• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 03:30
CET 09:30
KST 17:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book6Clem wins HomeStory Cup 288HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info4herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 26-Feb 1): herO, Clem, ByuN, Classic win2RSL Season 4 announced for March-April7Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8
StarCraft 2
General
Clem wins HomeStory Cup 28 How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview
Tourneys
WardiTV Mondays $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000 WardiTV Winter Championship 2026 HomeStory Cup 28
Strategy
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? StarCraft player reflex TE scores
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread EVE Corporation Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Play, Watch, Drink: Esports …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1510 users

Legacy of the Void Balance Update -- July 6, 2016 - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
162 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
danl9rm
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States3111 Posts
July 06 2016 22:34 GMT
#21
On July 07 2016 06:33 Hexe wrote:
I remember when spores and spines took 30 seconds or a year


It was one of the things that had my eyebrows raised the most when I first started sc2. I never understood it.
"Science has so well established that the preborn baby in the womb is a living human being that most pro-choice activists have conceded the point. ..since the abortion proponents have lost the science argument, they are now advocating an existential one."
ShamanElemental1
Profile Joined April 2016
56 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-06 22:36:46
July 06 2016 22:35 GMT
#22
On July 07 2016 07:27 RCCar wrote:
Hi, TL! I come from near distant future 3 seasons after this patch.
1. Zerg Users: I feel the new AA buff for zerg promotes only Roach ravager play and I can't use mutas anymore its so unfair and everything sucks wah wah wah
2. DK buffs mutas
3. Toss, Terran players: Mutas are too strong they don't even die anymore seriously screw this we need buffs
4. DK buffs libs and photon overcharge
5. Toss, Zerg players: wah wah libs are too strong again we need buffs
Terran, Zerg players: PO is now one click defense against anything blah bla
I have warned you all.


This is "fake" mostly because DK never buffs Zerg like it used to do.

So no buff to Muta.

He will just band aid with even more buff to queens and nerf to liberators because pride and reasons

He just wants to see how many zergs gets to ro16 GSL
And only Dark will be there....

History will repeat like it was way back with Taeja being the sole winner with Terran but this time it will be Dark with Zerg.
jackacea
Profile Joined April 2014
66 Posts
July 06 2016 22:42 GMT
#23
Dont like the changes. It seems like 'turtle until hive' is the only acceptable Z strat at the moment, which is boring as hell.
praise kek
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17252 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-06 22:56:13
July 06 2016 22:51 GMT
#24
On July 07 2016 06:53 ejozl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 06:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
nice work guys. as i've been saying for a long long time Air is just too strong. From a purely subjective perspective a ground unit should be a lot stronger than an air unit on a $ for $ basis. Thanks for strengthening Ground based Anti-Air again.

On July 07 2016 06:40 Loccstana wrote:
Another nail in the coffin for banshee openers.

i play as terran 60% of the time and if my stupid banshee opener becomes a casualty or is substantially nerfed so be it. there is just too much Terran air in general in this game and i'm glad to see Terran air getting hit by balance patches.

DKs BNet Forum Post
for those of you at work or school with BNet blocked ... here u go people...
+ Show Spoiler +

Patch next week
After more playtests and more discussions with various people, we believe that it’ll be better to patch the current two changes to the live game sooner than later given the current situation. However, we do also want to point out that we definitely see the foreign community’s concern regarding the Queen buff, and we will definitely make sure to react quick if something breaks. But the two main reasons we would like to hurry up with this update is due to heavy feedback in favor of these changes on the KR pro side, and we also have a major tournament coming up in 2-3 weeks outside of Korea, so we would really love to push the change out to live as quickly as possible so that we can make necessary fixes before the WCS tournament if needed. So looking at this from both regions, it looks to be the right decision to patch quickly.

After the patch next week
We definitely hear your feedback regarding the potential for Ultralisk armor needing nerfs and the Liberator needing nerfs. We would really love to look at the impact of the Spore and Queen changes first before we start testing further changes. For example, if Zerg is performing much better in the early/mid game and are dominating in the late game, we can definitely take a look at the Ultralisk armor nerf, whereas if these changes were steps in the right direction but not enough, we can look at potential Liberator +light damage removal to its AA weapon.

Playing Skill vs. Game Design Skill
It’s been a while since we discussed more design philosophy based topics, and we noticed a topic being very big in the past couple weeks, so we wanted to share our thoughts regarding this. Specifically, we’re seeing a lot of posts discussing the importance of playing at a high skill level in order to be a good game designer.

Our thought is that these two have some overlap, but are different skillsets. We have seen so many examples of every mix of the two: A top player being so bad at game analysis, a top player being so good at game analysis, a bad player being so good at game design, and a bad player being also bad at game design. They’re just separate skills that one person can be good at none, one, or both of them. And the definition of a good player is so opinion based. For example, I’m currently in master league using random and if I say this to a pro player, they would think I’m pretty bad at the game. As compared to if I say this to a silver level player, they would think I’m good at the game.

The same goes for game design skills. Often times, game design skills are more difficult to quantify than say like awesome concept art skills or awesome programming skills. Interestingly, this is an area game designers on our team have a lot of discussions on regarding what an ideal game designer at Blizzard is, which is another fun topic that we can go into if there is desire for it for this in a future weekly update. And going more into detail on this current topic, the important thing for game designers working on SC2 is the ability to analyze game mechanics well. This is clearly a higher priority than playing the game at a pro level.

Just to finish off, we did want to ask a question that we ask ourselves often: In a perfect world scenario, would it be best to aim to have only game designers who are also the very best players at the game? Granted this might be near impossible to achieve, it is an interesting question because we can look at it from many different points of view. For example, I can argue that this is the best because the best player understand more parts of playing the game so he can analyze the game better as well. But I can also argue this isn’t ideal because he would be unable to see the game from a different perspective other than the top skill level, and the more ideal is to have a good mix of every type of gamer who all are good game designers.

We wanted to share our thoughts here because this is a fun topic to discuss, and we’ve also been leaning a bit more towards one way or another over the years on our team as well. Because there necessarily isn’t one, clear, perfect answer to this question, please let us know your thoughts as well and we will look forward to exploring this discussion from a potentially different angle!

Don't you think they should target the air units though?


that is 1 possible approach. buffing ground anti-air is another. i'm just glad they did 1 of the 2. as a diamond player i really only feel i should deliver a generalized message to Blizzard. Leave it to Boxer and Flash ( and of course Avilo cause is better than both those guys) to tell Blizzard whether the StimPack should last 11 seconds or 11.2 seconds or 10.98 seconds.

as a crappy player the granularity of my feedback should be low. my general message to Blizzard is that Terran air is too strong and i rely on that strength too much in my games.

when i play zerg and protoss i get pounded by terran air too much and its too big a part of terran's arsenal.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
redloser
Profile Joined May 2011
Korea (South)1747 Posts
July 06 2016 23:01 GMT
#25
man, this might even up the score but it would only further enhance the 3-base turtle into ultra style IMO.
JackONeill
Profile Joined September 2013
861 Posts
July 06 2016 23:20 GMT
#26
Who wants 3 bases ultra rush to be the only way to play ZvT? Well blizzard does.
Loccstana
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
United States833 Posts
July 06 2016 23:32 GMT
#27
Blizzard, could Terran get a build time reduction and range buff to missile turrets as well? Those warp prisms are annoying to deal with.
[url]http://i.imgur.com/lw2yN.jpg[/url]
Shield
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bulgaria4824 Posts
July 06 2016 23:33 GMT
#28
On July 07 2016 08:20 JackONeill wrote:
Who wants 3 bases ultra rush to be the only way to play ZvT? Well blizzard does.


That's why they won't have more viewers in sc2. Too little focus on fun gameplay. Nerfing stuff like oracles and similar options which destroy mineral line in a few seconds is a key to get more casual players playing sc2.
Pontius Pirate
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
United States1557 Posts
July 06 2016 23:34 GMT
#29
On July 07 2016 06:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
nice work guys. as i've been saying for a long long time Air is just too strong. From a purely subjective perspective a ground unit should be a lot stronger than an air unit on a $ for $ basis. Thanks for strengthening Ground based Anti-Air again.

Show nested quote +
On July 07 2016 06:40 Loccstana wrote:
Another nail in the coffin for banshee openers.

i play as terran 60% of the time and if my stupid banshee opener becomes a casualty or is substantially nerfed so be it. there is just too much Terran air in general in this game and i'm glad to see Terran air getting hit by balance patches.

This is a bit of a tangent, but I'd like to see them move Banshee cloak to the late game and push Hyperflight Rotors as the early-game Banshee cheese upgrade. I could see it forcing early spire or Phoenix openings, whereas cloak just forces detection in a rather bland way.
"I had to close the door so my parents wouldn't judge me." - ZombieGrub during the ShitfaceTradeTV stream
sc2chronic
Profile Joined May 2012
United States777 Posts
July 06 2016 23:34 GMT
#30
fuck u balance team, and fuck this patch. this isnt what zergs need right now. marine metank marauder are literally raping zergs like nanking

with balances like completely removing any air units in zvp with your clever designs, who needs a design team? why not just handle the project to 5th graders

User was temp banned for this post.
terrible, terrible, damage
sc2chronic
Profile Joined May 2012
United States777 Posts
July 06 2016 23:36 GMT
#31
and by "removing air units" i mean the old balance of making mutas and corrupters totally unviable unless u get the offchance that protoss is literally blind and doesnt scout the spire. because infinite damage from phoenix with no chance of ever gettting damaged is smart design
terrible, terrible, damage
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20323 Posts
July 06 2016 23:41 GMT
#32
So no buff to Muta.


Mutas are actually pretty good, we've just thrown a ton of overpowered counters into the game since they were overbuffed in the HOTS beta
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
PinoKotsBeer
Profile Joined February 2014
Netherlands1385 Posts
July 07 2016 00:15 GMT
#33
On July 07 2016 08:32 Loccstana wrote:
Blizzard, could Terran get a build time reduction and range buff to missile turrets as well? Those warp prisms are annoying to deal with.

Or perhaps turrets when an orbital is done like in the beta.
http://www.twitch.tv/pinokotsbeer
Beelzebub1
Profile Joined May 2015
1004 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 01:19:38
July 07 2016 01:18 GMT
#34
Not that I'm going to complain about buffs to my race, and it's not like they are so drastic that you can pull the, "David has no clue what he's doing" but it really seems like these buffs reinforce the notion that David has no real vision to fix actual issues and is more interested in PR band aid fixes to maintain a status quo of 50/50/50 balance which has already shown itself over the years to create stagnation and further declines in viewership (I don't know how many more tournaments SC2 is going to have if viewership keeps dropping) so I have to ask, where is the vision for this game?

Zerg is already great at playing defensive, creep is a powerful defensive tool, Queens and mobile static defenses are powerful defensive tools, Zerg doesn't really lack in areas of defense, we lack in areas of attack, are Liberators really even that OP at the higher levels? These changes will definitely make Liberators and Maru double drops weaker but will do nothing to incentivize Zerg moving out of their side of the map until Hive tech is out, engagements without Ultralisks/Broodlords/Adrenal are simply too punishing off of creep, especially vs. Terran.

Let's look at all of the exciting play offensive units that Zerg has and what their state in the current metagame is.

Mutalisks - Strongly buffed and then instead of nerfing the Mutalisk itself Liberators/Phoenix were made into hard counters which has made Mutalisk play borderline extinct. Mutalisk switches are just bad against Protoss, and 3 Liberators can pretty much a move through a pack of Mutalisks.

Infestors - laughably broken but nerfed into oblivion, any time I see these units they get a fungal off before they are popped in about a second flat, waste of gas, even Snute and Scarlett don't really touch them as they're too unwieldy and underwhelming.

Hydralisks - Mediocre in ZvP only in timing windows otherwise very very bad, almost totally non viable vs. Terran and ZvZ they are great for making Lurkers. Frail, sucks vs things it isn't supposed to suck against (Phoenix? Liberators?) and gas intensive, yet another iconic offensive Zerg unit left to the side lines to suck and keep us on our side of the map.

Viper - Used to be OP now it sucks ass in pretty much every match up outside of Mutalisk vs Mutalisk wars, Blinding Cloud is good against mech which isn't great, PB sucks against players that can can split at a Master league level and above, and consume (gasp surprise) keeps Vipers pretty much on their side of the map at all times because without energy they are floating defenseless 200 gas targets.

The solution is to give Zerg more offensive options, not continue to buff it's defensive options until turtling to Hive becomes the premium strategy to use in all match ups. The increased Queen range is also going to make ZvZ even more cheese friendly and volatile then it already is with Overlord scouting becoming much more difficult, 2 Queens can easily pick off a non speed Overlord.
Aegwynn
Profile Joined September 2015
Italy460 Posts
July 07 2016 01:21 GMT
#35
Zerg has so many weaknesses but queen is definetly not one of them. This is a really bad band-aid as usual.
CruelZeratul
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany4588 Posts
July 07 2016 01:51 GMT
#36
Is the patch already live?
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9421 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 02:24:53
July 07 2016 02:24 GMT
#37
nice work guys. as i've been saying for a long long time Air is just too strong. From a purely subjective perspective a ground unit should be a lot stronger than an air unit on a $ for $ basis.


The problem isn't static defense, but core ground units to air that is generally too weak.
xTJx
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil419 Posts
July 07 2016 02:35 GMT
#38
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them.
No prejudices, i hate everyone equally.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
July 07 2016 02:39 GMT
#39
Bigger changes probably won't come until after Blizzcon during the off-season.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
TheWinks
Profile Joined July 2011
United States572 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-07 02:50:49
July 07 2016 02:50 GMT
#40
On July 07 2016 11:35 xTJx wrote:
This patch is the pit to SC2 burial. Viewership has never been so low and Blizzard doesn't care about the gameplay, just throwing random buffs to see if that helps with ZvT win-loss ratios, not even seriously adressing the balance issues, which is the minimum of the minimum expected from them.

The queen buff in Wings was a primary cause of the original decline of sc2 by causing blord/infestor. Queen range is not a minor change.

Most tournaments these days are foreigner only where ZvT isn't imbalanced and may even be zerg favored. This actually threatens to negatively impact balance at every level below code S Korea even if Korea were to balance out.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 30m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft637
ProTech150
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3205
Leta 695
Larva 314
JulyZerg 111
Shuttle 62
Noble 30
Mind 27
Backho 26
zelot 17
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm153
League of Legends
JimRising 710
C9.Mang0361
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King123
Westballz71
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor205
Other Games
summit1g6733
Happy528
mouzStarbuck146
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1421
BasetradeTV93
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 16
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH227
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos890
• HappyZerGling110
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3h 30m
WardiTV Winter Champion…
6h 30m
OSC
15h 30m
Replay Cast
1d
Wardi Open
1d 3h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 8h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
LiuLi Cup
2 days
Reynor vs Creator
Maru vs Lambo
PiGosaur Monday
2 days
LiuLi Cup
3 days
Clem vs Rogue
SHIN vs Cyan
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
LiuLi Cup
4 days
Scarlett vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs herO
Online Event
5 days
LiuLi Cup
5 days
Serral vs Zoun
Cure vs Classic
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.