|
On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote:On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote:
Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year.
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed.
I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly).
Neeb was an average NA terran for a long time, he sure as hell made a great career choice to switch Lol.
|
On September 22 2016 01:25 phodacbiet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote:On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote:On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote:
Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year.
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed.
I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong However, in your statement that the only outstanding foreigners are "Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute," I think you left out Uthermal and MarineLord. Both of those guys are pretty good  .
Uthermal and MarineLord aren't bad but they aren't outstanding. I can't imagine either of them winning a long series against Snute or Neeb, let alone top Koreans. As others have said, KR vs foreign Terran is always gonna be the biggest gap.
Also, hats off to Snute for a smart imput instead of a Forigners vs Koreans bait
|
I think there's still a gap in skill level but it's getting closer not due to efforts of the foreigners but because of a lack of efforts from the Koreans. I think the current system is demotivating them.
|
United States33360 Posts
hey I didn't even ask about the foreigner-korea gap but here we are anyway :D
|
On September 22 2016 03:22 Waxangel wrote:
hey I didn't even ask about the foreigner-korea gap but here we are anyway :D
Please go and ask TRUE about it  .
|
On September 22 2016 02:50 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 01:25 phodacbiet wrote:On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote:On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote:On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote:
Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year.
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed.
I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong However, in your statement that the only outstanding foreigners are "Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute," I think you left out Uthermal and MarineLord. Both of those guys are pretty good . Uthermal and MarineLord aren't bad but they aren't outstanding. I can't imagine either of them winning a long series against Snute or Neeb, let alone top Koreans. As others have said, KR vs foreign Terran is always gonna be the biggest gap. Also, hats off to Snute for a smart imput instead of a Forigners vs Koreans bait
uThermal beat Neeb in the finals of IEM Shanghai. I'd consider Bo7 to be a long series
|
On September 22 2016 03:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 02:50 Fango wrote:On September 22 2016 01:25 phodacbiet wrote:On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote:On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote:On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote:
Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year.
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed.
I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong However, in your statement that the only outstanding foreigners are "Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute," I think you left out Uthermal and MarineLord. Both of those guys are pretty good . Uthermal and MarineLord aren't bad but they aren't outstanding. I can't imagine either of them winning a long series against Snute or Neeb, let alone top Koreans. As others have said, KR vs foreign Terran is always gonna be the biggest gap. Also, hats off to Snute for a smart imput instead of a Forigners vs Koreans bait uThermal beat Neeb in the finals of IEM Shanghai. I'd consider Bo7 to be a long series
I didn't say it would never happen, but I'd never favour them in a series tbh
|
On September 22 2016 03:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 02:50 Fango wrote:On September 22 2016 01:25 phodacbiet wrote:On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote:On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote:On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote:
Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year.
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed.
I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong However, in your statement that the only outstanding foreigners are "Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute," I think you left out Uthermal and MarineLord. Both of those guys are pretty good . Uthermal and MarineLord aren't bad but they aren't outstanding. I can't imagine either of them winning a long series against Snute or Neeb, let alone top Koreans. As others have said, KR vs foreign Terran is always gonna be the biggest gap. Also, hats off to Snute for a smart imput instead of a Forigners vs Koreans bait uThermal beat Neeb in the finals of IEM Shanghai. I'd consider Bo7 to be a long series
Well first, I remember Neeb to be an up and coming Terran who had pretty good micro.
And for the series, Neeb played rather sub-par in the series. It wasn't as much the fact that uThermal made him play poorly but that relative to how Neeb had played prior in the tournament, his performance in the finals was poor. Not to say that uThermal didn't play quite well, but the thing to remember is that in their next two tournament meetings, Neeb crushed him. In the Copa Intercontinental tournament, the first two games weren't really all that close.
I think it's becoming a curse. You never want to beat Neeb in an offline tournament finals or he will crush you on your next subsequent meetings...
|
On September 22 2016 08:45 FrkFrJss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 03:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 22 2016 02:50 Fango wrote:On September 22 2016 01:25 phodacbiet wrote:On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote:On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote:On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote:
Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year.
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed.
I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong However, in your statement that the only outstanding foreigners are "Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute," I think you left out Uthermal and MarineLord. Both of those guys are pretty good . Uthermal and MarineLord aren't bad but they aren't outstanding. I can't imagine either of them winning a long series against Snute or Neeb, let alone top Koreans. As others have said, KR vs foreign Terran is always gonna be the biggest gap. Also, hats off to Snute for a smart imput instead of a Forigners vs Koreans bait uThermal beat Neeb in the finals of IEM Shanghai. I'd consider Bo7 to be a long series Well first, I remember Neeb to be an up and coming Terran who had pretty good micro. And for the series, Neeb played rather sub-par in the series. It wasn't as much the fact that uThermal made him play poorly but that relative to how Neeb had played prior in the tournament, his performance in the finals was poor. Not to say that uThermal didn't play quite well, but the thing to remember is that in their next two tournament meetings, Neeb crushed him. In the Copa Intercontinental tournament, the first two games weren't really all that close. I think it's becoming a curse. You never want to beat Neeb in an offline tournament finals or he will crush you on your next subsequent meetings...
Go Neeb vs Byun finals somehow so Neeb can crush Byun at Blizzcon
|
On September 22 2016 02:24 Pentarp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 05:22 NEEDZMOAR wrote:On September 21 2016 05:10 plogamer wrote:On September 21 2016 05:02 Penev wrote:On September 21 2016 04:22 lost_patrol wrote:
Interesting that foreigners are playing better when they're not constantly getting crushed by 16 Koreans per tournament. What does that tell us about the new WCS rules? But how do we really know they're playing (significantly) better? They do not play Koreans, offline No, let's ask foreign pros with their obvious bias. no lets ask low diamond shitters on TL who like it when their own scene is dying :D ontopic: great interview. Promising to see snute with a good mindset for blizzcon! The topic of the quoted discussion was around the issue of foreign vs Korean skill, how we can get a measure of it, and the effect of the new WCS system. Given my full time study in a highly competitive field and part time job, happy to be a diamond "shitter". If the scene is largely dominated by people like you, I can see why it's dying.
ok
|
|
|
On September 22 2016 03:28 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 03:22 Waxangel wrote:
hey I didn't even ask about the foreigner-korea gap but here we are anyway :D Please go and ask TRUE about it .
He's gonna kill it in his all Korean group, so don't bother..
|
On September 22 2016 04:02 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2016 03:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On September 22 2016 02:50 Fango wrote:On September 22 2016 01:25 phodacbiet wrote:On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote:On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote:On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote:
Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year.
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed.
I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong However, in your statement that the only outstanding foreigners are "Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute," I think you left out Uthermal and MarineLord. Both of those guys are pretty good . Uthermal and MarineLord aren't bad but they aren't outstanding. I can't imagine either of them winning a long series against Snute or Neeb, let alone top Koreans. As others have said, KR vs foreign Terran is always gonna be the biggest gap. Also, hats off to Snute for a smart imput instead of a Forigners vs Koreans bait uThermal beat Neeb in the finals of IEM Shanghai. I'd consider Bo7 to be a long series I didn't say it would never happen, but I'd never favour them in a series tbh
Marinelord did 3-0 Neeb in semi finals last time they played in a big tournament
uThermal did win the final at IEM against Neeb too
I don't say i'd favor them either, i just want to point out that we have two immensively talented terrans consired as top foreigners. Even though they are more inconsistent than other foreigners of other races
|
Great picture. Snute is the one guy who's not afraid to take it to the macro game vs the best Koreans. That's why he's so good.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
