EPTEDIT: STOP buffing air units Blizzard, please!
Balance Update - Dec 8 - Page 6
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
EDIT: STOP buffing air units Blizzard, please! | ||
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QuinnTheEskimo
Germany55 Posts
I also think it is not productive to blame the whole balance of the game on 1-2 units and their interactions and everybody underestimates the importance of maps. On maps with wide open entrances to the nat it is relatively difficult for T to take their nat against adepts or mass lings. But this doesn't immediately apply that adepts and lings are broken. It's a feature of the map and people have to deal with it. A good map is one where T can get an advantage back for living into the next phase of the game. This also doesn't mean T has broken units later. It just balances (!) the initial struggle. Things are only broken if they are always good, no matter the map layout and no matter what the opponent does. Mass Reapers for example. It is either insanely good or good enough to stay on par with your opponent. Of course you can always derp it, but you never end up in a worse position just because you built the second rax. (Often not even with the third, but that can be local to my regions of the ladder.) Same thing with Protoss' fast expand. You can only get behind by not doing it. On the other hand, Z immediately feels the effect of building one set of lings vs. 3 sets of lings. But these are minor things. In my oppinion the one and absolutely most broken change, that has ever been done to SC2, was the new economy in LOTV. It was introduced because peo ple felt matches needed to spring into action quicker. All it did was brake the game thorougly. We hat strong 8 10 and 12 minute timings as far back as WOL. Just as there were important events between the 6 and 8 minute mark. These numbers haven't really changed all that much. Remeber, that this was when an in-game minute was less than a wall-clock-time minute. Blizz gave us 12 workers to start out with so that we get to that action faster. On the other hand, they make everything that is not early expanding (not action!) a bad idea. Consequently, the game is slowed down again. This change completely failed its purpose. Yet, it destroyed 90% of one-base plays, 80% of two-base plays and of course everything in between. The game really only begins when everybody has 2-3 tech trees established. It used to be a big deal when a player established new tech (IMO most visible in ZvZ), but it is not in LOTV. "Getting there" is not a problem anymore for 80% of the tech tree. Maybe Blizz tried to address this, by making the remaining 20% awfully OP, I don't know. One simple way to address this might be to have 4000 gas in the geysers at the starting location, but have no geysers at the natural expansion. By slowing down gas mining considerably chosing tech and getting tech units gains a lot more importance and it really motivates you to get a third. At the same time you (can) have the large influx of minerals of a second base, which is what actually allows for fast expandions and big bases. Make tech great again! *scnr* | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
How was it possible to apply these balance changes without a patch? | ||
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Gwavajuice
France1810 Posts
On December 10 2016 00:48 paralleluniverse wrote: I do not recall seeing a patch. How was it possible to apply these balance changes without a patch? same, I just suppose it was the fastest patching ever and I was looking somewhere else.... | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1387 Posts
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Thouhastmail
Korea (North)876 Posts
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StatixEx
United Kingdom779 Posts
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On December 10 2016 01:10 StatixEx wrote: am i missing something or have i not seen a viper for ages, let alone the use of bc, so lets make this ability like totally pointless You haven't seen it because you haven't seen mech, and you haven't seen mech because of that ability. | ||
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Dingodile
4139 Posts
On December 10 2016 01:01 Thouhastmail wrote: Keep Hydra's 7 range and nerf its flat damage; from 12 to 8(+4, light) then they are incredibly weak in ZvZ. takes a age to kill one overlord or one roach. not to mention about ZvP and ZvT. | ||
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Majick
416 Posts
On December 09 2016 07:27 blade55555 wrote: I wish Blizzard would put Hydra's to 1 supply and nerf stats/cost to compensate. Would be soo nice. I like this idea  | ||
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Beelzebub1
1005 Posts
Oh yea, David Kim watches mass Reaper in early game ZvT and says, "Hell yea, this is what the people want." | ||
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Ganseng
Russian Federation473 Posts
run in, kill stuff with yamato, teleport back repair, recharge, repeat build up a huge fleet and go in for the kill seems unstoppable in tvt very hard to stop as protoss or zerg too | ||
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The_Last_Terran
9 Posts
On December 09 2016 15:35 hiroshOne wrote: What u're saying is wrong and pretty much funny as u cry since years for a-move AntiAir for mech Terran. LOL And it's clear to me that u never faced Protoss on 3.8 patch while playing Zerg. Also uo forget that hydras are only little bit faster on creep. That's all. Carriers, just when they reach number of 5 are pretty much unstopabble. And knowing this from pro players feedback, Blizzard decides to nerf core midgame antiair unit for Zerg, basically reverting it to the same shit as it was at 3.7. Now. This changes are Huuuuge nerfs for Zerg. Where were you in 2016 ? Zerg has the lead in the Korean Ladder and the European ladder... I m just asking why people bullshit on Zerg while they dominate 3.7 patch, ffs fungal burrow is irritating for players, they have to scan each step moving on creep. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1162 Posts
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On December 10 2016 03:03 The_Last_Terran wrote: Where were you in 2016 ? Zerg has the lead in the Korean Ladder and the European ladder... I m just asking why people bullshit on Zerg while they dominate 3.7 patch, ffs fungal burrow is irritating for players, they have to scan each step moving on creep. Zerg was non existant on Korean Ladder this year. In Europe yes. But in Korea Zerg was dead race. So i wonder where have u been this whole year to make so bs statements. | ||
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The_Last_Terran
9 Posts
Dark, SOlar... do u know ? | ||
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CrayonSc2
United States267 Posts
Ravagers are fast enugh witg 6 range and a little less hp (conpared to roach) it can easily replace hydra by giving it aa. And for 100/100, people are more willing to take that trade. Not to mention they are 3 supply if i remember correctly. Edit: or just keep everything the same and give a lair upgrade for AA. Cause you know. 3 rax reaper. | ||
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Vanadiel
France961 Posts
On December 09 2016 22:43 SpecKROELLchen wrote: 2.) what counters carriers? Tell the z players how they should play? The argument "dont let protoss get to that point" should not be valid. Otherwise the game is poorly designed imo. I don't really agree, it wouldn't be so much a problem if getting to that point you needed 5++ base, but that is clearly not the case at the moment, it is way too easy to get carrier and that is the actual problem. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On December 10 2016 04:27 CrayonSc2 wrote: Just remove hydras and let ravagers have anti air. Also be lair tech. For a 100/100 unit, they are not efficient unless you hit biles. You can remove hydra den and put in lurker den also. All these changes to hydras is just going to make it a modified roach with anti air. Ravagers are fast enugh witg 6 range and a little less hp (conpared to roach) it can easily replace hydra by giving it aa. And for 100/100, people are more willing to take that trade. Not to mention they are 3 supply if i remember correctly. Edit: or just keep everything the same and give a lair upgrade for AA. Cause you know. 3 rax reaper. This is a really good idea imo (although I doubt blizzard will do this). I always felt that sc2 Zerg was all over the place and that's because of the Roach. Blizzard wanted to add the Roach, but the hydras were iconic so they kept them in as well. What if Roaches evolved into Ravagers that can shoot air OR into the lurkers. Have ravagers be a lair requirement, and lurkers be a lair requirement that require the roach warren to morph into a lurker den first. When sc1 transitioned into BW, Blizzard gave each races units that would help them overcome their weaknesses. But with SC2, it's just random units that had a "wow cool!!!" factor that seems all over the place. I don't know, Zerg units just doesn't seem to synergize well to me. Let's not forget about the Corruptors... can we re-design this unit? | ||
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xTJx
Brazil419 Posts
We just have to wait another 5 years and they'll make zerg better. | ||
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