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salle
Sweden5554 Posts
So please, let us just stop debating something that none of us actually know anything about and let the people who want to congratulate Scarlet for this prestigious recognition do so. Thank you. EDIT: PS Even if you do have scientific articles on the subject, this is still not the thread for this discussion. | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada951 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:06 salle wrote: The problem with this debate, in particular, or any male versus female gaming in general, is that people are mostly just putting forth opinions but they are presenting them as facts usually mistaking correlations for causations. So is there any study we could look at that shows how much genes matter in RTS gaming aptitude? And if there was did they compare it to the impact of hormone levels, or the social aspect, for which group is it acceptable to spend all day sitting infront of a computer playing games, or if the competitive drive is down to gender or if it's a social construct tought to us from a very young age. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that I don't think anyone of us here has the answers to these questions. Instead what I think we all have are opinions, and even then these opinions are also most likely made up by our subconscious to justify our own emotions (whichever emotion that may be) on the topic. So please, let us just stop debating something that none of us actually know anything about and let the people who want to congratulate Scarlet for this prestigious recognition do so. Thank you. EDIT: PS Even if you do have scientific articles on the subject, this is still not the thread for this discussion. How do you make an entire post telling people they shouldn't speak because they don't know... then include a caveat at the end saying even if you do know, don't speak anyways. If you want people to stfu on the subject just say it up front tbh | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:13 Little-Chimp wrote: How do you make an entire post telling people they shouldn't speak because they don't know... then include a caveat at the end saying even if you do know, don't speak anyways. If you want people to stfu on the subject just say it up front tbh He's from Sweden. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
You can talk about science and what effects testosterone has on reaction speed, spatial awareness, etc. but I think it's naive to think that the LEADING cause for the lack of female gamers is something other than how we treat them. If they're transgender, everyone comments non-stop about it. If they're not-transgender, everyone comments about their appearance. If they're attractive, the whole conversation is about how attractive they are and all the fans that they have and how they wouldn't get any of the attention if they weren't attractive because they have no skill blah blah. If they're not attractive, everyone talks about how ugly they are. It's hard enough to just be good at video games and make it as an e-sports player. Think of all the additional crap that female players have to deal with online just trying to get good at the game. How many female players on here have been asked if they're "really a girl" and all sorts of questions that have nothing to do with StarCraft/games. Maybe this is why more women don't play. EDIT - Congratulations to Scarlett on this great achievement, and I hope that a lot more women join in e-sports soon. | ||
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salle
Sweden5554 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:13 Little-Chimp wrote: How do you make an entire post telling people they shouldn't speak because they don't know... then include a caveat at the end saying even if you do know, don't speak anyways. If you want people to stfu on the subject just say it up front tbh Because they are two different points. Point 1, which is the most important point, stop talking about your opinions as if they were facts. Point 2 is this is not the thread for a discussion on gender in gaming. However, people are (as far as I know) free to make a thread about studies on gender in gaming, as long as they manage to keep it civil. So as not to derail this discussion with yet another meta-discussion, feel free to PM me any further questions or opinions. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:27 DinoMight wrote: Maybe this is why more women don't play. To be fair, we heard plenty of comments about male players' / casters appearances. "Ah IdrA is balding at 20", "TB looks like he's fifty", "Tasteless is so handsome he could be a male whore", "Artosis looks like Beaker", "If my balls were as ugly as Major is, I'd become a eunuch", "MC has become fat". It's awful, but I think it's gender-neutrally awful. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On November 15 2016 01:37 HsDLTitich wrote: A tame discussion about how a girl is not actually a girl? Please. On November 15 2016 01:40 DickMcFanny wrote: Do you not find it odd that one of the best foreign players gets an award and the first thing your mind goes to is the balls she used to have? If Showtime got an award for best foreign Zerg, I'm pretty sure there'd be some discussion to whether that was a warranted award. In fact, the odd thing would be to completely forego questioning the legitimacy of that award because you believe the nature of the question to be offensive. The fact that gender is a sensitive subject doesn't excempt it from discussion and you're not doing anyone any favors by simplifying my position or outright claiming the discussion to be worthless. I haven't claimed Scarlett to be male so stop strawmanning my argument. You're the ones that are associating body with gender. Scarlett is female because she's mentally female, her body doesn't relate to whether she's male or female, that's not the discussion. If you can't acknowledge that despite being mentally female she still has physically male genes that (possibly) give her an edge over other women in competition then I will stop arguing. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:32 DickMcFanny wrote: To be fair, we heard plenty of comments about male players' / casters appearances. "Ah IdrA is balding at 20", "TB looks like he's fifty", "Tasteless is so handsome he could be a male whore", "Artosis looks like Beaker", "If my balls were as ugly as Major is, I'd become a eunuch", "MC has become fat". It's awful, but I think it's gender-neutrally awful. But these comments are said in passing. Along with "idra is a rage quitter" "I really love/hate TB's shoutcraft series" "Tasteless is one of my favorite casters because he's hilarious" "Artosis is losing his passion  " "Major isn't really that good" and "MC probably has the greatest control I've ever seen."With female gamers, it's almost entirely about their appearance, how they only get attention because they're female, or in Scarlett's case, about her being transgender. | ||
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Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
Equality is NOT the same as equilibrium. | ||
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DickMcFanny
Ireland1076 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:37 DinoMight wrote: With female gamers, it's almost entirely about their appearance, how they only get attention because they're female, or in Scarlett's case, about her being transgender. That's not true at all, though. Whenever she goes on a raping-spree and destroys a bunch of scrubs, the comments are usually about her superb play and creep spread. And 'foreigners hold'. I only read TL when it comes to SC2, but I thought even outside of her fan club, people were pretty nice. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:35 Saechiis wrote: If Showtime got an award for best foreign Zerg, I'm pretty sure there'd be some discussion to whether that was a warranted award. In fact, the odd thing would be to completely forego questioning the legitimacy of that award because you believe the nature of the question to be offensive. The fact that gender is a sensitive subject doesn't excempt it from discussion and you're not doing anyone any favors by simplifying my position or outright claiming the discussion to be worthless. I haven't claimed Scarlett to be male so stop strawmanning my argument. You're the ones that are associating body with gender. Scarlett is female because she's mentally female, her body doesn't relate to whether she's male or female, that's not the discussion. If you can't acknowledge that despite being mentally female she still has physically male genes that (possibly) give her an edge over other women in competition then I will stop arguing. You're being entirely scientific about it, and I, for one, can appreciate that. There's very little scientific evidence though, and what's more is that hormone blockers often given to transgender people can mess with the body's natural behavior to a point where that science isn't really valid or your sample size is too small to make a proper conclusion. So I would shift the discussion away from that and more towards "why aren't there more women playing games." | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:41 DickMcFanny wrote: That's not true at all, though. Whenever she goes on a raping-spree and destroys a bunch of scrubs, the comments are usually about her superb play. It comes up in certain threads more than others, but it always comes up. | ||
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Dumbledore
Sweden725 Posts
Not facing restrictions and or other things that regular females have had to face and then become a pro-gamer after living that kind of life. Is it still fair? | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On November 15 2016 03:10 Dumbledore wrote: Even if you view her as 100 % female as of NOW, she still has the childhood and have been brought up as a man. Not facing restrictions and or other things that regular females have had to face and then become a pro-gamer after living that kind of life. Is it still fair? Some girls are going to face more 'restrictions' than others. Through worse homes or worse circumstances or whatever. Happens to guys too. Its not fair to anyone who has an unfortunate upbringing or problems which prevent opportunities. Being trans isn't going to get you better treatment in the gaming world than being a cis girl or a guy. | ||
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207aicila
1237 Posts
On November 15 2016 02:41 DinoMight wrote: So I would shift the discussion away from that and more towards "why aren't there more women playing games." There are a lot of women playing games, just not the games people want them to play when they ask why there aren't more women playing games.  | ||
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ClanWars
United States330 Posts
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MrShankly
United Kingdom371 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
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