EPTGuMiho still owed DH prize money from Invasion eSport - Pa…
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blamekilly
466 Posts
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maitiky
Czech Republic54 Posts
On January 18 2017 15:42 critique wrote: I agree with this. GuMiho is Korean, and this certainly concerns business in Korea, so Korean courts have jurisdiction/venue. Service might be an issue, but I would hope he at least has an email address for sebou/invasion. For the non-lawyers; if this happened in the US, you would just go down to small claims court (or your state's equivalent) and file a claim against the person or company that owed you money. The argument that it's not worth the money to sue actually works in favor of the plaintiff (the person suing). It's almost always not worth the money to hire a lawyer to present a defense, whereas it is pretty easy for the plaintiff to fill out the paperwork and present the case without a lawyer. In my opinion Korean courts don't have jurisdiction in this kind of lawsuit. Yes, GuMiho is Korean, but the contract (if there ever was one) was made with Swiss person in God knows which country... My point is, court jurisdiction in international lawsuits is set usually by a) the place, where the contract was made, or b) the place, where the damage was dealt. Or there is sometimes option c) jurisdiction has a court in the country of defendant (not the plaintiff). All of this means that if GuMiho would actually want to file a claim against Sebou, it'd have to be done either in Switzerland or somewhere else, where the contract was made (but almost certainly not in Korea). This would mean travel costs, high likely court fees and not to even mention getting a legal representative and translator (I know that court should provide a translator to a party that is not native in their country, but you still need to find a translator first for your own to debate the case with some lawyer that knows the legal situation in that country). Hope you get my points, I haven't used my 'legal English' since way back at university, so it get pretty rusty. | ||
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
but, given that they dropped the ball on something as low cost as that.. i can't say it's too surprising that they've come up short in how they've handled these much bigger deals to do with paying their players as they promised? i mean, given that it /is/ eSports where we are sadly used to this kind of shit. I mean, i get it - i sponsored a local tournament once and it ended up taking me an extra few months to regain the money i had had, due to some unforeseen issues that came up, but i got around to it. you can't just... not pay people what you owe them. anywho, just wanted to chime in with another angle of insight in to the character of invasion esports. can furnish proof of the PM exchange if anyone actually gives two shits about seeing that. it's a few years old now, i think. | ||
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Akaann
Switzerland82 Posts
So I don't know about this story, either Gumiho and Choya never even talked to a swiss lawyer because they think they can't do anything, or they have no proof of their claim at all, second case would make them liars... In any case it seems extremliy naiv to me, to give the entire prize money to a private person that will pay hotels and travels and then pay you the rest. Just get the whole prize and let that person make an invoice with the expenditures and then pay that invoice... | ||
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TaKeTV
Germany1200 Posts
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Mattidute
Netherlands232 Posts
On January 18 2017 20:36 TaKeTV wrote: I don't understand why tournaments would pay out the money to the team. While there might be some reasons, you can mostly always pay directly to the player. By the way - might be that TaKeTV is sometimes a bit slow on payments for different reasons - sometimes also because players are busy / slow themselves but we usually always pay the player. That should be the way to go too. Paying the money to teams instead of players means less money from the price money goes to taxes from what i remember. | ||
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Hermicus
Switzerland1 Post
I'm not a lawyer but I'm swiss, and I can say one thing for certain: If Gumiho has any proof that he is owed the money he can get it easily. We have this thing called enforcment (Betreibung), to open it you have to pay CHF100 as far as I know. There is a department just following these enforcments, they will send you an invoice which if you don't pay it, they come to your house with the police and take away stuff like your car or whatever you have with the worth of the money you owe, after that they sell that stuff to get the money they need for their efforts and to pay the claim. Of course I don't know exact legal implications, but I know certainly that I would never ever don't pay a bill here in Switzerland, because you gonna get fucked. This is how this country works... So I don't know about this story, either Gumiho and Choya never even talked to a swiss lawyer because they think they can't do anything, or they have no proof of their claim at all, second case would make them liars... In any case it seems extremliy naiv to me, to give the entire prize money to a private person that will pay hotels and travels and then pay you the rest. Just get the whole prize and let that person make an invoice with the expenditures and then pay that invoice... Hi there, also swiss here. The process is not that easy. When an enforcement is filed in Switzerland you get a letter regarding the matter (From who are you enforcement and on what claim). You have then like 7 days to file an objection and the whole enforcement is stopped. Then it starts actually with a meeting with a judge and the involved parties, however it is not a court case but more a try to finish the case with settlement. Even if you win the court case, you might have troubles to get the money because you cannot find the person. | ||
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xtorn
4060 Posts
Whoever this sebou moron is, i wish him warmly a lot of jail time Also I completely agree with Take. Pay the player directly. Or at least a significant percentage split | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4040 Posts
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TaKeTV
Germany1200 Posts
On January 18 2017 20:53 Mattidute wrote: Paying the money to teams instead of players means less money from the price money goes to taxes from what i remember. No difference for us. As long as we have to pay outside of Germany, we pay the same tax no matter if private person or business. | ||
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[Svall]Granis
Sweden94 Posts
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shabby
Norway6402 Posts
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 18 2017 05:58 Ctone23 wrote: It would be a shame if people hired lawyers to sue Invasion, only to find out it's not really a company at all. Then who pays for the lawyer? From their website: Did they create the non-profit? See steps here: https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/france/working/starting-a-business/non-profit-associations Assuming they had a bank account, pretty sure Sebou posted on reddit that there is a team account, they would of had to declare the non-profit. I checked the French business registry here: https://www.infogreffe.fr/documents-officiels/procedures-demarches-infogreffe.html and found nothing under "invasion esport" and nothing resembling them when I searched for only "invasion" EDIT: I also looked at the Swiss registry and found no results. TL;DR Is Invasion eSport an organization at all? Non-profit organizations (called "Association Loi 1901" in France) won't be found in a business registry, but here : http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/ As you can see if you search "Invasion", Invasion eSports has been officially declared on 18/10/2014. Their declared headquarters are right there. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On January 18 2017 22:27 TaKeTV wrote: No difference for us. As long as we have to pay outside of Germany, we pay the same tax no matter if private person or business. It has a big impact for DH prize money though. It's just the swedish law. Pay the player directly, 40% tax, pay a company, in this case the team, it's just 10% tax or something. If players want to receive DH prize money directly, without going through a team, they should register their own company. Best case would of course be, if teams could just be trusted  . | ||
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abala
France1 Post
In an interview [1], they mentioned an Alcohol business that support them. Does someone know what brand is it and how KingSebou ( It's the guy who disappeared, right ?) is related to them ? They mention another sponsor called librit.fr and being 5 peoples. As far as I know, nobodies of the staff as commented about this. It will also be nice to have comments of well known figures, like DeMusliM who defend the guy in the first place. KingSebou was so talkative on twitter, that we should be able to collect enough evidence for a lawyer or at least spread some love to this business partner. [1] http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/471089-invasion-esport-interview ~ | ||
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On January 19 2017 01:09 OtherWorld wrote: Non-profit organizations (called "Association Loi 1901" in France) won't be found in a business registry, but here : http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/ As you can see if you search "Invasion", Invasion eSports has been officially declared on 18/10/2014. Their declared headquarters are right there. Thank you for finding this! | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 19 2017 02:09 Musicus wrote: It has a big impact for DH prize money though. It's just the swedish law. Pay the player directly, 40% tax, pay a company, in this case the team, it's just 10% tax or something. If players want to receive DH prize money directly, without going through a team, they should register their own company. Best case would of course be, if teams could just be trusted .Or if the money would go to a player's union... Less tax + trustworthiness | ||
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boxerfred
Germany8360 Posts
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graNite
Germany4434 Posts
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Ctone23
United States1839 Posts
On January 19 2017 01:09 OtherWorld wrote: Non-profit organizations (called "Association Loi 1901" in France) won't be found in a business registry, but here : http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/ As you can see if you search "Invasion", Invasion eSports has been officially declared on 18/10/2014. Their declared headquarters are right there. Do you know of any way to check if Invasion has filed to dissolve? TCM Gaming quietly dissolved a while back, leaving any potential claims against them impossible. | ||
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