EPT2017 GSL Season 3 Qualifiers - Page 37
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SNSeigifried
United States1640 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On June 26 2017 04:34 Durnuu wrote: I wonder how you came to that conclusion. I don't think anyone said it in this thread, and even then, they're certainly not the majority. The main argument in favor of Koreans playing in WCS was that they were better than the foreigners, but now that Koreans are losing in the GSL qualifiers suddenly we need a region lock. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On June 26 2017 05:05 Solar424 wrote: The main argument in favor of Koreans playing in WCS was that they were better than the foreigners, but now that Koreans are losing in the GSL qualifiers suddenly we need a region lock. the top tier koreans are better than foreigners, the low-tier koreans are worse than the top foreigners. Top tier koreans playing in WCS NA and EU and taking all the spots hurt the local scene. Top tier foreigners playing in GSL and taking the spots of the low-tier koreans hurt the local scene. If you don't understand that then I can't help you. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On June 26 2017 05:14 Charoisaur wrote: the top tier koreans are better than foreigners, the low-tier koreans are worse than the top foreigners. Top tier koreans playing in WCS NA and EU and taking all the spots hurt the local scene. Top tier foreigners playing in GSL and taking the spots of the low-tier koreans hurt the local scene. If you don't understand that then I can't help you. First, Noregret isn't a top tier foreigner. If Impact can't beat him he probably doesn't deserve to be in Code S. The Koreans playing in WCS had basically no restrictions, but the foreigners playing in GSL have to move to Korea. There is also a lot more at play than foreigners playing in GSL, like the death of Proleague, that killed the Korean scene. It's more likely that the death of the Korean scene lead to foreigners qualifying, not the other way around. There was no concern for the NA scene when the Koreans took all of the Ro16 spots, but 5 Ro32 spots being taken away lead to calls to region lock everything. I guess horseshoe theory applies to SC2 as well. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
the top tier koreans are better than foreigners, the low-tier koreans are worse than the top foreigners. Top tier koreans playing in WCS NA and EU and taking all the spots hurt the local scene. Top tier foreigners playing in GSL and taking the spots of the low-tier koreans hurt the local scene. If you don't understand that then I can't help you. 5 foreigners, who are unlikely to win the event will not hurt the Korean scene. In fact it is likely to increase interest in the event and help the scene. You should also notice Koreans have more events as it is. Apart from the GSL they have another wcs league with 3 seasons. They had an IEM in Korea and the IEM in Shanghai is also likely to be an internal Korean affair due to the way qualifiers are organized. For years Koreans have pocketed huge paychecks from teams (foreign players earned 10x less) and won most of the prize money + had a whole infrastructure organized to improve gameplay. Now with this partial region lock for the last 18 months (where we still had 4-5 koreans competing in WCS last season) the foreigners have earned some money, they are more motivated and can for the first time try to compete against Koreans playing full time, even though 18 months is not enough to catch up 6 years of what could be considered unfair competition. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
5 foreigners, who are unlikely to win the event will not hurt the Korean scene. Yet it is a fact. Problem is not about Gumiho facing noregret, but the lack of new players because they take their spot, back in the days it wasnt a problem because Kespa teams paid them, but now to be full time they have to go ro32 severals times, and with top4 foreigners who steal their spots for their pleasure because "wow it's so cool i'm in GSL", they cant. So the scene isnt renewed. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16063 Posts
On June 26 2017 05:30 Solar424 wrote: First, Noregret isn't a top tier foreigner. If Impact can't beat him he probably doesn't deserve to be in Code S. So you also think that foreigners who weren't able to beat jjakji, San, Stardust, Golden etc didn't deserve to play in their respective leagues? On June 26 2017 05:34 Kafka777 wrote: 5 foreigners, who are unlikely to win the event will not hurt the Korean scene. 5 struggling koreans who don't earn much money getting no GSL money this season doesn't hurt the korean scene? | ||
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SNSeigifried
United States1640 Posts
On June 26 2017 05:47 Charoisaur wrote: So you also think that foreigners who weren't able to beat jjakji, San, Stardust etc didn't deserve to play in their respective leagues? Don't forget Arthur/TheStC/Washed-Up NesTea/Hack/Apocalypse/Sage/HwangSin. Also their was a point in time in WCS NA where we had ByuL/TaeJa/Polt/Jaedong/HyuN/aLive/Bomber/Heart/HerO/Oz/Revival and this was the year these players were actually good -__- | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
5 struggling koreans who don't earn much money getting no GSL money this season doesn't hurt the korean scene? No, it will have a small impact on 5 Korean players, but may increase viewership and attract sponsors. If all top WCS players came to qualify for GSL, well ... I dont know (by the way, I would love to see that, it would be insane). However the whole purpose of the region lock is to balance out the differences and eventually remove such region locks, if the game survives beyond 2018 in terms of WCS. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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swissman777
1106 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On June 26 2017 05:40 DieuCure wrote: Yet it is a fact. Problem is not about Gumiho facing noregret, but the lack of new players because they take their spot, back in the days it wasnt a problem because Kespa teams paid them, but now to be full time they have to go ro32 severals times, and with top4 foreigners who steal their spots for their pleasure because "wow it's so cool i'm in GSL", they cant. So the scene isnt renewed. But most of the new players lost to Koreans and not foreigners. Elazer beating that amateur protoss is one of the only ones. If Impact/Zest are slumping and can't qualify that's not anyone's problem but their own. NoRegret didn't "take a spot of an amateur", he beat Impact, a well established Korean pro who was worse than him on the day. Impact himself beat one of the only amateurs there | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
On June 26 2017 04:29 Solar424 wrote: So according to this thread 16+ Koreans in WCS NA didn't hurt the scene at all, but 5 foreigners in GSL have killed the entire Korean scene. Makes sense. Exactly. The whiners' defense have no logic and they still have the "foreigners are bad!!" mentality. It's the Global Starcraft League, not Korean Starcraft Leauge. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
Now we barely have enough high level active Koreans to populate a Code S. That's actually a scary decline over 4 years if you ask me. On June 26 2017 07:29 ilikeredheads wrote: Exactly. The whiners' defense have no logic and they still have the "foreigners are bad!!" mentality. It's the Global Starcraft League, not Korean Starcraft Leauge. It's World Championship Series, not Foreigner Championship Series, too. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On June 26 2017 08:23 Kafka777 wrote: All these whines appear from persons "who watch only GSL" they are elite and more clever. Now wake up, WCS has come to Korea, tables have turned. Now deal with it. From my perspective it looks like Korea has fell down close to WCS level. Hell, from such perspective, even 2011/2012 Terran resurgence does not look weird in the slightest. | ||
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MrWayne
219 Posts
there are 3x GSL and 2xSSL this year with 489740$ price pool, Do you know how many of such semi regionlocked events held in Germany or France or USA this year? exactly 0. Players from this regions need to compete with the hole world(except korea) in 4 WCS events with a price pool of 400000$ THAT´s not fair so don´t argue with the poor korean scene. And for those who say "Blizzard killed SC2 esport", Without Blizz it would be 20.000$ global prize money instead of 2.000.000$. | ||
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Kafka777
361 Posts
From my perspective it looks like Korea has fell down close to WCS level. In terms of skill, Sc is in the highest level ever. For obvious reasons. Foreign scene has improved. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On June 26 2017 05:47 Charoisaur wrote: So you also think that foreigners who weren't able to beat jjakji, San, Stardust, Golden etc didn't deserve to play in their respective leagues? The problem is that at the time when jjakji, San, Stardust, and Golden played, they were still fairly good. San and Stardust in particular were beating the top level Koreans of that time in order to place very highly in many tournaments. There were a lot of Koreans playing in WCS EU and NA such that a lot of spots would be taken from foreigners (NA) specifically, and it caused few foreigners to do well in the ro8 or later. And it is true that a number of these Koreans were the "lower level" Koreans, but they were generally good enough to compete at a decent level against other Korean Koreans. So they were not good enough to win at the highest level, but they were good enough to compete. But right now, there are very few of the "low level" Koreans that would do all that well in the WCS competitions. Most Koreans who didn't qualify and a number of ro32 Koreans would not do all that well in in the WCS tournaments, and it would only be upper level Koreans who would win. So the situations are very different. If Neeb and Showtime and Nerchio were able to play online and come for a couple days and win everything in Korea, then we would have a problem. Like, for instance, Polt, TRUE, violet, Hydra were fine because they actually lived in NA and competed here so that they could compete in WCS, And similarly, those in Korea are actually living in Korea in order to compete there. | ||
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ParksonVN
Australia370 Posts
On June 26 2017 04:41 SNSeigifried wrote: I love how many people are bitching that Zest/ByuL didn't qualify yet Elazer/Scarlett/MajOr did when they are better players. Also when Scarlett/MajOr/NoRegreT/PtitDrogo/Kelazhur/SortOf played in the GSL qualifiers last season no 1 bitched but now that they actually qualified its a problem seems legit LOL. Lol are you sure these players are better than ByuL ? Think twice | ||
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