• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 01:30
CEST 07:30
KST 14:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments2[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon10[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes170BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch2Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time StarCraft II 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes SC4ALL: A North American StarCraft LAN Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 19 Stellar Fest KSL Week 80 StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly)
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL ro8 Upper Bracket HYPE VIDEO Starcraft: Destruction expansion pack? StarCraft - Stratospace. Very rare expansion pack StarCraft Stellar Forces had bad maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch [ASL20] Ro16 Group C
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Too Many LANs? Tournament Ov…
TrAiDoS
i'm really bored guys
Peanutsc
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1560 users

Balance Update - 3rd March; Corruptor, Mine, Hydra and Rea…

Forum Index > SC2 General
192 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
sneakyfox
Profile Joined January 2017
8216 Posts
March 03 2017 11:31 GMT
#21
On March 03 2017 20:13 ParksonVN wrote:
After watching Terran players got destroyed at GSL post liberator nerf, i'm quite surprised that Blizzard still proceed to this wm nerf. Even the very top Terrans couldn't stop adept+phoenix lately, how are we supposed to deal with that combo after wm nerf ?


This.

They really need to slow down this balance update mania. There will always be heaps of players complaining that IMBA this, IMBA that when they loose. Blizzard needs to take a longer look at things and, most importantly, wait for the meta to stabilize before they mess with stuff.
"I saw what sneakyfox wrote on TL.net and it made me furious" - PartinG
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary485 Posts
March 03 2017 11:36 GMT
#22
is there an ETA when this patch is going live?
Why so serious?
ilikeredheads
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1995 Posts
March 03 2017 11:42 GMT
#23
It's almost as if the people at Blizzard don't watch any recent GSL games at all!!!
reneg
Profile Joined September 2010
United States859 Posts
March 03 2017 11:51 GMT
#24
On March 03 2017 20:31 sneakyfox wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 20:13 ParksonVN wrote:
After watching Terran players got destroyed at GSL post liberator nerf, i'm quite surprised that Blizzard still proceed to this wm nerf. Even the very top Terrans couldn't stop adept+phoenix lately, how are we supposed to deal with that combo after wm nerf ?


This.

They really need to slow down this balance update mania. There will always be heaps of players complaining that IMBA this, IMBA that when they loose. Blizzard needs to take a longer look at things and, most importantly, wait for the meta to stabilize before they mess with stuff.


I can understand they are in a rough position. When these changes were all announced, I saw post after post saying, 'these are so small, don't waste time testing them, just put them in'

Now everyone else on the other half is coming out and complaining they are so fast.

I, for one, am in favor of most of these. We'll see how it works out, and I don't necessarily think it's going to be all gloom and doom, after people start to adjust.
moose...indian
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-03 12:02:23
March 03 2017 11:54 GMT
#25
So, assuming PvZ (on the Ground) was pretty much equal in HOTS, we ended up with the following in LoTV (compared to HotS):

Protoss.
Colossi - nerfed to the ground, not worth its price and plain unusable.
Sentry and Stalker - indirectly nerfed by introducing a ravager and lurker.
Zealot - regardless of a mediocre buff, hardcountered by baneling.
Adept - a unit that can't be used outside of allins/initial harass and is pretty much a protoss version of hellion for pvz. Nerfed numerous times after the release. Tbh the only unit that prevents zerg from having a 95% winrate in the MU.
Disruptor - don't even mention that piece of trash.

Meanwhile, zerg:
Ravager - a tier 1 unit that competely shuts down ANY protoss allin, opens a huge variety of allins for zerg, can be used on any stage of the game, vs any unit composition (even vs air), allows zerg to steamroll protoss tier 3 ground armies in the mix with banelings.
Baneling - got an HP buff, and with colosi completely gone makes zealots/adepts completely worthless starting from midgame.
Hydra - got a speed buff, HP buff, upgrades combined, and with colosi completely gone makes all other protoss ground units completely worthless on any stage of the game.
Lurker - Not as threatening but allows a whole new playstyle for a zerg.
SH - unit that stays in the game for the unknown reason and which true potential i believe is yet to be fully discovered, costs like a roach, moves like a speedling, evaporates nexuses in a blink of an eye.

So, In HotS, protoss relied on either colosi or sentry-stalker play. And zerg somehow managed to have a 50% rate vs that. In LotV both these styles are extinct due to ravager/colosi nerf. So protoss is left with severely nerfed ground army vs newly introduced zerg units and old zerg units significantly buffed. How does that make any fcking sense is mystery to me.

Now, you can whine about Carriers.


Less is more.
PharaphobiaSC
Profile Joined April 2016
Czech Republic457 Posts
March 03 2017 11:55 GMT
#26
On March 03 2017 20:11 avilo wrote:
Making mech worse and worse patch after patch


it has been publicly know that your brain is not capable enough to learn more than one passive build as a terran. Anyone with your free time could get far far ahead of you skillwise, mechanic wise and knowledge wise...

And yet you still suprised noone cares about your opinion in 2017...

P.S: Is not an insult, just not everyone can be smart, and don't start with that GM all races thing. 1st its NA ladder, 2nd you never went above rank 100, 3rd anyone could do it with being fulltime nothing

User was warned for this post
twitch.tv/pharaphobia
PharaphobiaSC
Profile Joined April 2016
Czech Republic457 Posts
March 03 2017 11:56 GMT
#27
On March 03 2017 20:54 insitelol wrote:
So, assuming PvZ (on the Ground) was pretty much equal in HOTS, we ended up with the following in LoTV (compared to HotS):

Protoss.
Colossi - nerfed to the ground, not worth its price and plain unusable.
Sentry and Stalker - indirectly nerfed by introducing a ravager and lurker.
Zealot - regardless of a mediocre buff, hardcountered by baneling.
Adept - a unit that can't be used outside of allins/initial harass and is pretty much a protoss version of hellion for pvz. Nerfed numerous times after the release. Tbh the only unit that prevents zerg from having a 95% winrate in the MU.
Disruptor - don't even mention that piece of trash.

Meanwhile, zerg:
Ravager - a tier 1 unit that competely shuts down ANY protoss allin, opens a huge variety of allins for zerg, can be used on any stage of the game, vs any unit composition (even vs air), allows zerg to steamroll protoss tier 3 ground armies in the mix with banelings.
Banleing - got an HP buff, and with colosi completely gone makes zealots/adepts completely worthless starting from midgame.
Hydra - got an HP buff, and with colosi completely gone makes all other protoss ground units completely worthless on any stage of the game.
Lurker - Not as threatening but allows a whole new playstyle for a zerg.
SH - unit that stays in the game for the unknown reason and which true potential i believe is yet to be fully discovered, costs like a roach, moves like a speedling, evaporates nexuses in a blink of an eye.

So, In HotS, protoss relied on eaither colosi or sentry stalker play. And zerg somehow managed to have a 50% rate vs that. In LotV both these styles are extinct due to ravager/colosi nerf. So protoss is left with severely nerfed ground army vs newly introduced zerg units and old zerg units significantly buffed. How does that make any fcking sense is mystery to me.

Now, you can whine about Carriers.




Not fun part about hots is that even when zerg scouting the 2base crap protoss thorwed in... it was 50/50% win/loss even knowing whats going on...
twitch.tv/pharaphobia
SKNielsen1989
Profile Blog Joined January 2017
174 Posts
March 03 2017 11:59 GMT
#28
Reaper
-KD8 Grenade cooldown increased from 7 to 14.

Too late. Way too late.

I wonder how BlizzCon would have played out with this change and better maps :thinking: oh well what's done is done and it's not like ByuN is totally awful either.
saalih416
Profile Joined April 2016
19 Posts
March 03 2017 12:04 GMT
#29
every change will ruin another aspect of the game. too many changes happening too often. Either that, or the game is just fundamentally flawed.
insitelol
Profile Joined August 2012
845 Posts
March 03 2017 12:06 GMT
#30
On March 03 2017 20:56 PharaphobiaSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 20:54 insitelol wrote:
So, assuming PvZ (on the Ground) was pretty much equal in HOTS, we ended up with the following in LoTV (compared to HotS):

Protoss.
Colossi - nerfed to the ground, not worth its price and plain unusable.
Sentry and Stalker - indirectly nerfed by introducing a ravager and lurker.
Zealot - regardless of a mediocre buff, hardcountered by baneling.
Adept - a unit that can't be used outside of allins/initial harass and is pretty much a protoss version of hellion for pvz. Nerfed numerous times after the release. Tbh the only unit that prevents zerg from having a 95% winrate in the MU.
Disruptor - don't even mention that piece of trash.

Meanwhile, zerg:
Ravager - a tier 1 unit that competely shuts down ANY protoss allin, opens a huge variety of allins for zerg, can be used on any stage of the game, vs any unit composition (even vs air), allows zerg to steamroll protoss tier 3 ground armies in the mix with banelings.
Banleing - got an HP buff, and with colosi completely gone makes zealots/adepts completely worthless starting from midgame.
Hydra - got an HP buff, and with colosi completely gone makes all other protoss ground units completely worthless on any stage of the game.
Lurker - Not as threatening but allows a whole new playstyle for a zerg.
SH - unit that stays in the game for the unknown reason and which true potential i believe is yet to be fully discovered, costs like a roach, moves like a speedling, evaporates nexuses in a blink of an eye.

So, In HotS, protoss relied on eaither colosi or sentry stalker play. And zerg somehow managed to have a 50% rate vs that. In LotV both these styles are extinct due to ravager/colosi nerf. So protoss is left with severely nerfed ground army vs newly introduced zerg units and old zerg units significantly buffed. How does that make any fcking sense is mystery to me.

Now, you can whine about Carriers.




Not fun part about hots is that even when zerg scouting the 2base crap protoss thorwed in... it was 50/50% win/loss even knowing whats going on...

I'm not saying it was fun and "right" but it WAS in the game, and somehow zergs managed to live with that. Now, protoss is robbed of its core units/playstyles w/o any compensation. Or should i accept carriers as a substitute?
Less is more.
Twine
Profile Joined June 2012
France246 Posts
March 03 2017 12:30 GMT
#31
Rofl if this patch goes through I'm 100% stopping this game. No point in playing a bad race ... blizz can't accept that only KR terrans are strong atm, it's like they agree that proxy oracles/pylon rush and 1 base ravagers rushes are legit skill-wise but WM are way too strong xD
#1 Bomber fan | Jin Air best KT
Asturas
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Finland587 Posts
March 03 2017 12:45 GMT
#32
Yes, yes, please go back to WoL and just nerf Terran to the ground because literally ONE progamer can win most of his TvZs with Reapers!
And TvP mine nerf? Really?

Because nerfing Terran is always the answer.

------------
Personally, I believe these changes are ridiculous or at least too extensive.
There are no boundaries, that's the final conclusion.
Popparockz
Profile Joined April 2011
United States40 Posts
March 03 2017 12:46 GMT
#33
Finally the corruptor buff I've always wanted.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10011 Posts
March 03 2017 13:04 GMT
#34
theyre still buffing hydras?
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 03 2017 13:12 GMT
#35
On March 03 2017 22:04 TT1 wrote:
theyre still buffing hydras?

Yeah this is the "redesign" zerg players got teased with. Hurray!
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
TheKhyira
Profile Joined May 2012
115 Posts
March 03 2017 13:13 GMT
#36
We already talked lengths about the WM nerf against chargelots and adepts and it´s still a horrendous change.Post lib nerf combined with more time to explore various openings the early tank pushes are becoming more and more of a rarity so that just puts us back to pre 3.8 TvP where protoss was slightly favoured but now we have nerfed libs and mines? Lategame it´s hard to say how things are yet, bc´s are stronger but the tempest AA is still a hard counter and carriers are way better. But getting there isn´t very easy.

Nerfing reaper grenades isnt a bad idea but im a bit baffled we don´t see it combined with something like a revert of the queen AA range or something else to open up more early game TvZ harras. Without reaper cheeses 2 minute 3 hatch with 60+ drones before units is extremely strong and there´s almost no way to stop it.
xTJx
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil419 Posts
March 03 2017 13:14 GMT
#37
Regarding ZvT, there's 2 more things that need to be looked into:

Autoturret behind mineral line: Seems pretty dumb that zerg has to pull a whole mineral line every 30 seconds because of 2 ravens and nothing can be done until they get spire. Also it can be used as a distraction to helion runby.
Helion opening already gives terran the edge since it forces earlier units out for zerg, and terran can go fast third CC without worrying. Now with raven trading energy for drones and mining time, it might be too much.

1 base ravager: It's becoming popular fast and it seems pretty strong.
No prejudices, i hate everyone equally.
TheKhyira
Profile Joined May 2012
115 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-03-03 13:27:19
March 03 2017 13:26 GMT
#38
On March 03 2017 22:14 xTJx wrote:
and terran can go fast third CC without worrying.
1 base ravager: It's becoming popular fast and it seems pretty strong.


You´re essentially saying the opposite.
xTJx
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil419 Posts
March 03 2017 13:29 GMT
#39
On March 03 2017 22:26 TheKhyira wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 22:14 xTJx wrote:
and terran can go fast third CC without worrying.
1 base ravager: It's becoming popular fast and it seems pretty strong.


You´re essentially saying the opposite.


You know that reaper can scout right? I'm talking about 2 different scenarios.
No prejudices, i hate everyone equally.
InfCereal
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada1759 Posts
March 03 2017 13:48 GMT
#40
On March 03 2017 22:12 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 03 2017 22:04 TT1 wrote:
theyre still buffing hydras?

Yeah this is the "redesign" zerg players got teased with. Hurray!


After all Zerg buffs got reverted in 3.8, we finally get 10 more health for hydras!

Hurrah!
Cereal
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
21:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #16
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft436
StarCraft: Brood War
Movie 891
Icarus 15
League of Legends
JimRising 687
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K584
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox491
Westballz0
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor118
Other Games
summit1g8851
ViBE190
XaKoH 185
NeuroSwarm140
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV17
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• practicex 32
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 37
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling81
Upcoming Events
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2h 30m
RSL Revival
4h 30m
Classic vs TBD
WardiTV Invitational
5h 30m
Online Event
10h 30m
Afreeca Starleague
1d 4h
Barracks vs Mini
Wardi Open
1d 5h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 10h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
Clem vs Reynor
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-18
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.