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On January 23 2018 08:05 NewSunshine wrote:
That Disruptor change seems... not particularly elegant. It's not the kind of thing that a player will see and go "oh, that makes perfect sense".
I agree completely. SCII has always been about simple units and simple interactions making a complex game, but this in particular seems a weird rule that doesn't really have any intuitive justification. Its pure patchwork.
Honestly, I don't even feel Disruptor drops even deserve this much attention - they are powerful but they are also a big commitment unlike Mine or Baneling drops. But anyway, thats my opinion.
I am glad we got back the regular ground attack at least.
A simpler change would be to make them take 6/8 cargo space, just like a colossus, so you can only load one per prism.
Though they are a lot smaller than a Colossus in-game, they have the same tech requirements and fullfill similar roles so I don't think it would be terribly inconsistent.
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really good changes, i like them a lot.
The Raven changes are the most interesting. We will see if the Auto-turret with 1 cast-range is enough to bring back early-game ravens. I personally always felt that the Auto-turret harassment was to easy to pull of.
the buffed Anti-Armor Missile has the potential to be completely broken, especial in TvP.
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Raven is still deleted. T still has no lategame.
At least the Z/P tears are delicious.
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On January 23 2018 18:37 Mithriel wrote:
I actually made Ravens for the repair drone and matrix, shame to lose the repair and get a turret.
Im no pro by any means, but felt like a repair for my mech army was useful and I dislike the turret in general.
Mee too, I used the repair drone frequently and it was for me a big thing using the raven.
Mech had a real lategame with the repair drone, it was not used enough to really point out being bad or not useful
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On January 23 2018 21:04 MrWayne wrote:
really good changes, i like them a lot.
The Raven changes are the most interesting. We will see if the Auto-turret with 1 cast-range is enough to bring back early-game ravens. I personally always felt that the Auto-turret harassment was to easy to pull of.
the buffed Anti-Armor Missile has the potential to be completely broken, especial in TvP.
The anti-armor missile only decreases armor not shields. Which is why this ability is really weak vs Protoss and only useful vs Zerg if you are using bio.
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If they nerf hidra and keep the nerfs on the infestor, they need to nerf skytoss accordingly.
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Why does P have 0.7 cd on micro intensive drops while Z can queue 4 overlords with banes and attack with his army and you are literally unable to defend your probes. I cannot comprehend mates
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It does not look like a patch at all. Minor adjustment. They just rolling back after mistakes for three months. Where is changes in a late game?
Tons of comments from casual players. They should start listening pros. Ask them about balance and do something like research, not random changes for ladder. They playing for money, it's a job for them. It's very important to make sense for them.
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On January 23 2018 21:48 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 21:04 MrWayne wrote:
really good changes, i like them a lot.
The Raven changes are the most interesting. We will see if the Auto-turret with 1 cast-range is enough to bring back early-game ravens. I personally always felt that the Auto-turret harassment was to easy to pull of.
the buffed Anti-Armor Missile has the potential to be completely broken, especial in TvP. The anti-armor missile only decreases armor not shields. Which is why this ability is really weak vs Protoss and only useful vs Zerg if you are using bio.
You're right about the shields but still I don't think it will be weak vs Protoss.The missile still have 30 dmg and the Protoss army tends to clump together, also without the delay it will be difficult to split against the missile.
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Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad.
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On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad.
Well Carriers are too strong when massed in all matshups (especially when combined with HT/Tempest). The short term solution is to kill them before they get there (ie when the Carrier count is low). The better solution is probably some kind of massive protest outside of Blizzard HQ until they give in and balance Carriers.
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On January 23 2018 23:59 MockHamill wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. Well Carriers are too strong when massed in all matshups (especially when combined with HT/Tempest). The short term solution is to kill them before they get there (ie when the Carrier count is low). The better solution is probably some kind of massive protest outside of Blizzard HQ until they give in and balance Carriers.
The hydra nerf does not impact lategame at all, or am I missing something ? It'll have an impact during the midgame, that may or may not carry over later on, but I don't see how this patch affects hydras' ability to deal with mass air. By the time the guy in front of you has mass air, you'll have both upgrades, meaning in the same situation as pre-patch (as far as hydras are concerned).
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Sounds good.
Protoss air needs to be adressed next.
And RT matchmaking is still rubbish.
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On January 24 2018 00:16 LoneYoShi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 23:59 MockHamill wrote:On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. Well Carriers are too strong when massed in all matshups (especially when combined with HT/Tempest). The short term solution is to kill them before they get there (ie when the Carrier count is low). The better solution is probably some kind of massive protest outside of Blizzard HQ until they give in and balance Carriers. The hydra nerf does not impact lategame at all, or am I missing something ? It'll have an impact during the midgame, that may or may not carry over later on, but I don't see how this patch affects hydras' ability to deal with mass air. By the time the guy in front of you has mass air, you'll have both upgrades, meaning in the same situation as pre-patch (as far as hydras are concerned).
that s kinda exactly what im saying, Blizz doesnt address at all the skytoss, and by nerfing hydra timings makes the one counter that im aware of (get way ahead in the midgame) harder.
Basically, i wouldnt mind at all the hydra-nerf if the Carriers or storm would have gotten hit as well
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Is the disruptor that dominant in the game? I keep seeing hundreds of adepts, marines and banelings. God damn, keep calm blizzard..
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On January 24 2018 00:16 LoneYoShi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 23:59 MockHamill wrote:On January 23 2018 23:50 Geo.Rion wrote:
Honest to god, non-trolling question:
How the hell do you deal with Protoss lategame as zerg? If anything, hydras were somewhat underpowered against protoss lategame, and they get a nerf and no change to Skytoss, or storms or archons, or any units that are givin Z problems.
It feels like zerg is on the clock against Protoss, and this change does nothing but reinforce that trend. I dont know how the win% are in the MU, what i do know is that Protoss lategame has no answers from the zerg, besides getting ridiculously ahead in the midgame.
Dont have as much time as i used to for watching VODs, but i m struggling to find lategame ZVP wins nowadays, i feel the dynamic of the MU is really bad. Well Carriers are too strong when massed in all matshups (especially when combined with HT/Tempest). The short term solution is to kill them before they get there (ie when the Carrier count is low). The better solution is probably some kind of massive protest outside of Blizzard HQ until they give in and balance Carriers. The hydra nerf does not impact lategame at all, or am I missing something ? It'll have an impact during the midgame, that may or may not carry over later on, but I don't see how this patch affects hydras' ability to deal with mass air. By the time the guy in front of you has mass air, you'll have both upgrades, meaning in the same situation as pre-patch (as far as hydras are concerned).
It doesnt actually impact lategame per se, but protoss lategame is already too strong compared to zerg and protoss will now have a much easier time reaching lategame, since the threat of the allin has been reduced by quite a bit. The ZvP winrate is very much Z favored in the midgame atm, but I bet after the patch Zerg is either gonna switch to even earlier allins (Roach Ravager builds) or just straight up lose after 20 min.
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Ye, let's lose games we don't deserve to lose for one more week... cmon at least stalker should be a hot fix, not a test map
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Does anyone have any examples of progames where the stalkers are too strong? Or where protosses defeat good terran players easily?
I'm pretty sure this stalker nerf is hyped by terran whining again. Terran is not underperforming as far as I can tell.
It rather looks like terran is still a bit too strong versus zerg and zerg is now very strong versus protoss.
While terrans can still win with pure bio mine and drops versus protoss without even using ravens or ghosts...
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On January 24 2018 02:27 Freeborn wrote:
Does anyone have any examples of progames where the stalkers are too strong? Or where protosses defeat good terran players easily?
I'm pretty sure this stalker nerf is hyped by terran whining again. Terran is not underperforming as far as I can tell.
It rather looks like terran is still a bit too strong versus zerg and zerg is now very strong versus protoss.
While terrans can still win with pure bio mine and drops versus protoss without even using ravens or ghosts...
It's not stalkers in a vacuum, it's a combination of buffed stalkers, buffed chargelots, nerfed mine drops etc. Even just the overall match-up winrates aside, the top Terrans themselves all have poor winrates against Protoss on the new patch in tournament matches. The Korean TvP meta at the moment involves lots of 2-base all-ins.
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EPT
