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On July 07 2016 11:39 eviltomahawk wrote:
Bigger changes probably won't come until after Blizzcon during the off-season.
Bigger changes probably won't come*
Here, fixed it for you.
Cyclone change, thor buff, and SH buff were beautifull diversions from the "dev team" (which probably consist of DK working once a week and a lone programmer in a dusty basement), just good enough to appear as legit, and just bad enough not to change anything in reality.
It's pretty obvious now that blizz has no interest in patching and actively solving the design issues that plague LOTV. Even balance patches come down to the lowest of the band aids. Queen is once again reinforced as the ultimate and only zerg early game defense, effectively preventing zerg from ever crossing the map. More queens, more turtle into T3, more of what we've seen since happen in the matchup since november 2015 : the same game, over and over again, of terran trying to kill zerg before T3, and zerg turtling with no real option to ever cross the map.
Moreover, we've seen the dev team repeatedly ignore the community's feedback, which they pretend to listen to. Talking about anything else that what the community wants (DK's ladder level, or warcraft movie advertisement), and babysitting the KR pro scene's balance is the only thing that has been truly done.
Community asking for an adept nerf? Ignored, until Seed/KR pro scene asked for it.
Community in favor of the tank's removal? Ignored.
Community not in favor of the queen range buff? Ignored.
Stale PR is stale, and I don't see the point of continuing to give blizz feedback. There's a truckload of stuff that is frustating and poorly designed in the game, that has been pointed out by the community for months, but apparently Blizz is waiting for SC2 to fade away so that we can all go buy crates in overwatch.
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On July 07 2016 11:50 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 11:35 xTJx wrote:
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them. The queen buff in Wings was a primary cause of the original decline of sc2 by causing blord/infestor. Queen range is not a minor change. Most tournaments these days are foreigner only where ZvT isn't imbalanced and may even be zerg favored. This actually threatens to negatively impact balance at every level below code S Korea even if Korea were to balance out.
pretty sure queen range didnt cause bl infestor it was just zergs figuring out the meta
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On July 07 2016 11:57 Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 11:50 TheWinks wrote:On July 07 2016 11:35 xTJx wrote:
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them. The queen buff in Wings was a primary cause of the original decline of sc2 by causing blord/infestor. Queen range is not a minor change. Most tournaments these days are foreigner only where ZvT isn't imbalanced and may even be zerg favored. This actually threatens to negatively impact balance at every level below code S Korea even if Korea were to balance out. pretty sure queen range didnt cause bl infestor it was just zergs figuring out the meta
what are your thoughts on this patch? i feel like queen AA improvement will be a pretty nice buff helping vs libs/medivacs/prisms especially
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On July 07 2016 06:49 ShamanElemental1 wrote:
And above else it promotes turtle.
But that is the Blizzard way. When WOL, HOTS and LOTV were released, aggressive options were powerful and plentiful, and Blizzard intended for this to happen. But over time with each release, they've slowly nerfed aggressive options or buffed defensive options until the game becomes a turtle fest with no action.
Then Blizzard wonders why the game is so passive and releases an expansion with new aggressive options that promote action. And of course they dutifully begin nerfing those aggressive options and the process repeats itself...
My God does this game need a new design team, we've been on this merry-go-round way too long. This process isn't the only way to design a game, and it just happens to be one of the worst ways.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
On July 07 2016 11:57 Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 11:50 TheWinks wrote:On July 07 2016 11:35 xTJx wrote:
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them. The queen buff in Wings was a primary cause of the original decline of sc2 by causing blord/infestor. Queen range is not a minor change. Most tournaments these days are foreigner only where ZvT isn't imbalanced and may even be zerg favored. This actually threatens to negatively impact balance at every level below code S Korea even if Korea were to balance out. pretty sure queen range didnt cause bl infestor it was just zergs figuring out the meta
buffed queen & 6queen opening reset tvz overnight and made it easier for Z to consistently force the game late. If Z is struggling to take a third and stay alive then other stuff doesn't really matter
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I hared Overwatch has a competitive mode now, albeit complete shit but it can't be worse than this patch.
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On July 07 2016 08:34 Pontius Pirate wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 06:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:nice work guys. as i've been saying for a long long time Air is just too strong. From a purely subjective perspective a ground unit should be a lot stronger than an air unit on a $ for $ basis. Thanks for strengthening Ground based Anti-Air again. On July 07 2016 06:40 Loccstana wrote:
Another nail in the coffin for banshee openers. i play as terran 60% of the time and if my stupid banshee opener becomes a casualty or is substantially nerfed so be it. there is just too much Terran air in general in this game and i'm glad to see Terran air getting hit by balance patches. This is a bit of a tangent, but I'd like to see them move Banshee cloak to the late game and push Hyperflight Rotors as the early-game Banshee cheese upgrade. I could see it forcing early spire or Phoenix openings, whereas cloak just forces detection in a rather bland way.
that sounds like a cool idea.
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On July 07 2016 11:55 JackONeill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 11:39 eviltomahawk wrote:
Bigger changes probably won't come until after Blizzcon during the off-season. Bigger changes probably won't come* Here, fixed it for you. Cyclone change, thor buff, and SH buff were beautifull diversions from the "dev team" (which probably consist of DK working once a week and a lone programmer in a dusty basement), just good enough to appear as legit, and just bad enough not to change anything in reality. It's pretty obvious now that blizz has no interest in patching and actively solving the design issues that plague LOTV. Even balance patches come down to the lowest of the band aids. Queen is once again reinforced as the ultimate and only zerg early game defense, effectively preventing zerg from ever crossing the map. More queens, more turtle into T3, more of what we've seen since happen in the matchup since november 2015 : the same game, over and over again, of terran trying to kill zerg before T3, and zerg turtling with no real option to ever cross the map. Moreover, we've seen the dev team repeatedly ignore the community's feedback, which they pretend to listen to. Talking about anything else that what the community wants (DK's ladder level, or warcraft movie advertisement), and babysitting the KR pro scene's balance is the only thing that has been truly done. Community asking for an adept nerf? Ignored, until Seed/KR pro scene asked for it. Community in favor of the tank's removal? Ignored. Community not in favor of the queen range buff? Ignored. Stale PR is stale, and I don't see the point of continuing to give blizz feedback. There's a truckload of stuff that is frustating and poorly designed in the game, that has been pointed out by the community for months, but apparently Blizz is waiting for SC2 to fade away so that we can all go buy crates in overwatch.
I sincerely hope that you find the will to stop playing and following SC2 (like I did). The game is not going to get better and you know it at this point. Reading the "balance updates" over and over again without any real change in the game is just feeding the false hopes. Honestly, It's such a relief to don't give a shit about this game anymore.
Btw, you truly know the game is done when Avilo is playing more overwatch then SC2.
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Dk taking a huge dump right in the face of the community
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Addressing an issue that only matters for the top 5-10 Zerg - Check.
Ignoring issues that matters to most of the community like adepts, invulnerable nydus and flying tanks - Check.
Maybe Blizzard should start working on issues that matters to most of their ladder players, not just the top 0.1% ?
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oracles are actually garbage vs zerg now ;o
but adepts are still 
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On July 07 2016 10:18 Beelzebub1 wrote:
Not that I'm going to complain about buffs to my race, and it's not like they are so drastic that you can pull the, "David has no clue what he's doing" but it really seems like these buffs reinforce the notion that David has no real vision to fix actual issues and is more interested in PR band aid fixes to maintain a status quo of 50/50/50 balance which has already shown itself over the years to create stagnation and further declines in viewership (I don't know how many more tournaments SC2 is going to have if viewership keeps dropping) so I have to ask, where is the vision for this game?
Zerg is already great at playing defensive, creep is a powerful defensive tool, Queens and mobile static defenses are powerful defensive tools, Zerg doesn't really lack in areas of defense, we lack in areas of attack, are Liberators really even that OP at the higher levels? These changes will definitely make Liberators and Maru double drops weaker but will do nothing to incentivize Zerg moving out of their side of the map until Hive tech is out, engagements without Ultralisks/Broodlords/Adrenal are simply too punishing off of creep, especially vs. Terran.
Let's look at all of the exciting play offensive units that Zerg has and what their state in the current metagame is.
Mutalisks - Strongly buffed and then instead of nerfing the Mutalisk itself Liberators/Phoenix were made into hard counters which has made Mutalisk play borderline extinct. Mutalisk switches are just bad against Protoss, and 3 Liberators can pretty much a move through a pack of Mutalisks.
Infestors - laughably broken but nerfed into oblivion, any time I see these units they get a fungal off before they are popped in about a second flat, waste of gas, even Snute and Scarlett don't really touch them as they're too unwieldy and underwhelming.
Hydralisks - Mediocre in ZvP only in timing windows otherwise very very bad, almost totally non viable vs. Terran and ZvZ they are great for making Lurkers. Frail, sucks vs things it isn't supposed to suck against (Phoenix? Liberators?) and gas intensive, yet another iconic offensive Zerg unit left to the side lines to suck and keep us on our side of the map.
Viper - Used to be OP now it sucks ass in pretty much every match up outside of Mutalisk vs Mutalisk wars, Blinding Cloud is good against mech which isn't great, PB sucks against players that can can split at a Master league level and above, and consume (gasp surprise) keeps Vipers pretty much on their side of the map at all times because without energy they are floating defenseless 200 gas targets.
The solution is to give Zerg more offensive options, not continue to buff it's defensive options until turtling to Hive becomes the premium strategy to use in all match ups. The increased Queen range is also going to make ZvZ even more cheese friendly and volatile then it already is with Overlord scouting becoming much more difficult, 2 Queens can easily pick off a non speed Overlord.
I think they know this is not what's best for the long term, and I hope they'll come up with a better idea in the future. They have to patch something really fast because of the state of Zerg in Korea, given they have almost only two tournaments in which they can get points for Blizzcon and in one of them, SSL, Zerg are already almost completely out so I feel it's more a temporary emergency fix so they don't drop all out of GSL too.
On July 07 2016 11:57 Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 11:50 TheWinks wrote:On July 07 2016 11:35 xTJx wrote:
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them. The queen buff in Wings was a primary cause of the original decline of sc2 by causing blord/infestor. Queen range is not a minor change. Most tournaments these days are foreigner only where ZvT isn't imbalanced and may even be zerg favored. This actually threatens to negatively impact balance at every level below code S Korea even if Korea were to balance out. pretty sure queen range didnt cause bl infestor it was just zergs figuring out the meta
Indeed as Stephano was already doing it before the Queen buff, but it made it way too much easier to go there after the patch, which was the biggest problem.
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such booooring changes =(. I was hoping they would do one of those changes and keep testing. Would have loved to see testing for something unusual. A Queen dying does a buff or debuff to units or make lib AA almost non existent until you upgrade air weapons. Stuff that could be problematic w/o long testing.
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If they ever do a major revamp of all the problematic units, I sincerely hope they think about switching the roles between the tankivac and liberator. The liberator should be the versatile, more mobile and lower damage dealer, while the tank should be the static, slow and high damage unit (but weak when left alone in a bad position). And with this I mean remove the sieged tank pickup and buff the damage of course, the "old dream".
I think the stuff that needs to be looked at asap are: Ultra armor, swarmhost and cyclone changes/redesign, nydus permanent armor instead of invincible when building, make Battlecruisers viable somehow (change the basic attack to spell damage?).
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I am extremely disturbed that ranged-mineral-only-caster got buffed again. Why not reduce Liberator's range by -1 as previously proposed?
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A band aid patch fix. Nothing to get excited about. Hope they still have some truly nice gameplay fixes down the pipeline, they do right? Remember all the fanfare when LotV was announced? I am beginning to feel a bit sad about LotV honestly.
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On July 07 2016 18:11 pieroog wrote:
I am extremely disturbed that ranged-mineral-only-caster got buffed again. Why not reduce Liberator's range by -1 as previously proposed?
I guess that would make TvP unplayable.
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On July 07 2016 11:50 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 11:35 xTJx wrote:
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them. The queen buff in Wings was a primary cause of the original decline of sc2 by causing blord/infestor. Queen range is not a minor change.
Broodlord range has been buffed since lotv release, now the queen again + parasitic bomb. Good times ahead.
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United Kingdom20343 Posts
On July 07 2016 18:38 PinoKotsBeer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2016 11:50 TheWinks wrote:On July 07 2016 11:35 xTJx wrote:
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them. The queen buff in Wings was a primary cause of the original decline of sc2 by causing blord/infestor. Queen range is not a minor change. Broodlord range has been buffed since lotv release, now the queen again + parasitic bomb. Good times ahead.
15.8% BL range increase, viper buffs, crackling upgrade doubled in effectiveness and ultra armor giving +4 instead of +2 - LOTV has no shortage of hive buffs
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On July 07 2016 06:50 Odowan Paleolithic wrote:
RIP carriers [...]
made me chuckle
carriers right now
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EPT
