EPTBalance Update - Dec 8 - Page 4
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Soke
United States790 Posts
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BronzeKnee
United States5226 Posts
On December 09 2016 13:49 Sapphire.lux wrote: I fear mass tempests will return as a hard counter PvMech but we'll see. Yeah... this is just a strange retreat on so many fronts. On December 09 2016 07:01 Hider wrote: Interesting quote: Funny how it took them so long to realize that "fun" micro is related to unit-movement, not pressing buttons for the sake of it. Now let's get rid of Forcefields and increase cooldowns of Corrosive Bile and Reaper bombs. I might quote you at a later time. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
I have a 75% winrate vs Protoss massing pure swarmhost off 2 base. There is nothing the opponent can do to respond because i swarmhost bomb a base, and then escape thru nydus network and keep doing it till they die. | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
I'm not a fan of balance whines, but seriously, what is my late game? How do I beat a full power composition from Terran or protoss? And I'm not even talking about the fantasy end game ones. Just a full 200 supply late game army? | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 09 2016 13:20 Qwyn wrote: Why wouldn't they introduce the new hydra buff at the same time? I don't really want to play against mech/skytoss cancer while having no new tools...The root of all evil is still not being addressed... The dream is what Blade says... The reality had better be at least enough HP to survive a liberator shot no matter the upgrades >.>. If I can't use hydras in ZvT after the NEXT "patch-patch" I think I'm done... There are coruptors, vipers, ravagers and hidras with superb mobility. Stop asking for 1a solutions against units that trade ALL of their mobility for fire power. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17873 Posts
On December 09 2016 13:49 Soke wrote: Yeah. Until that mysterious buff comes into play. Hydras will once again fade back into irrelevance and into being a pretty bad unit. The only answer for carriers zerg will have is to hope and pray with infestors and corruptors. the way DK discussed it i think the Hydra buff is arriving quickly... like less than 4 weeks. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:23 Sapphire.lux wrote: There are coruptors, vipers, ravagers and hidras with superb mobility. Stop asking for 1a solutions against units that trade ALL of their mobility for fire power. What u're saying is wrong and pretty much funny as u cry since years for a-move AntiAir for mech Terran. LOL And it's clear to me that u never faced Protoss on 3.8 patch while playing Zerg. Also uo forget that hydras are only little bit faster on creep. That's all. Carriers, just when they reach number of 5 are pretty much unstopabble. And knowing this from pro players feedback, Blizzard decides to nerf core midgame antiair unit for Zerg, basically reverting it to the same shit as it was at 3.7. Now. This changes are Huuuuge nerfs for Zerg. In the same time, Blizzard buffs Tempests as if SkyTosss wouldn't be OP already. That's hilarious. And the most funny thing is that this patch didn't cool down, and you people whine about more nerfs for Zerg- Nerf burrowed infestor casting!, Nerf Swarmhosts!, Nerf Corrosive Bile! Nerf Vipers more! For fuck sake...Just delete Zerg already huh? I wonder if Blizzard listens to whiners as you all,. what would have left from the Swarm. This is ballshit. Zerg now is basically worse than in 3.7. The only thing they buffed is Infestor burrow casting. I don't count SH because Blizzard said already at teh beginning of the patch that it will be nerfed. So let's resume- Broodlord- nerfed, Ultralisks- nerfed, Hydras buffed, than reverted as nothing changed...In the same time Terran is all about buffing, as same as Protoss. Thanks Blizzard. And all we asked for is buffing some midgame for Zerg to give us the swarmy feeling back in exchange for nerfing lategame. Now u ruined it all. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17873 Posts
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:41 JimmyJRaynor wrote: if u r indeed correct i bet you a pretty quick Hydra buff provides the midgame buff you seek. I really don't know if 10hp buff will be enough to compensate, especially with all that skyToss and mech buffing. They will pretty much die the same, being still fragile as fuck. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:35 hiroshOne wrote: What u're saying is wrong and pretty much funny as u cry since years for a-move AntiAir for mech Terran. LOL And it's clear to me that u never faced Protoss on 3.8 patch while playing Zerg. Also uo forget that hydras are only little bit faster on creep. That's all. Carriers, just when they reach number of 5 are pretty much unstopabble. And knowing this from pro players feedback, Blizzard decides to nerf core midgame antiair unit for Zerg, basically reverting it to the same shit as it was at 3.7. Now. This changes are Huuuuge nerfs for Zerg. In the same time, Blizzard buffs Tempests as if SkyTosss wouldn't be OP already. That's hilarious. And the most funny thing is that this patch didn't cool down, and you people whine about more nerfs for Zerg- Nerf burrowed infestor casting!, Nerf Swarmhosts!, Nerf Corrosive Bile! Nerf Vipers more! For fuck sake...Just delete Zerg already huh? I wonder if Blizzard listens to whiners as you all,. what would have left from the Swarm. This is ballshit. Zerg now is basically worse than in 3.7. The only thing they buffed is Infestor burrow casting. I don't count SH because Blizzard said already at teh beginning of the patch that it will be nerfed. So let's resume- Broodlord- nerfed, Ultralisks- nerfed, Hydras buffed, than reverted as nothing changed...In the same time Terran is all about buffing, as same as Protoss. Thanks Blizzard. And all we asked for is buffing some midgame for Zerg to give us the swarmy feeling back in exchange for nerfing lategame. Now u ruined it all. I was asking for a simple factory unit that's good at AA, not a unit that has insane dps against both ground and air with all the mobility and range and hp. Since the patch i also dislike how cheap interceptors are as i feel it takes a way away from fighting them: killing interceptors. Tempests, Ravens and most air units that can be massed and be a standing army that mostly destroys ground armies are also something i've "cried" about for years as i feel it makes for less interesting gameplay to both watch and play, from either side. There are more nerfs coming to Zerg you are right here, Infestors and SHs are next. Hopefully fallowed by Ravens and Interceptor cost. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
Well, i really hope that you're not right about that. Zerg already with these changes is the weakest race. I would agree with all that changes if Blizz would bring 4 larva back, so the Zerg's strength would lie in early economy advantage and production advantage. If not- Zerg with all that buffs for Terran and Protoss would be unplayable. So either stop nerfing Zerg units, or buff macro. Zerg supposed to be weaker in units department but stronger in production and eco. Now it's all messed up. And if u demand Infestor nerf- i want HighTemplars and Ravens nerfed too. As Nerchio said- the most OP caster in sc2 is HT not Infestors or Vipers. As for SH nerf- i don't care about this unit. Especially that Blizzard said themselves that SH is destined to be nerfed. This 3.8 buff was released just to force players to ever use this shit unit. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1208 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:35 hiroshOne wrote: What u're saying is wrong and pretty much funny as u cry since years for a-move AntiAir for mech Terran. LOL And it's clear to me that u never faced Protoss on 3.8 patch while playing Zerg. Also uo forget that hydras are only little bit faster on creep. That's all. Carriers, just when they reach number of 5 are pretty much unstopabble. And knowing this from pro players feedback, Blizzard decides to nerf core midgame antiair unit for Zerg, basically reverting it to the same shit as it was at 3.7. Now. This changes are Huuuuge nerfs for Zerg. In the same time, Blizzard buffs Tempests as if SkyTosss wouldn't be OP already. That's hilarious. And the most funny thing is that this patch didn't cool down, and you people whine about more nerfs for Zerg- Nerf burrowed infestor casting!, Nerf Swarmhosts!, Nerf Corrosive Bile! Nerf Vipers more! For fuck sake...Just delete Zerg already huh? I wonder if Blizzard listens to whiners as you all,. what would have left from the Swarm. This is ballshit. Zerg now is basically worse than in 3.7. The only thing they buffed is Infestor burrow casting. I don't count SH because Blizzard said already at teh beginning of the patch that it will be nerfed. So let's resume- Broodlord- nerfed, Ultralisks- nerfed, Hydras buffed, than reverted as nothing changed...In the same time Terran is all about buffing, as same as Protoss. Thanks Blizzard. And all we asked for is buffing some midgame for Zerg to give us the swarmy feeling back in exchange for nerfing lategame. Now u ruined it all. Eh...Yeah Terran got buffed for sure, but don't forget two huge nerfs to Protoss: Adept shade range got reduced to 2, which is a pretty big nerf Tempest ground range reduced from 15 to 10 (though with damage increase vs ground) and supply increased from 4-6 These are not small nerfs by any means As for Zerg, they got a huge buff with casting while burrowed Infestors, and Hydras still retain the speed buff. The Zerg nerfs: Broodlord range reduced by 1. Ultralisk armor changed from 1 to 2, and the upgrade gives one two less armor Also, viper blinding cloud decreased to 6 seconds from 10 Hydra still maintains speed buff I'm just going to say that the ultralisks actually got buffed in the midgame and minorly nerfed in the late game. I feel like minus one range to broodlords and minus one overall armor to ultralisks really shouldn't bother you that much. I mean, please tell me how one less range on your broodlords and one less armor to ultralisks hurt you that much. The viper one is a bit more substantial, but it's not as major as the tempest or the adept nerf. Besides, if you go back and look at the tournament distribution of wins and what not, Zerg was not doing poorly by any means. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:58 hiroshOne wrote: "There are more nerfs coming to Zerg you are right here, Infestors and SHs are next. Hopefully fallowed by Ravens and Interceptor cost." Well, i really hope that you're not right about that. Zerg already with these changes is the weakest race. I would agree with all that changes if Blizz would bring 4 larva back, so the Zerg's strength would lie in early economy advantage and production advantage. If not- Zerg with all that buffs for Terran and Protoss would be unplayable. So either stop nerfing Zerg units, or buff macro. Zerg supposed to be weaker in units department but stronger in production and eco. Now it's all messed up. And if u demand Infestor nerf- i want HighTemplars and Ravens nerfed too. As Nerchio said- the most OP caster in sc2 is HT not Infestors or Vipers. As for SH nerf- i don't care about this unit. Especially that Blizzard said themselves that SH is destined to be nerfed. This 3.8 buff was released just to force players to ever use this shit unit. Nerchio has his opinions, i like listening more to what PIG and other Zergs have to say. The Infestor has the potential to completely destabilize Terran bio because there is a problem of detection there. As a mech player i'm not that affected. I already said i hate mass ravens and HTs i think are strong but balanced; they don't make other strategies for Z/T impossible, like the Viper does to mech. | ||
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Qwyn
United States2781 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:23 Sapphire.lux wrote: There are coruptors, vipers, ravagers and hidras with superb mobility. Stop asking for 1a solutions against units that trade ALL of their mobility for fire power. Uhm....ALL of their mobility for enough firepower to ONE SHOT a 100/50 unit with 0 upgrades? Coupled with a 13 RANGE unit that also does incredible against hydras...There's actually no micro potential for hydras against liberators...at all. Other than "don't make them." Which is what everyone already does ~_~. Hmmm...I'm really asking a lot to be able to fight even somewhat decently against liberators with hydras without making a T3 spellcaster or (what you're suggesting) switching to a completely different tech path that Zerg have already been doing for 6 years... What if I want to play Sauron Zerg and just stay on Lair all day? I guess I'm fucked if I make hydralisks and the enemy starts to go tank liberator. Especially if he gets the range upgrade...Which is exactly, exactly the case. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On December 09 2016 05:06 SlammerSC2 wrote: Mass Tempest viability - check Tempest is 6 supply - didn't check. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
With Ultralisks nerf, now marines and marauders deal 100% more damage to them. In the scenario when ultra has plating and 3/3 and bio has 3/3 upgrades, ultralisks can be kited easily and killed. It's like before 3.8- if u had only 2/2 on ultra with plating they still would die from BIO. But i don't mind that nerfs. But to be honest i don't feel as Blizzard compensated this. Burrowed casting for Infestors seems a way to do this. If Zerg didn't go poorly, now it will. Especially in ZvP with Carriers wrecking everything. Without Viper- mech would wreck Zerg mainly because of strong tanks. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 09 2016 16:19 Qwyn wrote: Uhm....ALL of their mobility for enough firepower to ONE SHOT a 100/50 unit with 0 upgrades? Coupled with a 13 RANGE unit that also does incredible against hydras...There's actually no micro potential for hydras against liberators...at all. Other than "don't make them." Which is what everyone already does ~_~. Hmmm...I'm really asking a lot to be able to fight even somewhat decently against liberators with hydras without making a T3 spellcaster or (what you're suggesting) switching to a completely different tech path that Zerg have already been doing for 6 years... What if I want to play Sauron Zerg and just stay on Lair all day? I guess I'm fucked if I make hydralisks and the enemy starts to go tank liberator. Especially if he gets the range upgrade...Which is exactly, exactly the case. I understand your frustration as i've been advocating for different playstyles to be viable in this game, but you can't have a unit that kills the shit out of hellions, hellbats, mines when you have obs, tanks and all air. Don't you see how broken that is? It's like the HOTS Warhound plus anti-air. | ||
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insitelol
845 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:35 hiroshOne wrote: And the most funny thing is that this patch didn't cool down, and you people whine about more nerfs for Zerg- Nerf burrowed infestor casting!, Nerf Swarmhosts!, Nerf Corrosive Bile! Nerf Vipers more! For fuck sake...Just delete Zerg already huh? I wonder if Blizzard listens to whiners as you all,. what would have left from the Swarm. This is ballshit. Zerg now is basically worse than in 3.7. The only thing they buffed is Infestor burrow casting. I don't count SH because Blizzard said already at teh beginning of the patch that it will be nerfed. So let's resume- Broodlord- nerfed, Ultralisks- nerfed, Hydras buffed, than reverted as nothing changed...In the same time Terran is all about buffing, as same as Protoss. Thanks Blizzard. And all we asked for is buffing some midgame for Zerg to give us the swarmy feeling back in exchange for nerfing lategame. Now u ruined it all. Man, im pissed off about my race too, but your whine is way overboard. Zerg is by no means the weakest race, before or after the patch (and recent changes). Hydra is insanely OP with 7 range. That buff dind't make ANY FUCKING sense. It's just plain stupid. Im quite impressed that they reverted it though (because its blizzard... you know they "designed" units like SH, liberator... etc). Clinging to hydras range as the only option to deal with carriers makes no sense as well, because that's justifying one op unit to counter another op unit. And they will nerf the cost, believe me. I don't know anything about playing vs mech as zerg though, but there is definitely nothing to whine about in PvZ (after the carrier nerf). Zerg was absolutely fine in PvZ before 3.8. And now you got nerfed adept and buffed baneling/infestor/SH/potentially hydra HP buff. Don't even get me started on queens range that never should be implemented in the frist place. Zerg is in the best place ever since LoTV (aside from mech - but i doubt there are any real problems there). | ||
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gab12
Poland147 Posts
On Hydras i agree that some health buff would be cool to see, jsut test it as this season is mostly about testing anyways. | ||
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gab12
Poland147 Posts
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