EPTLegacy of the Void Balance Update -- July 6, 2016 - Page 4
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Cyro
United Kingdom20275 Posts
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beentheredonethat
2934 Posts
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igay
Australia1178 Posts
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
On July 07 2016 19:10 Cyro wrote: 15.8% BL range increase, viper buffs, crackling upgrade doubled in effectiveness and ultra armor giving +4 instead of +2 - LOTV has no shortage of hive buffs Exactly, no wonder everyone wants to end the game before hive. oh well, guess it will take another few months before we can see a new patch. | ||
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ShamanElemental1
56 Posts
On July 07 2016 14:07 BronzeKnee wrote: But that is the Blizzard way. When WOL, HOTS and LOTV were released, aggressive options were powerful and plentiful, and Blizzard intended for this to happen. But over time with each release, they've slowly nerfed aggressive options or buffed defensive options until the game becomes a turtle fest with no action. Then Blizzard wonders why the game is so passive and releases an expansion with new aggressive options that promote action. And of course they dutifully begin nerfing those aggressive options and the process repeats itself... My God does this game need a new design team, we've been on this merry-go-round way too long. This process isn't the only way to design a game, and it just happens to be one of the worst ways. I agree, SC2 has to many band aids. Mostly because David ignores real problems and its to afraid to cut in flesh and fix. If they try to fix stuff , it will take at least 1 year of drastic changes, where everyone and their mother will cry about balance instead of focusing on design. | ||
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XPA
Germany242 Posts
On July 07 2016 07:02 geokilla wrote: This occurred right after the first GSL group was played... Not that it would have made a difference but the timing is a bit poor. This makes perfectly sence if you update during a running competition. Gives players most time to adjust pefore the play competitive. Updating right before the group played would have been a poor decision. Cant make them play a patch that they havent trained with | ||
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KatatoniK
United Kingdom978 Posts
Nerf Lib air to ground damage/range Nerf Adept shades Nerf Ultralisk armour But don't buff stuff that doesn't need buffing X_X | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On July 07 2016 16:17 Scarlett` wrote: oracles are actually garbage vs zerg now ;o but adepts are still  I hope an adept shade nerf is considered at some point, because then the pvz match-up would be really fair I think with the queen/spore buff and the shade nerf | ||
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LSN
Germany696 Posts
The way to do this is to remove all LOTV + HOTS units and redesign WOL from the start. Then step by step add HOTS + LOTV units back (rebalanced, redesigned). Focus should be on shifting terran away from bio/(and now air) dominance and make it a more late-game heavy race. Terran cannot be the highest mobility race or the game wont work at all, but it now is. Zerg cannot be the defensive race but it now is. The natural tools of each race only support a game design that is the other way round. WOL rebalance: 1. remove marauder 2. adapt tank in marauder spot 3. give tank back its upgrade at tech lab so it can be buffed without being abused too early. 4. bring back marauder in lategame with akademy building (200mins/200gas). 5. reduce banling damage by ~50% 6. remove muta regen 7. nerf roaches/gateway units to adapt removal of marauder 8. put lurker on top of roach and ravager on top of hydralisk so that mech can become a thing without tankivacs (potentially even switch hydras with roaches) 9. of course further adaptions of WOL units, splash and terrible damage from all sources can be reduced 10. carefully bring back HOTS + LOTV units and fit them in this new meta. Done! We get a game that is fun to play, which doesn't skip early/midgame, which allows unit progression, which is less punishing, which allows the races to play their natural strengths (no its not z defending and terran on max mobility!!!), which allows players to differentiate themselves more from each other through skill, which will have alot more variety in legitimate playstyles, which will have loosened timings so that slight advantages/disadvantages don't predecide games as easily, which allows to remove alot of the op stuff that has been added to counter other op stuff which over the years has made the game bad! It is essential to understand that all sources of failure come from the fact that each T and Z have to play metas that their races where not made for. Z is not the race to have an op endgame and turtle to it. Terran is not the race to constantly harrass. The problem with that is balance. If you design the game as it is now the balance will be and stay fragile forever. By default satisfactory balance and design wont be possible to achieve. The defending race cannot have the instant remax ability of zerg and the offensive race cannot have the best defence in game such as terran has it which makes them almost unattackable other than with new op tools like ravagers/op ultras/invincible nydus (the wrong path that you have gone). It creates fundamental balance issues. The defending race with op 200/200 army must have slow production, the offensive race with weaker 200/200 army must have the instant remax ability that zerg has and can be more fragile to attacks. The defensive race must have an ability such as mules to keep it in game during constant attacks and harrassments and in the end even allows them to sac SCV to make its lategame stronger. It is quite simple. The key of terran inner design is to not allow them to play completely without bio but also to not allow them to play pure bio. It should not be like when terran wins an attack that 90% of its units stim in and kill 2+ bases of the opponent even tho the game didn't necessarily need to be over if the opponent had a bit more time. With bio + mech compositions the goal is to allow stimmed marines to deal the damage without being in cover of the slower heavier units behind and then retreat instead of yolo stim marauder + marine in and gg. When terran gets back alot of its slowness it's units can become better. In opposite to what most ppl. believe the siege tank should have an as long as possible siege time so that gameplay evolves around siege/unsiege timings and it can be buffed as much as possible (would become op with fast siege/unsiege times). Etc. Stopping here. | ||
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Siegetank_Dieter
45 Posts
they don'T even make meaningful changes at all. why should they redesign the game ? | ||
ihatevideogames
570 Posts
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stilt
France2736 Posts
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1 2 1 2
39 Posts
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BroskiDerpman
58 Posts
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JackONeill
861 Posts
If every single zerg KR player is rushing ultras without trying out other things before that, if they refuse to adapt, and then cry to DK who'll buff the queen which is probably the strongest defenive unit in the game already, while completely ignoring community feedback, here come the fun times. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
hahahaha | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16387 Posts
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On July 07 2016 10:18 Beelzebub1 wrote: While I agree with you in general, when I read the rest of your post, I feel like you're adressing the wrong issues.Not that I'm going to complain about buffs to my race, and it's not like they are so drastic that you can pull the, "David has no clue what he's doing" but it really seems like these buffs reinforce the notion that David has no real vision to fix actual issues and is more interested in PR band aid fixes to maintain a status quo of 50/50/50 balance which has already shown itself over the years to create stagnation and further declines in viewership (I don't know how many more tournaments SC2 is going to have if viewership keeps dropping) so I have to ask, where is the vision for this game? Zerg is already great at playing defensive, creep is a powerful defensive tool, Queens and mobile static defenses are powerful defensive tools, Zerg doesn't really lack in areas of defense, we lack in areas of attack, are Liberators really even that OP at the higher levels? These changes will definitely make Liberators and Maru double drops weaker but will do nothing to incentivize Zerg moving out of their side of the map until Hive tech is out, engagements without Ultralisks/Broodlords/Adrenal are simply too punishing off of creep, especially vs. Terran. Sure they have one of the strongest defenses, what you don't understand is, it costs a lot of apm and minerals in order to defend against a liberator in the very beginning of the game. Pretty much like marines against mutas. It's a pain in the ass to defend especially when you have 3 bases. I won't mention the maps where that Liberator unit is broken af. Let's look at all of the exciting play offensive units that Zerg has and what their state in the current metagame is. Mutalisks - Strongly buffed and then instead of nerfing the Mutalisk itself Liberators/Phoenix were made into hard counters which has made Mutalisk play borderline extinct. Mutalisk switches are just bad against Protoss, and 3 Liberators can pretty much a move through a pack of Mutalisks. Infestors - laughably broken but nerfed into oblivion, any time I see these units they get a fungal off before they are popped in about a second flat, waste of gas, even Snute and Scarlett don't really touch them as they're too unwieldy and underwhelming. Hydralisks - Mediocre in ZvP only in timing windows otherwise very very bad, almost totally non viable vs. Terran and ZvZ they are great for making Lurkers. Frail, sucks vs things it isn't supposed to suck against (Phoenix? Liberators?) and gas intensive, yet another iconic offensive Zerg unit left to the side lines to suck and keep us on our side of the map. I feel like you haven't played a lot of Hydras' builds tbh... Sure they're fragile, but they can be game deciders when you put the right combo of units. Hydra outrange the roaches so if you can hotkey them separatively behind the roaches they can do wonders. You're right against terran, I don't like making them at all. It's even worse against tankivacs T_T Viper - Used to be OP now it sucks ass in pretty much every match up outside of Mutalisk vs Mutalisk wars, Blinding Cloud is good against mech which isn't great, PB sucks against players that can can split at a Master league level and above, and consume (gasp surprise) keeps Vipers pretty much on their side of the map at all times because without energy they are floating defenseless 200 gas targets. The solution is to give Zerg more offensive options, not continue to buff it's defensive options until turtling to Hive becomes the premium strategy to use in all match ups. The increased Queen range is also going to make ZvZ even more cheese friendly and volatile then it already is with Overlord scouting becoming much more difficult, 2 Queens can easily pick off a non speed Overlord. You're pretty much right. It doesn't feel zergish at all nowadays. What we really need is to nerf the liberators, not buffing the queens. I think they fear that if they nerf too much that unit, it'll become another useless expansion unit. But it's still the reason why I'm playing less and less. | ||
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buchh
38 Posts
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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