terran. Similarly, Protoss has mothership recall and nexus recall to teleport their big slow deathball around but Terran's deathball doesn't and is even slower because Tanks+Libs need to siege up. And most importantly, a lategame Protoss army exploits the lack of Zerg AA while a lategame Terran army is ground-based. It's not like Terran never beats Zerg or Zerg never beats Protoss, but the fact that lategame favors certain races over others is pretty obvious. Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units. And so on. But broadly speaking, lategame goes P > Z > T That's funny, how using ability when T does it become "gosu micro", but not when it's abduct or storm while it's exactly the same lol. Seen soO streaming and lost vs terran mass ghost on late game, he said "Terran imba". Late game is completly winnable for T vs Z right now. ......... Did you even read my post? You are complaining that I am somehow bashing storm/abduct because I used synonymous adjectives? Terrans with gosu ghost micro can land snipes and trade cost efficiently. Zergs with great positioning can abduct and pick off expensive tech units.
I used the term "great positioning" to describe abduct usage, because I didn't want to repeat myself and use "gosu micro" twice. Quibble over semantics if you like, but "great positioning" is not an insult and I wasn't bashing abduct/storm. And last I checked, neither abduct nor storm have a 1.43 second delay between click and cast, so no it's not exactly the same at all. You said soO bitches about Terran. I've seen Stats bitch about Zerg and Inno bitch about Protoss. Progamers are people too, they get frustrated like anyone else. And you say that lategame TvZ is winnable for Terran...... It's not like Terran never beats Zerg is what I said. So basically, you complained about two things I never said, and then repeated what I said. Seriously man, at least read my post before you bash it. He's not arguing with you. He's just interjecting his own point: that ANY zerg can abduct well, whereas it truly takes "Gosu-level" micro for a Terran to use the Snipe ability effectively. I'm just joking about Terran players so arrogant. When they split 2 units "gosu godlike micro", when they use an ability "trutly gosu micro". It's so ridiculous, diamond player knows how to use ghosts, it's just pressing a touch lol. It's not harder than using any ability, but yeah when T suddently start using a caster once in a blue moon it's "gosu micro", while Z/P using regulary a set of 2-3 casters is "Noob A move". I literally complimented Zerg viper micro, then explained why it was a compliment, and you are still whining about something I never said. Good god. Tyrhanius is still not arguing with you, pvsnp. The things said by Tyrhanius are additions from another person saying basically the same thing. You identified the "same thing" but you still got defensive. Not everyone is youngjiddle. Relax and see that there are people that aren't against you.
Oh lol, stupid me. I must've misread/misunderstood.
Sorry about that, just got locked into defensive mode and assumed he meant it in a whiny way. I'm a dumbass.
Thanks for snapping me out of it, man. Appreciate it.
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When is this patch going live?
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On January 24 2018 19:16 kajtarp wrote:
When is this patch going live?
While I haven't found a particular date, I guess it will be within 1-2 weeks, if testing goes smoothly.
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I don't know why you guys are still arguing about win rates.
It doesn't matter if PvT win rate is 40% or 60%. When 50% of the played games are some type of 2/3 base all-in with pulling the boys, the matchup is kinda flawed.
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Darn, repair drone was my favourite spell, I really like to have my army always healed up and not relying on accompanying SCVs and steady mineral and gas income to achieve it.
Well, at least I still have my zerg with constant heal on every single thing  .
On January 23 2018 21:32 _Epi_ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 18:37 Mithriel wrote:
I actually made Ravens for the repair drone and matrix, shame to lose the repair and get a turret.
Im no pro by any means, but felt like a repair for my mech army was useful and I dislike the turret in general. Mee too, I used the repair drone frequently and it was for me a big thing using the raven. Mech had a real lategame with the repair drone, it was not used enough to really point out being bad or not useful
Glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes new stuff takes a really long time to catch on, even with the pros. It's a shame blizz weren't willing to give this ability the chance to prove its worth.
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On January 24 2018 22:05 MrFreeman wrote:Darn, repair drone was my favourite spell, I really like to have my army always healed up and not relying on accompanying SCVs and steady mineral and gas income to achieve it. Well, at least I still have my zerg with constant heal on every single thing . Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 21:32 _Epi_ wrote:On January 23 2018 18:37 Mithriel wrote:
I actually made Ravens for the repair drone and matrix, shame to lose the repair and get a turret.
Im no pro by any means, but felt like a repair for my mech army was useful and I dislike the turret in general. Mee too, I used the repair drone frequently and it was for me a big thing using the raven. Mech had a real lategame with the repair drone, it was not used enough to really point out being bad or not useful Glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes new stuff takes a really long time to catch on, even with the pros. It's a shame blizz weren't willing to give this ability the chance to prove its worth.
You can build extra orbitals and use call down mules to repair your army anywhere on the map 
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Thanks for pointing that out, had 29th in my head, but didn't want to commit on that 
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Mines should have a 'Stop firing button' like ghost has one 'hold fire/weapons fire'.
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EPT
