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On November 22 2016 16:02 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2016 15:11 Probe1 wrote:Is it really? $60,000 USD is a very comfortable salary. What would be better for everyone? Why are we upset ProLeague is gone? Well for that last one there's two parts. 1. No ProLeague games  2. Players no longer have stable income and it will be difficult for some to continue being progamers without it. Having a salary cap (which is ubiquitous in sports) spreads the money a team has to more players. How would we address this if it was revealed from the opposite side? "Report: Flash receives $120,000 yearly salary, next highest teammate receives $20,000". We'd be bothered by that too right? What happens in reality is that Flash will make 60k while the ither guy will still make 20k. Why pay the other guy more when he isn't worth it. They money won't be spread to more players it'll go back to the teams. It's a disgusting way to do business and illegal everywhere except in some sports apparently.
This is also true.
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With how little interest SC2 had in Korea I don't think it matters that much. Can't imagine the team would be willing to pay big bucks regardless.
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they still top it off with prize money from tournaments and dont forget game fixing
User was warned for this post
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a lot smaller than the rumors back in the day from foreigners claiming they made bank. title is also kinda click-baity
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On November 22 2016 16:12 RoninKenshin wrote:
The cap is garbage because getting into the career of competitive anything is essentially gambling that you can get to the top, make a living off of it, and coast through almost the rest of your life on it. You sacrifice all your other options for this risk. You don't just sacrifice your past and present, you sacrifice your future as well.
If this is accurate then team should be banned from approaching under 18s. Because that's a decision only an adult can be allowed to make. Like drinking, sex, joining the army etc.
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"Colluded', "scummy" .. what? The stupid top-heavy pay is detrimental to every human activity where it appears, so working against it is only good. The scene was never drowning in money and there is no reason for the little there was to be all sucked up by wannabe superstars like Flash. I understand why he would feel the need to talk about it, because for him it was a loss, but for the vast majority of players, it was probably pretty good.
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On November 22 2016 16:12 RoninKenshin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2016 15:11 Probe1 wrote:
Is it really? $60,000 USD is a very comfortable salary. What would be better for everyone? Why are we upset ProLeague is gone?
What most people have to realize before addressing this is that while $60,000 is a comfortable salary for most people in regular life, it's a garbage cap for these pros. Why? The majority of pros starts their career in middle school or high school. Due to the rigorous training schedule required to reach the top, meaning the status of Pro-gamer rather than the top of the Pro-gamers, most pros sacrifice their education. They may graduate, but they will not be able to score on on standardized tests which will allow them to enter top schools that lead to good jobs. This is especially serious in Korea where the University graduated from can be the main criteria for job searches. I know there's a few exceptions like Polt or Stephano, but most people cannot cannot balance both Pro SC2 and school. After playing for 10 years and retiring from SC2, there are really very few options. Some liked personalities will be able to get jobs in gaming like MC, although that may be temporary as well. I remember seeing a "where are they now" article a long time ago, and it was incredibly bleak. A couple really lucky ones will get a job with their sponsored company. The probability of getting another job that comes even close to $60k a year or one that will eventually even give raises to that amount is probably close to zero. The cap is garbage because getting into the career of competitive anything is essentially gambling that you can get to the top, make a living off of it, and coast through almost the rest of your life on it. You sacrifice all your other options for this risk. You don't just sacrifice your past and present, you sacrifice your future as well. If every player was paid $60,000 a year, then sure, that's fine. That would mean getting into pro-gaming would be a safe and comfortable job that yielding great reward for the few that could reach pro-gamer status. But instead there are tonnes of pro-gamers who got paid peanuts or even nothing. They're going to finish their 10 year careers with nothing in the bank and no future, and the top players are going to finish their career with some money in the bank and no future. Also the idea that the cap was there to prevent the rich teams from stealing all the players is ridiculous. Nothing stopped SKT from stealing every single player that showed the slightest bit of potential. Caps only work if all the teams have at least some money, and we know that a lot were tapped or didn't care to invest more. All the caps did was hurt the futures of the players.
You're wrong, the teams never gained, anything from this money wise, the cap exist so that a player that is already being paid the highest amount cant get tempted into changing team because of a higher salary. In this case it is the team that is restricted,, if a team wants to offer 70k to a player they are not allowed to, if they don't want to offer that they never had to in the first place. How is a team saving money on not being allowed to offer other players a pay raise?
"Also the idea that the cap was there to prevent the rich teams from stealing all the players is ridiculous" Sadly its its not and it functioned as intended. Star teams still stole talented players because they were underpaid and thats a good thing but stars that are paid max amount cant be stolen and that was a good thing.
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I find it interesting to know, but indeed nothing to be revolted about.
What can be negative is that they usually are not allowed to have additional sponsors (and for KR even streaming and such). But that's a whole different question.
It's not like you need a maser degree to get anywhere, but you need to know what you're doing (in western countries, and in China at least from my experience; dunno for Korea).
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On November 22 2016 16:23 Phredxor wrote:
With how little interest SC2 had in Korea I don't think it matters that much. Can't imagine the team would be willing to pay big bucks regardless.
Flash said that he was really disappointed so I think it means that getting more was possible. We should not dwell too much in his reaction, but to say it in such a way while having lots of contextual knowledge, I bet kespa pulled a terrible move there.
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I 100% side with Ronin and I had no idea so many people here were in favor of socialist solutions in competitive gaming. One of the main reasons people enter a competition is the top-heavy prize money. The less money there is to be won for placing first the less competitive it gets and the fewer people will be interested in outperforming the field. Whether that competition is a tournament or the everyday grind doesn't matter, in both cases it is favorable to pay the best performing/most famous players the most money (at least if they negotiate, otherwise it's their own loss).
Collusion of this kind is detrimential to competition because it removes incentive to join and practice hard. In the end the entire field collapses from a lack of new, freshly motivated players. Capitalism is required for a healthy competition, not socialism.
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On November 22 2016 17:50 swissman777 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2016 16:23 Phredxor wrote:
With how little interest SC2 had in Korea I don't think it matters that much. Can't imagine the team would be willing to pay big bucks regardless. Flash said that he was really disappointed so I think it means that getting more was possible. We should not dwell too much in his reaction, but to say it in such a way while having lots of contextual knowledge, I bet kespa pulled a terrible move there.
Based on his results in sc2 I don't see why Flash should be payed much more than the other players just because he has a bigger name.
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Still a huge salary compared to 99% of foreign pros and people expected us to go full time and compete with this 
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On November 22 2016 17:54 Magic Powers wrote:
I 100% side with Ronin and I had no idea so many people here were in favor of socialist solutions in competitive gaming. One of the main reasons people enter a competition is the top-heavy prize money. The less money there is to be won for placing first the less competitive it gets and the fewer people will be interested in outperforming the field. Whether that competition is a tournament or the everyday grind doesn't matter, in both cases it is favorable to pay the best performing/most famous players the most money (at least if they negotiate, otherwise it's their own loss).
Collusion of this kind is detrimential to competition because it removes incentive to join and practice hard. In the end the entire field collapses from a lack of new, freshly motivated players. Capitalism is required for a healthy competition, not socialism.
Free market in any way and form sounds so cool in theory, doesnt it? Interestingly, so does a sensible reformulation of commumism. What a shame that both inevitably fail when implemented over actual people.
In your example, the fail is that removing the cap does nothing for new players and only makes the rich even richer. If you wanna see why thats a problem, i heard they are running a large scale experiment with 300 milion people somewhere along the way past ireland.
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On November 22 2016 17:50 swissman777 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2016 16:23 Phredxor wrote:
With how little interest SC2 had in Korea I don't think it matters that much. Can't imagine the team would be willing to pay big bucks regardless. Flash said that he was really disappointed so I think it means that getting more was possible. We should not dwell too much in his reaction, but to say it in such a way while having lots of contextual knowledge, I bet kespa pulled a terrible move there.
I'm sure for someone like Flash it would be, but that is just based off of his BW popularity.
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Salary cap is common in certain sports as in terms of limiting how much a team can spend on players' salaries. This is normally done to prevent a rich team from monopolising all the good players and just buying their way to a championship. Yes, it's not good for the players as it severely limits how much they can get paid, plus it means players have to shift around teams more often. However, it's (normally) better for the competition as every team (is meant to) have an equal chance of winning.
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Dear lord we have some stupid opinions here. KeSPA is and always was terrible for all of the players under it. I guarantee you, the only people that benefited from this were the team owners.
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On November 22 2016 18:23 Nerchio wrote:Still a huge salary compared to 99% of foreign pros and people expected us to go full time and compete with this
Are you in the 1%?
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I thought that Flash said this was just for KT Rolster. He was saying how unfortunate for Zest that he cannot make more than 70m won when Zest was at peak. He also did mention it makes sense to support KT LoL team, since that was where the current focus of the esports in Korea.
on the side note, I cannot believe Flash didn't finish his jokbal lol..yum
Edit: Oh he did say executives for SC2 from different teams met and decided 70m is the cap for all players.
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question is is the cap based for overall salary, or can players still get some money from sponsors etc...
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let the market determine the salary. capping it silly. 60k is very low. esp since they've sacrificed their entire lives. if pro gaming doesn't work out, they dont have any education to fall back on, no other skills to speak of, they are screwed for life
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EPT
