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On January 19 2017 01:09 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2017 05:58 Ctone23 wrote:On January 18 2017 05:20 AlexGPunkt wrote:
Are there any swiss Laywers here in the community?
Suing this piece of shit cannot be that hard. If a case like that would accur in germany, its quite easy to sue someone. And the Lawyers can be paid with the winning, or is even paid by the losing side. It would be a shame if people hired lawyers to sue Invasion, only to find out it's not really a company at all. Then who pays for the lawyer? From their website: Invasion eSport is a french non-profit association managed by five members. Did they create the non-profit? See steps here: https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/france/working/starting-a-business/non-profit-associationsA non-profit association created in France can function without being declared. In this case it does not exist as a legal entity and falls under the collective ownership of all its members.
However, the association must be declared if a bank account is needed, if it collects membership fees or arranges fundraising, or if the members undertake any legal action or buy or sell on its behalf. Assuming they had a bank account, pretty sure Sebou posted on reddit that there is a team account, they would of had to declare the non-profit. I checked the French business registry here: https://www.infogreffe.fr/documents-officiels/procedures-demarches-infogreffe.html and found nothing under "invasion esport" and nothing resembling them when I searched for only "invasion" EDIT: I also looked at the Swiss registry and found no results. TL;DR Is Invasion eSport an organization at all? Non-profit organizations (called "Association Loi 1901" in France) won't be found in a business registry, but here : http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/As you can see if you search "Invasion", Invasion eSports has been officially declared on 18/10/2014. Their declared headquarters are right there.
Jesus, that looks like a run down house in the ghetto.
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On January 19 2017 07:32 Ctone23 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2017 01:09 OtherWorld wrote:On January 18 2017 05:58 Ctone23 wrote:On January 18 2017 05:20 AlexGPunkt wrote:
Are there any swiss Laywers here in the community?
Suing this piece of shit cannot be that hard. If a case like that would accur in germany, its quite easy to sue someone. And the Lawyers can be paid with the winning, or is even paid by the losing side. It would be a shame if people hired lawyers to sue Invasion, only to find out it's not really a company at all. Then who pays for the lawyer? From their website: Invasion eSport is a french non-profit association managed by five members. Did they create the non-profit? See steps here: https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/france/working/starting-a-business/non-profit-associationsA non-profit association created in France can function without being declared. In this case it does not exist as a legal entity and falls under the collective ownership of all its members.
However, the association must be declared if a bank account is needed, if it collects membership fees or arranges fundraising, or if the members undertake any legal action or buy or sell on its behalf. Assuming they had a bank account, pretty sure Sebou posted on reddit that there is a team account, they would of had to declare the non-profit. I checked the French business registry here: https://www.infogreffe.fr/documents-officiels/procedures-demarches-infogreffe.html and found nothing under "invasion esport" and nothing resembling them when I searched for only "invasion" EDIT: I also looked at the Swiss registry and found no results. TL;DR Is Invasion eSport an organization at all? Non-profit organizations (called "Association Loi 1901" in France) won't be found in a business registry, but here : http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/As you can see if you search "Invasion", Invasion eSports has been officially declared on 18/10/2014. Their declared headquarters are right there. Do you know of any way to check if Invasion has filed to dissolve? TCM Gaming quietly dissolved a while back, leaving any potential claims against them impossible.
Hard to determine. Afaik, officializing a dissolution by having it published in the Journal Officiel is not an obligation in France (unlike officializing a creation), and one that a potentially shady organization definitely won't fulfill.
Honestly, it's pretty hard to move on from here, without (a) knowing exactly the organization's statutes (les statuts de l'association, a document that you're legally bound to write when you create a non-profit organization, that details how shit works, who can do what, etc ; and most importantly, it probably details what happens in case of a dissolution : where does the money go ?) and/or (b) having direct contact with someone who knew the team's management (friends, etc).
(a) can be potentially obtained through the Préfecture de Seine-Saint-Denis, since that's where it was declared.
(b) is easier or harder to do, depending on how much effort you're willing to undertake. As a first step, I think checking with Invasion's sponsors might be useful (they had contact with the team's management, else they wouldn't be sponsors). This is even truer considering that I have high suspicion that three of their sponsors (LibrIT, Four Seasons Property and the alcohol brand that was never mentioned) are somehow linked to the team's creators ; probably family ties. LibrIT because it was there since the begining ; Four Seasons Property and the alcohol brand because, well, luxury brands usually just do not invest in eSports (and have zero, zero, zero interest in doing so), meaning this sponsorship was motivated by personal passion/pleasure.
EDIT : after a quick research, Four Seasons Property, through its administrative president Grégory Lyonnet, is indeed linked to a alcohol-related business, "Luxury Spirits SARL", a society whose goal is to "import, export, buy and sell wine, liquors, spirits, alcohol, and alcohol-free drinks". [1] [2]
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On January 19 2017 21:51 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2017 07:32 Ctone23 wrote:On January 19 2017 01:09 OtherWorld wrote:On January 18 2017 05:58 Ctone23 wrote:On January 18 2017 05:20 AlexGPunkt wrote:
Are there any swiss Laywers here in the community?
Suing this piece of shit cannot be that hard. If a case like that would accur in germany, its quite easy to sue someone. And the Lawyers can be paid with the winning, or is even paid by the losing side. It would be a shame if people hired lawyers to sue Invasion, only to find out it's not really a company at all. Then who pays for the lawyer? From their website: Invasion eSport is a french non-profit association managed by five members. Did they create the non-profit? See steps here: https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/france/working/starting-a-business/non-profit-associationsA non-profit association created in France can function without being declared. In this case it does not exist as a legal entity and falls under the collective ownership of all its members.
However, the association must be declared if a bank account is needed, if it collects membership fees or arranges fundraising, or if the members undertake any legal action or buy or sell on its behalf. Assuming they had a bank account, pretty sure Sebou posted on reddit that there is a team account, they would of had to declare the non-profit. I checked the French business registry here: https://www.infogreffe.fr/documents-officiels/procedures-demarches-infogreffe.html and found nothing under "invasion esport" and nothing resembling them when I searched for only "invasion" EDIT: I also looked at the Swiss registry and found no results. TL;DR Is Invasion eSport an organization at all? Non-profit organizations (called "Association Loi 1901" in France) won't be found in a business registry, but here : http://www.journal-officiel.gouv.fr/association/As you can see if you search "Invasion", Invasion eSports has been officially declared on 18/10/2014. Their declared headquarters are right there. Do you know of any way to check if Invasion has filed to dissolve? TCM Gaming quietly dissolved a while back, leaving any potential claims against them impossible. Hard to determine. Afaik, officializing a dissolution by having it published in the Journal Officiel is not an obligation in France (unlike officializing a creation), and one that a potentially shady organization definitely won't fulfill. Honestly, it's pretty hard to move on from here, without (a) knowing exactly the organization's statutes ( les statuts de l'association, a document that you're legally bound to write when you create a non-profit organization, that details how shit works, who can do what, etc ; and most importantly, it probably details what happens in case of a dissolution : where does the money go ?) and/or (b) having direct contact with someone who knew the team's management (friends, etc). (a) can be potentially obtained through the Préfecture de Seine-Saint-Denis, since that's where it was declared. (b) is easier or harder to do, depending on how much effort you're willing to undertake. As a first step, I think checking with Invasion's sponsors might be useful (they had contact with the team's management, else they wouldn't be sponsors). This is even truer considering that I have high suspicion that three of their sponsors (LibrIT, Four Seasons Property and the alcohol brand that was never mentioned) are somehow linked to the team's creators ; probably family ties. LibrIT because it was there since the begining ; Four Seasons Property and the alcohol brand because, well, luxury brands usually just do not invest in eSports (and have zero, zero, zero interest in doing so), meaning this sponsorship was motivated by personal passion/pleasure. EDIT : after a quick research, Four Seasons Property, through its administrative president Grégory Lyonnet, is indeed linked to a alcohol-related business, "Luxury Spirits SARL", a society whose goal is to "import, export, buy and sell wine, liquors, spirits, alcohol, and alcohol-free drinks". [1] [2]
hmm yeah if they aren't required to provide notice if they dissolve then it doesn't seem like much can be done. Typically the money left over (they would clear out the account before) would go towards the state / government, provided no claim against them is made in the notice period. However, as you say, doesn't look like notice is required.
In the grand scheme of this, the dissolution is a moot point. It seems that the sponsors of Invasion have some personal connection with the managers, as you say, Four Seasons Property as a sponsor? Not likely..
It makes more sense to me now what's going on, Invasion was a passion project that was losing too much money and as a result the cord was pulled. It's not very realistic that anything comes from this, and I'm sure the powers that be fully realized that, which is sad 
Still very much the wild west.
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thats pretty bad, how does this guy get away with this?
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Any way they could do some kind of class action lawsuit?
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Sad to see that people are still this shady almost 7 years into SC2.
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EPT
