Legacy of the Void Balance Update -- July 6, 2016 - Page 7

On July 09 2016 23:11 Haukinger wrote:


I'm in. How much would we need?

most fun and the least broken version of the game

Wings of Liberty

On July 10 2016 05:23 Cyro wrote:




WOL was probably the most broken period of sc2's history though it was evolving much faster. The skill floor and ceiling were both lower as well

On July 10 2016 06:37 Ej_ wrote:

did you hibernate for the last GSLs of WoL?

On July 10 2016 07:07 Clbull wrote:

Blizzard did a 1 range nerf to Fungal Growth to nerf its range from 9 to 8 after that GSL and after HSC.

On July 10 2016 07:13 ZigguratOfUr wrote:


Path 1.5.3 was before the last two WoL GSLs and HSC.

On July 10 2016 08:01 ihatevideogames wrote:
Many people fail to understand a very basic thing: SC2 isn't going to make Blizzard any more money. It's a game you buy once, maybe buy the Nova mission pack, and that's it. Overwatch crates, Hearhtstone, WoW, those can make Blizzard money for years. Remember, it's not Blizzard anymore for years, it's Activision-Blizzard. Of course they won't give a fuck about a hyper-competitve game with a small following in a dead genre.

On July 10 2016 08:01 ihatevideogames wrote:
Many people fail to understand a very basic thing: SC2 isn't going to make Blizzard any more money. It's a game you buy once, maybe buy the Nova mission pack, and that's it. Overwatch crates, Hearhtstone, WoW, those can make Blizzard money for years. Remember, it's not Blizzard anymore for years, it's Activision-Blizzard. Of course they won't give a fuck about a hyper-competitve game with a small following in a dead genre.

On July 10 2016 19:57 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Not sure if i have to laugh or cry really hard. Broodlord with their 16% range buff due lotv, queen buff, infestor neural parasite buff and hyper fast spores with swarmhost and parasitic bomb that cant be dodged. Thanks blizzard, well done, bravo, bis, encore, the same mistake again. Fan fcking tastic the state of the game below the 0.000001% of top tier players.

I really wish i didnt like the game during HOTS, would make it much easier to dump sc2 and do something fun instead of this frustrating experience.

On July 10 2016 20:45 Charoisaur wrote:

With weaker ultras it would be far easier to kill the zerg before he gets to his ultimate air army.
The problem right now is that once ultras are out you have to sit in your base turtling with liberators while the zerg can freely tech to broodlord viper.
if ultras wouldn't make bio useless the timer in which you can win would be far longer and you could also pull the zerg apart with drops since they can't just put 1 ultra at an expansion to make it unharassable.

On July 10 2016 08:36 Clbull wrote:

I just edited my comment, having looked into that. Still, Blizzard didn't fix the one balance problem causing Zerg dominance because HotS was literally around the corner.

Zerg got so powerful because they could make nothing but Queens and Drones, get a huge economic lead and tech to 14 minute Infestor Brood Lord without repercussions all because of the Queen range buff in the Patch 1.4.3 Balance Update which made Queens soft-counter not just Hellions but virtually anything Protoss and Terran opponents could throw at them in the early game.

That balance update alone was why PvZ descended into PartinG style Sentry Immortal all-ins, because they were the only thing that could bust an economic Zerg midgame.

The better solution to solve the issue of early game Hellion harassment in TvZ would have been to nerf the Hellion's damage to Light units pre-blue flame, or to buff Roaches to be more useful against Terran, perhaps with a minor Armor buff.

Also, WoL even in its Zerg-favoured state is far more fun than the bullcrap, frustrating game design of LotV, where not opening in a VERY specific manner leads to hard counters and build order losses such as:

• Really cheap Siegeivac/Liberator drop cheese build, which hard-counter opponents that lack decent anti-air defences such as Ravagers, Corruptors, or mass Queens.
  
• Oracle harassment, which leads to really cheap build order loss in TvP if you don't have a Cyclone or a Missile Turret in each mineral line..
  
• Ultralisks. With their incredibly overpowered maximum armor of 8, and the neutering of Marauder attack damage, this basically means that Ultralisks will take 10 less damage per attack (or over a 50% loss in effective Marauder DPS against Ultralisks) in comparison to HotS when Ultralisk vs MMMM was actually BALANCED in the late game... The only way to actually counter Ultralisks at this point is the Liberator and anybody with half a brain, a half-decent bank and some larvae to make mass Corruptors will WTFPWN them in an instant.
  
• Widow Mine drops. They don't take much of a tech effort to pull off unlike Dark Templar harassment, and will lead to a virtual build order loss if you do not have detection to defend against them. Imagine what Dark Templar would be like if they could be built after finishing a Cybernetics Core, cost half as much gas, and if Warp Prisms could stim. That's what Widow Mine drops feel like.
  
• Stimivacs. Seriously, drops were fine in Wings of Liberty, because players generally relied on the element of surprise to land them, and on intelligent placement of static defences and defending units to hold them. As of HotS, Medivacs can stim, allowing them to bypass even intelligently placed static defences without dying outright. This also led to the PvT metagame revolving heavily around Blink Stalkers, because they were the only unit mobile and powerful enough to consistently defend against boosted Medivac drops.
  
• Ravager busts, which have single handedly killed the Forge Fast Expand build in PvZ, thanks to the overpowered Corrosive Bile bombardment ability being able to outrange the Photon Cannons and destroy the Pylons powering them. Oh, and they're a massive problem in TvZ as well, which can only be held reliably in the early-mid game with Banshees that can actually dodge their volleys, while Siege Tanks and Liberators are simply too immobile to dodge bile.
  
• Warp Prism range drops.
  
• Photon Overcharge. Both the HotS and LotV iterations of this ability are horribad, because of how effectively and effortlessly they hold aggression.
  
• Lurkers. As much as I like their return to the game, giving them MORE range than a Colossus is stupid. They basically mean that if you don't build zone controlling splash units of your own, like Disruptors or Siege Tanks, you're dead.
  

The list of my grievances with LotV only goes on. It's not fun to play. In fact, the frustration of trying to ladder even at the low league levels is so bad that I've been driven to uninstall it three times already.

I've actually been doing a lot of Wings of Liberty ladder as of late and I've found it so much more fun. Legacy of the Void on the other hand has more cheap deaths than Silver Surfer on the NES...

And you know what? Map design could have probably fixed a lot of WoL's balance and game design issues as well. Even in the dreaded 'patchzerg' era, there were still Terran favoured maps in the pool such as Metropolis where Terran opponents could genuinely contend with a Zerg late game.

On July 11 2016 00:28 sabas123 wrote:

Oracles in tvp is not that big of a deal since nearly every major build has a good answer for them,
CC first got marines,
Gas first got mines
The only one that has to build turrets are often the reaper -> factory builds / reactor hellion builds which is fine IMO

Boosted medivacs aren't really that big of a deal considering how strong pylon overcharge or massive queen range is now.

And the widow mine drop taking less amount of effort compared to dt harrash is the most ludicrous statement if ever heard.