EPTSnute, WCS Copa champ, says smart stuff about SC2 - Page 2
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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highsis
259 Posts
I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed. I hope this doesn't happen this year. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote: Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year. I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed. I hope this doesn't happen this year. Well I don't think you'll have to worry about being disappointed because the majority (that I've seen) on teamliquid believe that foreigners are some between worse or much worse than either all Koreans or the higher code s Koreans. A number of posters (that I've seen) who support the WCS scene are mildly optimistic about foreigner vs Korean chances. Opinions do vary, but I think from our point of view it is that foreigners have improved, but they're still not at the level of ro16 Code S Koreans. Personally, I do believe that the gap is not as big as people might think. | ||
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breaker1328
Canada295 Posts
On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote: Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year. I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed. I hope this doesn't happen this year. In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. | ||
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Mobile08
United States12 Posts
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highsis
259 Posts
On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote: In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. I personally believe the average skill gap is narrower than ever, if we exclude the very beginning of SC2 scene, due to the declining Korean SC2 programing. Their youngest progamer was born in 97, I think? They don't have new bloods as it is and almost all new talented gamers play LoL or Overwatch. I think WCS change has hit a nail in the coffin, and it is only a matter of time before the skill gap becomes very close since Korean SC2 scene will keep shrieking if some measure is not taken to revive it. I'm just curious if that gap closing would be this year, or if we have to wait another year. | ||
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herMan
Japan2053 Posts
Are there still online weeklies in Korea like the ESV or have they died out? Sounds like investing in that kind of tourneys would be pretty decent. I'm an old curmudgeon when it comes to the foreigners v. Koreans discussion. I'll watch the games and come to my conclusions instead of making myself look silly with predictions. | ||
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4001 Posts
On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote: In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. maybe someone on TL made a proper analysis already, but imo TRUE won summer with a tornado style, just being ultra-agressive when no one could adapt quickly. He lost quite a few games after that, so i wouldn't just explain his win by a general skill margin. He won that one with specific builds and excellent execution. | ||
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Corwinus
Croatia96 Posts
On September 21 2016 09:18 highsis wrote: Recent Foreigner vs Korean controversy reminds me of the last year. I'd read several comments on TL claiming that 'European style protoss is impossible to defeat even for Korean zergs' so I was looking forward to Life vs Lilbow, and then... Let's just say I was more than disappointed. I hope this doesn't happen this year. Lilbow himself admitted he didn't even practice HotS after his WCS Season 3 win and that he only played LotV during that time(he also claimed that no one was playing HotS, and TLO called that out saying people offered to practice with him for Blizzcon). He also got full of himself and at the same time lost the drive to practice the game(cause he already won what he wanted, remember?). That specific situation wasn't so simple as 'Life was just better'(which he was, let's be fair), but if the foreigner protoss with the style that was really difficult to deal with as zerg didn't even practice for his match nor was nearly as motivated to practice for it, I think you can see that narrowed his chances of success immensely. IMO the only thing one should be disappointed in here is that Lilbow was a moron. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
On September 21 2016 06:05 Argonauta wrote: Foreigners vs Koreans is a funny battle where only foreigneirs know they are fighting already back in WoL koreans came together to help out those who were playing against foreigners, so im not sure what youre talking about. | ||
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[16thSq] Kuro
1213 Posts
On September 21 2016 15:25 herMan wrote: There was a Korean amateur teamleague announced recently which sounded cool, I guess that's something. Are there still online weeklies in Korea like the ESV or have they died out? Sounds like investing in that kind of tourneys would be pretty decent. I'm an old curmudgeon when it comes to the foreigners v. Koreans discussion. I'll watch the games and come to my conclusions instead of making myself look silly with predictions.  OlimoLeague is currently the weekly tourney in Korea, I believe Canata organizes some small tournament/league as well. | ||
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Eiltonn
Germany307 Posts
On September 21 2016 12:39 breaker1328 wrote: In my amateur opinion, the largest skill gap is between foreigner Terran when compared to korean Terran. As far as the meta is concerned, it depends on the player. Neeb beat a bunch of korean Terran online and Snute beat Zest when Zest was performing his best in season 1 this year but then TRUE came over and won the Summer championship so... I think with the two scenes being so disconnected it will come down to which one has figured out the game better. We basically just have to wait for the kespa cup to get an idea of how blizzcon is going to go. Not to mention that some of the players that didn't qualify for the kespa cup are still going to blizzcon. It's been a strange year, to say the least. This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong | ||
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Ppjack
Belgium489 Posts
On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote: This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong And why Neeb over uThermal or Marinelord ? He did not really achieve more than both of them | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
I would love to hear what TRUE thinks about WCS and foreigners as a player who played GSL and WCS this year. His thoughts about the scene and his struggle with getting a visa would be very interesting. Neebs thoughts on foreigners, koreans and the scene as a player who practices and lives in Korea but plays WCS would also be great to know. How did he adjust to Korea, how does his practice look now, for how long will he stay, does he think you can't be the best if you don't live in Korea? Lots of questions  . | ||
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Antonidas
United States105 Posts
I think the level of play has increased. Mindset and professionalism has probably improved in the sense that players are practicing more and are trying harder. Yeah... probably the result of the new WCS regional lock system. I know I would definitely be more motivated... GO SNUTE. | ||
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FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On September 21 2016 22:40 Ppjack wrote: And why Neeb over uThermal or Marinelord ? He did not really achieve more than both of them Overall no, but this year he's been way more consistent than either of them. Remember how uThermal won 4-2 against Neeb? Neeb followed that up with a 3-1 and a 3-0 win against uThermal. Even by looking at the WCS points he is tied for 3rd while they are not even qualified. | ||
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Eiltonn
Germany307 Posts
On September 22 2016 00:09 FrkFrJss wrote: Overall no, but this year he's been way more consistent than either of them. Remember how uThermal won 4-2 against Neeb? Neeb followed that up with a 3-1 and a 3-0 win against uThermal. Even by looking at the WCS points he is tied for 3rd while they are not even qualified. Yes uthermal had very good performances this year but overall Neeb seemed to be a lot more consistent in doing so. And consistency is key. I also mentioned that foreign terrans did some impressive stuff, but to be considered a real top player you have to repeat success. And this consistency is what foreign terrans never achieved while people like Stephano or Naniwa managed to stay relevant for a longer period of time. | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
On September 21 2016 22:05 Eiltonn wrote: This is how it always was tho. The biggest gap between foreigners and Koreans has always been with Terran players. I am sure many will disagree but i drew at some point the conclusion that terran is less forgiving or in some aspect a little harder to play at the higher levels. To me its kinda proof that the greatest foreigners in SC2s history are exclusively Zerg and Protoss, while the greatest foreign Terrans never reached their height or an equal period of dominance. For reference check the WCS standings. Only Terran in The top 8 is Polt and he isnt even a foreigner in the first place. Currently outstanding foreigners are people like Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute. Again no Terran (sadly). About the skill gap between foreigners and Koreans.I dont follow the foreign scene in sufficient detail so i cannot produce a solid argument. My money is still on the koreans tho until foreigners prove me wrong In my opinion, even though I don't play Terran, I believe Terran is by far the hardest race to play BUT they have the most potential. That's why in BW, foreign terrans and ICCUP was mostly Protoss and Zerg. Even when BW was in its infancy, a lot of people thought that Terran was UP, that is... until the Terran Bonjwas showed them how to bunker rush and play Terran. I believe this same rule applies to SC2. This is why I think Blizzard has a hard time buffing Terran. On the one hand, buffing Terran will completely destroy the game at the highest level because Korean Terrans would just wreck everyone, on the other hand, nerfing Terran will destroy the lower levels and cause Terran to underperform in lower leagues. However, in your statement that the only outstanding foreigners are "Neeb, Showtime, Nerchio and Snute," I think you left out Uthermal and MarineLord. Both of those guys are pretty good  . | ||
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Pentarp
219 Posts
On September 21 2016 05:22 NEEDZMOAR wrote: no lets ask low diamond shitters on TL who like it when their own scene is dying :D ontopic: great interview. Promising to see snute with a good mindset for blizzcon! The topic of the quoted discussion was around the issue of foreign vs Korean skill, how we can get a measure of it, and the effect of the new WCS system. Given my full time study in a highly competitive field and part time job, happy to be a diamond "shitter". If the scene is largely dominated by people like you, I can see why it's dying. | ||
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