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On January 26 2018 07:23 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2018 22:42 WaesumNinja wrote:On January 25 2018 22:25 Charoisaur wrote:
haha during BL/Infestor era Zerg players said Zerg players are just better too and of course during the blink era protoss players were much better.
Yes they did, but in case you missed it, they were doing that only as a snarky reference to what Terrans had been saying. No, they did not. Bias isn't something that is exclusive to Terran players, so don't make a fool of yourself.
Yeah, I don't know why people are still trying to discuss this nonsense.
It's stupid to say that Terrans are just better players, and equally stupid to say that about Protoss/Zerg. GomTvT had Terran apologists, BL/Infestor had Zerg apologists, and the Blink era had Protoss apologists. Every time one race is OP, there will be players who fight to keep the imbalance in their favor. It's been that way since 2010, it is still that way right now, and it will continue to be that way for as long as SC2 is still played.
Not rocket science.
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I'll say that I do belive terran is the harder and more demanding race to play. If Inno or Maru had played protoss instead of terran, they would have dominated even harder than they did. That being said players have pushed the skill level of each race to remarkable heights regardless
The majority of legend players had their biggest successes when their race was favoured anyway. So comparing them is difficult. Has zerg had players that were as good as MVP or Inno? Probably. I was honestly more impressed by what ByuL and soO did in GSL, even though Inno beat both of them. And MVP will always be overrated
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On January 26 2018 07:23 Creager wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2018 22:42 WaesumNinja wrote:On January 25 2018 22:25 Charoisaur wrote:
haha during BL/Infestor era Zerg players said Zerg players are just better too and of course during the blink era protoss players were much better.
Yes they did, but in case you missed it, they were doing that only as a snarky reference to what Terrans had been saying. No, they did not. Bias isn't something that is exclusive to Terran players, so don't make a fool of yourself.
If they used that specific phrasing then it's fairly guaranteed that they indeed did, yes.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On January 26 2018 08:28 Fango wrote:
I'll say that I do belive terran is the harder and more demanding race to play. If Inno or Maru had played protoss instead of terran, they would have dominated even harder than they did. That being said players have pushed the skill level of each race to remarkable heights regardless
The majority of legend players had their biggest successes when their race was favoured anyway. So comparing them is difficult. Has zerg had players that were as good as MVP or Inno? Probably. I was honestly more impressed by what ByuL and soO did in GSL, even though Inno beat both of them. And MVP will always be overrated
That's not true, as Protoss is too much different from Terran. It's the same as Flash and TErran in SC2...
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so when is the 2018 season 1 starting?
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On January 26 2018 17:27 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2018 08:28 Fango wrote:
I'll say that I do belive terran is the harder and more demanding race to play. If Inno or Maru had played protoss instead of terran, they would have dominated even harder than they did. That being said players have pushed the skill level of each race to remarkable heights regardless
The majority of legend players had their biggest successes when their race was favoured anyway. So comparing them is difficult. Has zerg had players that were as good as MVP or Inno? Probably. I was honestly more impressed by what ByuL and soO did in GSL, even though Inno beat both of them. And MVP will always be overrated That's not true, as Protoss is too much different from Terran. It's the same as Flash and TErran in SC2...
Protoss is different from terran yes. But the mechanical skills that Inno and Maru showed in HoTS were above anyone elses. If they applied the same skills and work ethic to a race which was more powerful (for most of the game's existance) I believe they would have had better results.
Flash would have had better success as protoss in sc2 than terran as well. He said he thought his sc2 protoss was better, as it had more similarity with terran in broodwar. The reason he didn't switch was because didn't want to outrage fans (or so I've heard).
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On January 26 2018 18:00 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2018 17:27 deacon.frost wrote:On January 26 2018 08:28 Fango wrote:
I'll say that I do belive terran is the harder and more demanding race to play. If Inno or Maru had played protoss instead of terran, they would have dominated even harder than they did. That being said players have pushed the skill level of each race to remarkable heights regardless
The majority of legend players had their biggest successes when their race was favoured anyway. So comparing them is difficult. Has zerg had players that were as good as MVP or Inno? Probably. I was honestly more impressed by what ByuL and soO did in GSL, even though Inno beat both of them. And MVP will always be overrated That's not true, as Protoss is too much different from Terran. It's the same as Flash and TErran in SC2... Protoss is different from terran yes. But the mechanical skills that Inno and Maru showed in HoTS were above anyone elses.
High level objective analysis by the residual terran expert 
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Maru is one of the least well rounded high level players ever, so idk what gives you the impression that he could play another race at a higher level. What he does well he truly excels at, but what he does badly... Maru would have had better results in HotS if he hadn't constantly handicapped himself with terrible compositions (remember all those series he lost against Dear due to refusing to ever build vikings against colossi?).
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On January 26 2018 17:47 nanaoei wrote:
so when is the 2018 season 1 starting?
it has started already, but it s still on the old patch
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Even when Korean Terrans were dominating in the past, foreign Terrans were not overly dominant in the scene. Since then, other races have been buffed to the point where top Koreans are "balanced" while the foreign Terrans are close to extinct.
Fuck winrates. The game design is flawed when one race requires the top-most skill to be visible in the tournament scene while the other races are better represented throughout the skill-curve.
I am so over "balance only matters at the top-most level". If Overwatch is any indication, Playership = Viewership. If Viewership = eSports, then fuck the elitist attitude that balance only matters at the top-most level.
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Widow mines are nearly useless now. I've played about 50 1v1s since the mine was nerfed, and there is no time where you want them.
1. Even when the unit is "invisible", you can see that it's there so you just back off.
2. Obviously when it goes off it becomes visible. Then it must be micro'd, just like every other Terran unit in existence.
3. The improvements to scan range means that ranged units literally never run into them when they have detection.
4. Anyone who is complaining about how awkward Disruptors are right now ought to try using widow mines for a day. They have a 2 second burrow time, as well as a 2 second delay before each one casts. This is why a pack of Mutas or Phoenix can kill nearly infinite widow mines.
5. Friendly fire. No tanking units. Wonderful.
6. Increased Observer + Overseer range while holding position makes them even less useful.
Why would any Terran build this unit? What is the situation where it's useful?
It is possible that you can catch a protoss off guard and get kills from a drop, but this is the very thing Blizzard wanted changed about it. Every other utility is now reduced to almost nothing, while this risky coin-flip is still there.
I did a Bio+widow mine all-in in TvP last night with 2 barracks and 2 factories cranking out mines. My opponent built Stalkers and Immortals. 12 widow mines built with my push. 1 kill from the mines. 0 from the rest of my units. After my push failed, I went home, built a missile turret at my front, and put 8 mines around it. The observer could see the mines on the front side and the back side of the turret farthest away from it. Stalker Immortal A-move for the win.
Much has been said about how mines are less useful in TvZ. Let me put the word out that TvP is just as bad. I was 25 supply up before my first attack. My opponent lost 1 stalker.
All this just to say: If the Widow Mine is going to remain visible while recharging, this unit needs a redesign. I have a few solutions that could be tried.
1. Reduce their supply, damage, cost, and size so that they can cover each other better.
2. Reduce the delay before they attack.
3. It may be that the only solution is to make them more like their predecessor, Spider Mines. If they were small, 1 supply, and blew up when they attacked there would be no more concern about these units being visible while recharging. This would be consistent with their identity as mines as well.
They cannot stay as they are.
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On January 28 2018 09:02 Ransomstarcraft wrote:
I did a Bio+widow mine all-in in TvP last night with 2 barracks and 2 factories cranking out mines. My opponent built Stalkers
and Immortals. 12 widow mines built with my push. 1 kill from the mines. 0 from the rest of my units. After my
..
They cannot stay as they are.
pro tip: don't build 12, only 4-6, to kill chargelots.
There are these .. Byun? and Demuslim? funny names.. players. You can watch their streams. They can yolo very nicely with mine+bio. Try the balance patch, it seems tvp will be much better on the new patch.
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no cyclone changes, uninstall
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Ok so just wanted to chime in here and give my opinion on the current state of the game. Parasitic Bomb is insane. Blizzard either needs to nerf the damage severely like they did for the seeker missile on the raven or AT THE VERY LEAST blizzard needs to mark the infected unit in the unit selection box at the bottom of the screen so that a terran player can weed out the bad unit quickly by either landing it or moving it away from the rest of the army. By only marking the infected unit itself on the battlefield it makes it extremely difficult to recognize it during the heat of the moment to move it away in time before the rest of the terran air army evaporates. If we make the unit marked in the selection box, it will make things similar to how zerg players reacted vs irradiate with mutas in broodwar. The irradiated muta was always significantly lower in health compared to the others that were stacked thus making it easier to weed out the bad unit. I think this change needs to go into effect asap.
With the super fast damage rate and the current way that the marking of the spell works for parasitic bomb at this time, there is literally not enough time for a terran player to micro vs the spell. Vikings naturally clump up when sent to an area in sc2 unlike non-magic boxing units in broodwar so pre-splitting is not an option. There definitely needs to be a combination of a nerf for the spell. My full recommendation is to tone down the speed in which all the damage is dealt for parasitic bomb AND marking the infected unit in the unit selection box on the bottom of the screen. An entire viking army should not evaporate in under 4 seconds without terran having a way to micro against it.
Last thing to add incase anyone else was wondering.... No, buffing seeker missile to operate the same way as parasitic bomb is not a good answer. Sure, it would make it so both spellcasters are virtually equal in terms of strength, however, making seeker missiles with crazy damage will only create very boring non-interactive games where terran does nothing but camp and mass ravens(we had this in the past if you can recall and it was unhealthy for the game). The game needs to be as interactive as possible. Terrans need a way to interact vs parasitic bomb.
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On January 28 2018 09:02 Ransomstarcraft wrote:
Widow mines are nearly useless now. I've played about 50 1v1s since the mine was nerfed, and there is no time where you want them.
1. Even when the unit is "invisible", you can see that it's there so you just back off.
2. Obviously when it goes off it becomes visible. Then it must be micro'd, just like every other Terran unit in existence.
3. The improvements to scan range means that ranged units literally never run into them when they have detection.
4. Anyone who is complaining about how awkward Disruptors are right now ought to try using widow mines for a day. They have a 2 second burrow time, as well as a 2 second delay before each one casts. This is why a pack of Mutas or Phoenix can kill nearly infinite widow mines.
5. Friendly fire. No tanking units. Wonderful.
6. Increased Observer + Overseer range while holding position makes them even less useful.
Why would any Terran build this unit? What is the situation where it's useful?
It is possible that you can catch a protoss off guard and get kills from a drop, but this is the very thing Blizzard wanted changed about it. Every other utility is now reduced to almost nothing, while this risky coin-flip is still there.
I did a Bio+widow mine all-in in TvP last night with 2 barracks and 2 factories cranking out mines. My opponent built Stalkers and Immortals. 12 widow mines built with my push. 1 kill from the mines. 0 from the rest of my units. After my push failed, I went home, built a missile turret at my front, and put 8 mines around it. The observer could see the mines on the front side and the back side of the turret farthest away from it. Stalker Immortal A-move for the win.
Much has been said about how mines are less useful in TvZ. Let me put the word out that TvP is just as bad. I was 25 supply up before my first attack. My opponent lost 1 stalker.
All this just to say: If the Widow Mine is going to remain visible while recharging, this unit needs a redesign. I have a few solutions that could be tried.
1. Reduce their supply, damage, cost, and size so that they can cover each other better.
2. Reduce the delay before they attack.
3. It may be that the only solution is to make them more like their predecessor, Spider Mines. If they were small, 1 supply, and blew up when they attacked there would be no more concern about these units being visible while recharging. This would be consistent with their identity as mines as well.
They cannot stay as they are.
Why on earth would you ever do that bio mine all in build, it sounds like a total shit build that never would have worked lol
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On January 26 2018 07:44 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2018 07:23 Creager wrote:On January 25 2018 22:42 WaesumNinja wrote:On January 25 2018 22:25 Charoisaur wrote:
haha during BL/Infestor era Zerg players said Zerg players are just better too and of course during the blink era protoss players were much better.
Yes they did, but in case you missed it, they were doing that only as a snarky reference to what Terrans had been saying. No, they did not. Bias isn't something that is exclusive to Terran players, so don't make a fool of yourself. Yeah, I don't know why people are still trying to discuss this nonsense. It's stupid to say that Terrans are just better players, and equally stupid to say that about Protoss/Zerg. GomTvT had Terran apologists, BL/Infestor had Zerg apologists, and the Blink era had Protoss apologists. Every time one race is OP, there will be players who fight to keep the imbalance in their favor. It's been that way since 2010, it is still that way right now, and it will continue to be that way for as long as SC2 is still played. Not rocket science.
Nah the race I play is morally superior to the other races.
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Because it's not about comp, but about the player.
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So is the balance update live yet?
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On January 30 2018 00:26 MockHamill wrote:
So is the balance update live yet?
Aren't the changes supposed to go through the PTR first? Or did i miss something and the hydra upgrade split/raven nerf/etc are supposed to go live today?
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EPT
