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On January 23 2018 09:23 pvsnp wrote:
Even with the buffs, I just don't see the Raven making a comeback tbh. 100/200 and techlab time on the starport is just too much of an investment for the utility it provides. The starport is basically the Terran robo–always overtaxed, and the opportunity cost of using it for a Raven just isn't worth it.
Even in TvT, the mass Cyclone meta means a Raven disables one Cyclone before getting shot down by the rest. The Raven needs buffs, yes, but the real issue is with the starport moreso than the Raven itself.
I agree completely. The Tech Lab/Reactor System works well on the Barracks, ok on the factory, but terrible on the Starport. The Raven will not be worth the money, and when you figure in the opportunity cost, it just doesn't make sense.
We'll give it a shot, but even nerfing the turret range is ridiculous for a unit that is this expensive. Imagine if the Viper had its abduct or blinding cloud cast range reduced to 1.
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I`m so happy for stalker nerf.
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On January 23 2018 10:03 Ransomstarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 09:23 pvsnp wrote:
Even with the buffs, I just don't see the Raven making a comeback tbh. 100/200 and techlab time on the starport is just too much of an investment for the utility it provides. The starport is basically the Terran robo–always overtaxed, and the opportunity cost of using it for a Raven just isn't worth it.
Even in TvT, the mass Cyclone meta means a Raven disables one Cyclone before getting shot down by the rest. The Raven needs buffs, yes, but the real issue is with the starport moreso than the Raven itself. I agree completely. The Tech Lab/Reactor System works well on the Barracks, ok on the factory, but terrible on the Starport. The Raven will not be worth the money, and when you figure in the opportunity cost, it just doesn't make sense. We'll give it a shot, but even nerfing the turret range is ridiculous for a unit that is this expensive. Imagine if the Viper had its abduct or blinding cloud cast range reduced to 1.
i hope Ravens still aren't good, then i can still open cloak banshee every tvt
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Cant wait for 1 cast range infested terrans or 1 cast range forcefields too! This will make the game so much more exciting!
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I just noticed how much easier they've made protoss since 4.0. Observer locking, HT auto attack, adepts continuting their commands after shade, stop function on batteries. Not saying these things are broken, but I don't think toss is the race that is most mechanically demanding right now
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 23 2018 11:39 Fango wrote:
I just noticed how much easier they've made protoss since 4.0. Observer locking, HT auto attack, adepts continuting their commands after shade, stop function on batteries. Not saying these things are broken, but I don't think toss is the race that is most mechanically demanding right now
Stop function on shield batteries and adept commands not being cancelled is just correcting inconsistencies. The other stuff, observer, HT, disruptor ease-of-use changes do feel rather unnecessary.
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On January 23 2018 11:34 Loccstana wrote:
Cant wait for 1 cast range infested terrans or 1 cast range forcefields too! This will make the game so much more exciting!
don't worry, it will hardly make a difference as even now infestors barely see usage... i wonder why :D
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What exactly is the reason for the stalker nerf? Protoss stalkers feel like a non crappy unit for the first time?
Is the ladder being flooded by stalker allins or something?
I don't see any problems in the pro games.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 23 2018 11:48 Freeborn wrote:
What exactly is the reason for the stalker nerf? Protoss stalkers feel like a non crappy unit for the first time?
Is the ladder being flooded by stalker allins or something?
I don't see any problems in the pro games.
You should watch more pro games. Stalkers are significantly too strong in PvT.
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On January 23 2018 11:48 Freeborn wrote:
What exactly is the reason for the stalker nerf? Protoss stalkers feel like a non crappy unit for the first time?
Is the ladder being flooded by stalker allins or something?
I don't see any problems in the pro games.
You need to watch more pro games. Classic and Stats have lost exactly one PvT series since 4.0
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On January 23 2018 11:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 11:39 Fango wrote:
I just noticed how much easier they've made protoss since 4.0. Observer locking, HT auto attack, adepts continuting their commands after shade, stop function on batteries. Not saying these things are broken, but I don't think toss is the race that is most mechanically demanding right now Stop function on shield batteries and adept commands not being cancelled is just correcting inconsistencies. The other stuff, observer, HT, disruptor ease-of-use changes do feel rather unnecessary.
They still further reduce the mechanical demand of the already least demanding race. Not sure why that's at all necessary
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Auto-turrets are already frustrating to put down during fights because your own or the enemy's units block the turrets by accident. Decreasing to only 1 range will make that even more difficult. I get that they were too strong as worker harass, but this just makes an already clunky unit even more frustrating to use.
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I'm concerned about the hydra nerf, this makes PvZ seem even more scary and gives Protoss an enormous incentive to build Oracles almost every game. Everything else I feel either neutral on or agree with. Honestly I liked the Auto Turret ability and I'm glad its returning, it just needs to be redesigned a bit, and a casting range nerf may be enough.
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 23 2018 11:54 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 11:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On January 23 2018 11:39 Fango wrote:
I just noticed how much easier they've made protoss since 4.0. Observer locking, HT auto attack, adepts continuting their commands after shade, stop function on batteries. Not saying these things are broken, but I don't think toss is the race that is most mechanically demanding right now Stop function on shield batteries and adept commands not being cancelled is just correcting inconsistencies. The other stuff, observer, HT, disruptor ease-of-use changes do feel rather unnecessary. They still further reduce the mechanical demand of the already least demanding race. Not sure why that's at all necessary
Because it's ugly design to have stuff like shield batteries draining their entire charge healing a gateway.
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On January 23 2018 08:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2018 08:27 jpg06051992 wrote:
Pretty big Raven changes in a way that looks like it's going to just make them all around better, which is required.
I think the Hydra change is pretty severe but Protoss is suffering pretty badly in the match up at the moment, so obviously some type of nerf was on the table.
Protoss changes all seem decent except for the Purifier which should just be flat out removed from the game. The changes are super inelegant and really reflect the balance teams lack of a clue on how to make the unit good.
Here's an idea..
Put the Reaver...in the game...
Problem solved, Protoss players already have a clue on how the unit works and the unit was able to be balanced in BW relatively well, no reason it shouldn't be implemented to replace the garbage unit that is the Purifier. Reavers with non-retarded scarab AI sounds pretty broken.
Just give it its usual range BUT make the scarabs explode quick.
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Errrh...they need to watch closely into anti missle radius buff.
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Looks like the tournaments are still forced to use the new map pool...
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On January 23 2018 12:46 geokilla wrote:
Looks like the tournaments are still forced to use the new map pool...
Backtracking at this point would be absolutely insane. All the pros have been practicing customs on the new maps ever since it was announced.
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I'm hyped about the new maps but I wish Ascension to Aiur would stay and Blackpink would be removed. Don't really like that map.
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Why do you want reaver in the game when you have colossus? Don't they both have the same function?
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EPT
