EPTContext:
- KeSPA average salary report (at that time, average SC2 salary was 50m won)
- BW salaries for top 30 players in 2010 (Flash 250m won, Jaedong 220m won, 11/30 players with salary more than 70m won)
Korean SC2 Salary Cap Collusion Revealed
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4 Posts
Context: - KeSPA average salary report (at that time, average SC2 salary was 50m won) - BW salaries for top 30 players in 2010 (Flash 250m won, Jaedong 220m won, 11/30 players with salary more than 70m won)
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18453 Posts
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Cmon
38 Posts
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
Well for that last one there's two parts. 1. No ProLeague games  2. Players no longer have stable income and it will be difficult for some to continue being progamers without it. Having a salary cap (which is ubiquitous in sports) spreads the money a team has to more players. How would we address this if it was revealed from the opposite side? "Report: Flash receives $120,000 yearly salary, next highest teammate receives $20,000". We'd be bothered by that too right? | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:06 Cmon wrote: per month? per year? for everyone? only for the good one? Likely for everyone and that's a per year figure. | ||
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dNa
Germany591 Posts
The point is, when there's no salary cap the big teams can afford all the good players, making things like pro league boring as fuck. Also good luck trying to renew sponsor ship deals when all the good players left your team. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
I mean it's not like MVP could compete with JinAir or SKT on the money side so it protect them. It should have been public but I don't think it is that mush of a problem. I am far more concern for those on the lower end not those making 60K a year. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:11 Probe1 wrote: Having a salary cap (which is ubiquitous in sports) spreads the money a team has to more players. How would we address this if it was revealed from the opposite side? "Report: Flash receives $120,000 yearly salary, next highest teammate receives $20,000". We'd be bothered by that too right? I mean that's what used to happen in BW. And we weren't bothered by it. Because the people making the most money were literally that much better and that much more deserving in terms of in-game play and tournament results. It's hard for someone who started with SC2 to understand, because SC2 is much more volatile than BW, and there are far more tournaments so even the most consistent people don't look quite as impressive as they would have in BW. But try to imagine TBLS like Mvp in his prime, TaeJa in his prime, Life in his prime, etc. Winning almost everything consistently and also destroying in ProLeague. Would you say they're not entitled to the most money? | ||
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Probe1
United States17920 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:18 207aicila wrote: I mean that's what used to happen in BW. And we weren't bothered by it. Because the people making the most money were literally that much better and that much more deserving in terms of in-game play and tournament results. It's hard for someone who started with SC2 to understand, because SC2 is much more volatile than BW, and there are far more tournaments so even the most consistent people don't look quite as impressive as they would have in BW. But try to imagine TBLS like Mvp in his prime, TaeJa in his prime, Life in his prime, etc. Winning almost everything consistently and also destroying in ProLeague. Would you say they're not entitled to the most money? I have been watching and playing Brood War for longer than the six years I have been registered on TL. I'm not buying the SC2 kids just don't understand argument. Like I said salary caps aren't that unusual. What is unusual is Starcraft is a 1v1 game and these players have opportunities to increase their substantial compensation through performance. If they are the best then they bring home tournament winnings. Plus in some players cases they could extend their success to personal endorsements and careers outside BW. I don't have an obstinate opinion about how a team league should be run. But either way is really fine and not unusual. It is at least nothing I'm upset over. | ||
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dNa
Germany591 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:18 207aicila wrote: I mean that's what used to happen in BW. And we weren't bothered by it. Because the people making the most money were literally that much better and that much more deserving in terms of in-game play and tournament results. It's hard for someone who started with SC2 to understand, because SC2 is much more volatile than BW, and there are far more tournaments so even the most consistent people don't look quite as impressive as they would have in BW. But try to imagine TBLS like Mvp in his prime, TaeJa in his prime, Life in his prime, etc. Winning almost everything consistently and also destroying in ProLeague. Would you say they're not entitled to the most money? Well they do get the most money from tournament winnings alone then  I'm sure teams have a budget for salary and if you pay one guy more you also have to take from the other players. As said before I totally understand how that is an issue for those literal gods you mentioned, but the thing is eSports isn't the football premier league, there's a budget for everything. And as I mentioned before, if there was no cap, the big teams would swoop up all the great players :x | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:28 Probe1 wrote: I have been watching and playing Brood War for longer than the six years I have been registered on TL. I'm not buying the SC2 kids just don't understand argument. Like I said salary caps aren't that unusual. What is unusual is Starcraft is a 1v1 game and these players have opportunities to increase their substantial compensation through performance. If they are the best then they bring home tournament winnings. Plus in some players cases they could extend their success to personal endorsements and careers outside BW. I don't have an obstinate opinion about how a team league should be run. But either way is really fine and not unusual. It is at least nothing I'm upset over. Just to clarify I wasn't talking about salary caps because as far as I'm aware they did not exist in BW. I was only talking about the fact that Flash in his prime made like $300k / year and everyone else on his team made peanuts compared to that. And it wasn't something to be concerned about because he was not only KT's brightest star but also the best player in the game period. | ||
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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r_gg
141 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:38 207aicila wrote: Just to clarify I wasn't talking about salary caps because as far as I'm aware they did not exist in BW. I was only talking about the fact that Flash in his prime made like $300k / year and everyone else on his team made peanuts compared to that. And it wasn't something to be concerned about because he was not only KT's brightest star but also the best player in the game period. Well, on the video, Flash does say he was still earning six figure salary when he retired so it was still kinda true. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:14 dNa wrote: While I understand that people want to be paid according to their abilities I think KeSPA had their reasons for that. I vaguely remember some kind of story of how teams went broke trying to afford salaries in WC3. I'll Edit this post after doing some research and coming back to you on that. The point is, when there's no salary cap the big teams can afford all the good players, making things like pro league boring as fuck. Also good luck trying to renew sponsor ship deals when all the good players left your team. This so much. Also paying several millions for a player is ridicilous. Look at football, hockey etc, even actors, they get paid way to much for what they do. | ||
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Garemie
United States248 Posts
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Thaniri
1264 Posts
$60k is very good for playing SC2. Maybe it was a low figure in 2012, but in 2013+ it's surprising to me that people were making that in the first place. This is based off of the rumour that huk was making $100k + bonus when he signed onto EG. SC2 players shouldn't be earning very much due to viewership problems. DoTA/CS:GO/LoL teams pay their players $100k+. This is based off of a s1mple rant about garbage NA teams that pay their players $5k a month (I think it was TSM). The god damn coaching position for TL's counterstrike team offered $100k. There's money to be had where the sponsors are putting it. InControl mentioned that several tournaments were told that the sponsors no longer wanted to feature SC2 in their events due to viewership. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
Still, if you are gonna have a cap you have to make it public imo. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6234 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:11 Probe1 wrote: Is it really? $60,000 USD is a very comfortable salary. What would be better for everyone? Why are we upset ProLeague is gone? Well for that last one there's two parts. 1. No ProLeague games 2. Players no longer have stable income and it will be difficult for some to continue being progamers without it. Having a salary cap (which is ubiquitous in sports) spreads the money a team has to more players. How would we address this if it was revealed from the opposite side? "Report: Flash receives $120,000 yearly salary, next highest teammate receives $20,000". We'd be bothered by that too right? What happens in reality is that Flash will make 60k while the ither guy will still make 20k. Why pay the other guy more when he isn't worth it. They money won't be spread to more players it'll go back to the teams. It's a disgusting way to do business and illegal everywhere except in some sports apparently. | ||
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RoninKenshin
Canada97 Posts
On November 22 2016 15:11 Probe1 wrote: Is it really? $60,000 USD is a very comfortable salary. What would be better for everyone? Why are we upset ProLeague is gone? What most people have to realize before addressing this is that while $60,000 is a comfortable salary for most people in regular life, it's a garbage cap for these pros. Why? The majority of pros starts their career in middle school or high school. Due to the rigorous training schedule required to reach the top, meaning the status of Pro-gamer rather than the top of the Pro-gamers, most pros sacrifice their education. They may graduate, but they will not be able to score on on standardized tests which will allow them to enter top schools that lead to good jobs. This is especially serious in Korea where the University graduated from can be the main criteria for job searches. I know there's a few exceptions like Polt or Stephano, but most people cannot cannot balance both Pro SC2 and school. After playing for 10 years and retiring from SC2, there are really very few options. Some liked personalities will be able to get jobs in gaming like MC, although that may be temporary as well. I remember seeing a "where are they now" article a long time ago, and it was incredibly bleak. A couple really lucky ones will get a job with their sponsored company. The probability of getting another job that comes even close to $60k a year or one that will eventually even give raises to that amount is probably close to zero. The cap is garbage because getting into the career of competitive anything is essentially gambling that you can get to the top, make a living off of it, and coast through almost the rest of your life on it. You sacrifice all your other options for this risk. You don't just sacrifice your past and present, you sacrifice your future as well. If every player was paid $60,000 a year, then sure, that's fine. That would mean getting into pro-gaming would be a safe and comfortable job that yielding great reward for the few that could reach pro-gamer status. But instead there are tonnes of pro-gamers who got paid peanuts or even nothing. They're going to finish their 10 year careers with nothing in the bank and no future, and the top players are going to finish their career with some money in the bank and no future. Also the idea that the cap was there to prevent the rich teams from stealing all the players is ridiculous. Nothing stopped SKT from stealing every single player that showed the slightest bit of potential. Caps only work if all the teams have at least some money, and we know that a lot were tapped or didn't care to invest more. All the caps did was hurt the futures of the players. | ||
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