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On June 11 2016 03:57 Musicus wrote:
Balance
While this might come as a bit of a surprise, we’re still getting a lot of feedback from specific Korean pro players that Zerg has no chance vs. Terran.
i can totally believe this. RTS games are completely different experiences at different APM levels.
if you end up nerfing Terran please nerf an air unit. please do not worry too much about the whiners that are lower than top level. THe most important balance is at the top level. If that means my Terran diamond account ends up in Platinum due to a nerf you guys make... i don't care and no mature adult should care.
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On June 11 2016 04:44 KatatoniK wrote:
Odd... I can't remember the last time my PvZ winrate wasn't below 30%. Oh wait, yes I do. Back in HotS. Protoss does not need nerfing at all, PvT is in a nice spot but PvZ has been horrific since beta and the collossus buff hasn't helped a bit. All Zerg have to do is continue to tech switch and harrass expansions that Protoss can't defend and win easily.
Upping the larva spawn rate isn't going to fix TvZ issues at all while making PvZ even more problematic. Blizz need to identify what exactly is causing the issue (I bet it's liberators or something) and nerf accordingly.
We are playing different games then. I was mid masters protoss in hots and pvz was my best matchup with 60% winrate. Take third. defend. move out. collect points. And it became worse since then. What tech switches are you talking about? i got no idea. Muta play is dead. period. All zerg is doing these days is desperately trying to defend from adepts drops/allins in eary/mid while praying to somehow tech to broodlords before protoss makes his ground/air deathball.
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Fix mech pls.
Yours truly, since 2010.
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Going from 3 to 4 larva will make the queen buff look like an inconsequential change in comparison.
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I'd take 1 supply roaches instead.
Nydus network and worm should be re-priced. Network 150/150. Worm 100/100 when placed off creep. Worm 50/50 and silent (no global scream) when placed on creep. Remove invincibility while building worms. Numbers are just for reference; the idea is just cheaper mainly for worm on creep.
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On June 11 2016 04:49 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 04:34 insitelol wrote:On June 11 2016 04:25 Elentos wrote:
Nobody makes disruptors in Korean PvZ but the Zergs still switched to ling/bane. Go figure. Ok disruptors AND immortals. Why would you build banelings against immortals. The banelings are there to beat adepts, and they do a pretty good job at it.
We were talking about the reasons zergs switched to ling/bate vs p. You are trying to say that's because of the adpets? Don't you think roaches would be a much more solid choice vs units that do a bonus damage to light units such as lings/banes? But when was the last time you saw a roach in that mu? Oh wait.
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On June 11 2016 04:33 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 04:26 Lexender wrote:
No info about the cyclone, how is it taking them more than a week to fix a bug? Last community update they already said that they would fix it the next time the game was updated. They don't need to repeat themselves.
Yeah, thats kind of what I'm getting at, why does it take so long to fix this bug? isn't it simply changing the cooldown from 9 to 4?
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On June 11 2016 05:02 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 04:49 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 11 2016 04:34 insitelol wrote:On June 11 2016 04:25 Elentos wrote:
Nobody makes disruptors in Korean PvZ but the Zergs still switched to ling/bane. Go figure. Ok disruptors AND immortals. Why would you build banelings against immortals. The banelings are there to beat adepts, and they do a pretty good job at it. We were talking about the reasons zergs switched to ling/bate vs p. You are trying to say that's because of the adpets? Don't you think roaches would be a much more solid choice vs units that do a bonus damage to light units such as lings/banes? But when was the last time you saw a roach in that mu? Oh wait.
Protoss players a-moved hydra/lurker with chargelot/archon/immo. They also open with adepts.
So zergs added banenlings, because they can help you defend the adept openings without roaches (which as you said get countered by immos) and they counter the chargelots (In response we saw builds where Protoss players don't get charge at all and the sentry made it's comeback).
It also allows for some cute overlord drop plays.
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Get rid of healing ability of the medivac (maybe make it an upgrade) and reintroduce the medic-footman to reduce harrass-efficiency of terrans, while they are at the same time insensitive to being harassed due to the mule.
Also rather add micro options for zerg so the skillceiling is raised, instead of giving all zergs an overall buff.
However, I'd like to see a testmap with increased larvae to actually see the impact of the change.
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On June 11 2016 05:02 insitelol wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 04:49 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 11 2016 04:34 insitelol wrote:On June 11 2016 04:25 Elentos wrote:
Nobody makes disruptors in Korean PvZ but the Zergs still switched to ling/bane. Go figure. Ok disruptors AND immortals. Why would you build banelings against immortals. The banelings are there to beat adepts, and they do a pretty good job at it. We were talking about the reasons zergs switched to ling/bate vs p. You are trying to say that's because of the adpets? Don't you think roaches would be a much more solid choice vs units that do a bonus damage to light units such as lings/banes? But when was the last time you saw a roach in that mu? Oh wait.
Roaches don't DPS down the adepts fast enough so you lose your entire worker line before they die, while banes are more vulnerable to adepts but also do a much better job killing them.
On June 11 2016 05:04 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 04:33 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 11 2016 04:26 Lexender wrote:
No info about the cyclone, how is it taking them more than a week to fix a bug? Last community update they already said that they would fix it the next time the game was updated. They don't need to repeat themselves. Yeah, thats kind of what I'm getting at, why does it take so long to fix this bug? isn't it simply changing the cooldown from 9 to 4?
I'm sure they've already fixed it. They won't schedule a patch for a single change though, so they're probably working on other fixes before we get a patch.
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rofl, terran > zerg according to blizzard ? I may not have followed the EU scene lately .. oh wait
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On June 11 2016 05:15 Twine wrote:
rofl, terran > zerg according to blizzard ? I may not have followed the EU scene lately .. oh wait
Oh I guess you don't know. Most foreign terrans suck ass as Terran. It's been true since 2010. If you remove Korea, Terran doesn't look very strong. You add the Koreans and Terran is amazingly powerful. Games being balanced around the highest level, not lower level players.
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On June 11 2016 05:09 CyanApple wrote:
Get rid of healing ability of the medivac (maybe make it an upgrade) and reintroduce the medic-footma
I'm pretty sure that would just ruin TvP because then adepts can kill your healers and your marines.
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On June 11 2016 05:17 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 05:15 Twine wrote:
rofl, terran > zerg according to blizzard ? I may not have followed the EU scene lately .. oh wait Oh I guess you don't know. Most foreign terrans suck ass as Terran. It's been true since 2010. If you remove Korea, Terran doesn't look very strong. You add the Koreans and Terran is amazingly powerful. Games being balanced around the highest level, not lower level players.
Across GSL, SSL, and Cross Finals terran was the least represented and least successful race. Not by some massive margin, but it's still a true statement. If what you and these "specific kespa pros" are saying is true, shouldn't terran be dominating in Korea? There certainly would not be nearly as much pushback on this if terran was actually blowing everyone away in Korea.
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These statements aren't really new though. I remember Korean Terrans saying that TvZ is around 90-10 Terran favored even back in January. And since then the map pool got worse for Zerg.
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On June 11 2016 05:15 Twine wrote:
rofl, terran > zerg according to blizzard ? I may not have followed the EU scene lately .. oh wait
Seriously, comments like this make me angry, it's not according to Blizzard, it's according to Korean pros/KeSPA.
Blizzard is not hating on Terran guys and they are not suggesting anything, they are just communicating with us. They are literally just quoting the Korean pros, so that we know how the feedback from Korea looks and therefore won't be surprised and yell "this is coming out of nowhere, Blizzard has no idea about the game" if they eventually test the changes KeSPA suggests.
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On June 11 2016 05:27 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 05:15 Twine wrote:
rofl, terran > zerg according to blizzard ? I may not have followed the EU scene lately .. oh wait Seriously, comments like this make me angry, it's not according to Blizzard, it's according to Korean pros/KeSPA. Blizzard is not hating on Terran guys and they are not suggesting anything, they are just communicating with us. They are literally just quoting the Korean pros, so that we know how the feedback from Korea looks and therefore won't be surprised and yell "this is coming out of nowhere, Blizzard has no idea about the game" if they eventually test the changes KeSPA suggests.
Which Korean pros though? And what exactly are they saying? During the height of blink Rain claimed that terran was literally on the level of blord/infestor. Did his state as a Kespa pro make that idea any less laughable?
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On June 11 2016 05:29 TheWinks wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2016 05:27 Musicus wrote:On June 11 2016 05:15 Twine wrote:
rofl, terran > zerg according to blizzard ? I may not have followed the EU scene lately .. oh wait Seriously, comments like this make me angry, it's not according to Blizzard, it's according to Korean pros/KeSPA. Blizzard is not hating on Terran guys and they are not suggesting anything, they are just communicating with us. They are literally just quoting the Korean pros, so that we know how the feedback from Korea looks and therefore won't be surprised and yell "this is coming out of nowhere, Blizzard has no idea about the game" if they eventually test the changes KeSPA suggests. Which Korean pros though? And what exactly are they saying? During the height of blink Rain claimed that terran was literally on the level of blord/infestor. Did his state as a Kespa pro make that idea any less laughable?
Didn't they explain the way they gather feedback from Korea before? I think KeSPA gathers the opinions of all their players and then delivers the most dominant opinions to Blizz.
Anyway it doesn't matter. 4 Larva sounds ridiculous to me, yes. But then please say "KeSPA/Korean pros have no idea what they are doing" or "rofl, Terran > Zerg according to Korea?".
If you have to complain, please blame the Koreans instead of blaming Blizzard. Blizzard is just showing us how the Korean feedback looks, they are not agreeing with them. But of course the feedback of the best players in the world does hold some weight.
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Return to us the infestor! Powerful killing fungals. Not tickling toe rot.
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reddit had a pretty interesting suggestion (credit Scusl)
If you don't want Zerg Larva to be op in the early game maybe go with this;
Hatchery: 3 Larva per inject
Lair: 4 Larva per inject
Hive: 5 Larva per Inject
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EPT
