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This is just hillarious. Who even cares about the game anymore, watching DK's trollish shenanigans is more fun than actually playing.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Seems to me that if they keep patching the game every month or so the meta will never actually settle and hence prevent any kind of 'balance' from occurring
also I wish they stopped saying 'cool factor', it makes me seriously cringe
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Two years since I completely stopped following sc2.
Was hoping to see sc2 turned into something worthy, albeit with a small but very strong community. Guess some things never change. David Kim is still here, and game is still shit.
User was warned for this post
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On April 12 2016 09:54 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 09:46 CheddarToss wrote:On April 12 2016 09:32 Scarlett` wrote:
dont think ive won a lategame zvp game in over a month (even on ladder); and ive played probably 750+ games in that time Funny that you would say that. Watching Neeb's, Puck's and State's stream (and a bit of Le Twilight Council --> Lilbow and Drogo) it seems to me that Protoss either dies in the early game or sustains such an absurd amount of damage, that he dies in mid or late game. When Protoss win with the Chargelot/Immo/Archon/Phoenix push, it mostly feels that Zergs botched their positioning rather than Protoss being strong. What I mean by that is, that after all this time, hardly any Zerg spreads their Lurkers sufficiently. It boggles my mind how little most Zergs do to control their army. Lurkers clumped up, almost on top of each other, so that they can get lifted by Phoenix with minimal losses to the Protoss or focused fired by Immos in a blink of an eye. And instead of working on improving the positioning, we get to hear how imba Immortals are. You're expecting Zerg to micro? Come on man... you should know better  But it's true. This may be like marine splitting back in the day... Zergs simply need to control their units better. Split the lurkers. With 9 range, spreading them out means that the Protoss units would have to spend more time walking in between fighting lurkers. It's common sense. You still see top Korean pros just burrow 7 lurkers right there on top of each other.
Funny to talk about micro when toss immortal/archon/charge attack is literally a-move and enjoy straight at the centre of zerg concave
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On April 12 2016 12:18 ihatevideogames wrote:
This is just hillarious. Who even cares about the game anymore, watching DK's trollish shenanigans is more fun than actually playing.
Yeah it is fun.
I also enjoy watching CA release games for the Total War Series. Rome 2 Total War was probably the most unfinished game I've ever seen released, and just about everything CA said about the game was a flat out lie. It was really funny watching them try to explain and defend the garbage they released.
And now with Total War Warhammer being released, we already see them pulling the same stuff, like the Chaos DLC, and watching the community rage and their pathetic response is excellent, just excellent. As fun as watching The Donald run for President.
It is good time to be a spectator.
On April 12 2016 13:35 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 09:54 DinoMight wrote:On April 12 2016 09:46 CheddarToss wrote:On April 12 2016 09:32 Scarlett` wrote:
dont think ive won a lategame zvp game in over a month (even on ladder); and ive played probably 750+ games in that time Funny that you would say that. Watching Neeb's, Puck's and State's stream (and a bit of Le Twilight Council --> Lilbow and Drogo) it seems to me that Protoss either dies in the early game or sustains such an absurd amount of damage, that he dies in mid or late game. When Protoss win with the Chargelot/Immo/Archon/Phoenix push, it mostly feels that Zergs botched their positioning rather than Protoss being strong. What I mean by that is, that after all this time, hardly any Zerg spreads their Lurkers sufficiently. It boggles my mind how little most Zergs do to control their army. Lurkers clumped up, almost on top of each other, so that they can get lifted by Phoenix with minimal losses to the Protoss or focused fired by Immos in a blink of an eye. And instead of working on improving the positioning, we get to hear how imba Immortals are. You're expecting Zerg to micro? Come on man... you should know better But it's true. This may be like marine splitting back in the day... Zergs simply need to control their units better. Split the lurkers. With 9 range, spreading them out means that the Protoss units would have to spend more time walking in between fighting lurkers. It's common sense. You still see top Korean pros just burrow 7 lurkers right there on top of each other. Funny to talk about micro when toss immortal/archon/charge attack is literally a-move and enjoy straight at the centre of zerg concave
What is really funny is when I came back to play LOTV, I found myself with an army composition versus Zerg that consisted of Blink Stalkers, Adepts, Phoenixes, Sentries, Disruptors, a MSC and High Templars. I realized that group of units was totally overwhelming to use compared to my Zerg opponent who was going Roach/Hydra/Lurker/Muta/Ling. I can count the abilities those units have on one hand, with one finger.
So I watched some pro streams to figure out what to do and saw them using Immortals/Archon/Chargelots and I realized that even they couldn't properly control the mess Blizzard created by giving so many Protoss units active abilities that require micro.
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On April 12 2016 13:35 RaFox17 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 09:54 DinoMight wrote:On April 12 2016 09:46 CheddarToss wrote:On April 12 2016 09:32 Scarlett` wrote:
dont think ive won a lategame zvp game in over a month (even on ladder); and ive played probably 750+ games in that time Funny that you would say that. Watching Neeb's, Puck's and State's stream (and a bit of Le Twilight Council --> Lilbow and Drogo) it seems to me that Protoss either dies in the early game or sustains such an absurd amount of damage, that he dies in mid or late game. When Protoss win with the Chargelot/Immo/Archon/Phoenix push, it mostly feels that Zergs botched their positioning rather than Protoss being strong. What I mean by that is, that after all this time, hardly any Zerg spreads their Lurkers sufficiently. It boggles my mind how little most Zergs do to control their army. Lurkers clumped up, almost on top of each other, so that they can get lifted by Phoenix with minimal losses to the Protoss or focused fired by Immos in a blink of an eye. And instead of working on improving the positioning, we get to hear how imba Immortals are. You're expecting Zerg to micro? Come on man... you should know better But it's true. This may be like marine splitting back in the day... Zergs simply need to control their units better. Split the lurkers. With 9 range, spreading them out means that the Protoss units would have to spend more time walking in between fighting lurkers. It's common sense. You still see top Korean pros just burrow 7 lurkers right there on top of each other. Funny to talk about micro when toss immortal/archon/charge attack is literally a-move and enjoy straight at the centre of zerg concave
That's because if literally anything else were viable, we'd be using it.
YOU try controlling a Phoenix disruptor mothership core sentry high templar blink stalker ball and tell me how you fare.
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On April 12 2016 14:08 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 13:35 RaFox17 wrote:On April 12 2016 09:54 DinoMight wrote:On April 12 2016 09:46 CheddarToss wrote:On April 12 2016 09:32 Scarlett` wrote:
dont think ive won a lategame zvp game in over a month (even on ladder); and ive played probably 750+ games in that time Funny that you would say that. Watching Neeb's, Puck's and State's stream (and a bit of Le Twilight Council --> Lilbow and Drogo) it seems to me that Protoss either dies in the early game or sustains such an absurd amount of damage, that he dies in mid or late game. When Protoss win with the Chargelot/Immo/Archon/Phoenix push, it mostly feels that Zergs botched their positioning rather than Protoss being strong. What I mean by that is, that after all this time, hardly any Zerg spreads their Lurkers sufficiently. It boggles my mind how little most Zergs do to control their army. Lurkers clumped up, almost on top of each other, so that they can get lifted by Phoenix with minimal losses to the Protoss or focused fired by Immos in a blink of an eye. And instead of working on improving the positioning, we get to hear how imba Immortals are. You're expecting Zerg to micro? Come on man... you should know better But it's true. This may be like marine splitting back in the day... Zergs simply need to control their units better. Split the lurkers. With 9 range, spreading them out means that the Protoss units would have to spend more time walking in between fighting lurkers. It's common sense. You still see top Korean pros just burrow 7 lurkers right there on top of each other. Funny to talk about micro when toss immortal/archon/charge attack is literally a-move and enjoy straight at the centre of zerg concave That's because if literally anything else were viable, we'd be using it. YOU try controlling a Phoenix disruptor mothership core sentry high templar blink stalker ball and tell me how you fare.
The point was that both zvp armies require roughly tge same amount of micro, not that P can make ineffective one that takes more micro
At this point im not sure if youre trying to strawman through every argument or simply are this dense
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If Blizzard haven't seen this coming it's their fault and failure. They should look past winrates and look at games. No matter what winrates are, the PvZ matchup has obvious problems.
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On April 12 2016 15:11 Tuczniak wrote:
If Blizzard haven't seen this coming it's their fault and failure. They should look past winrates and look at games. No matter what winrates are, the PvZ matchup has obvious problems.
Couldn't agree with this more. Study the games.... not the numbers...
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On April 12 2016 04:40 Clonester wrote:
Never ending circle:
Players created new, "imbalanced" meta
DK talks about issues in the balance in the new "balance report" and "looks into it"
Players start adepting
DK gives out balance test map
Players finally overcome "inbalance" by adepting
DK see this, stops talking about the balance changes
Players find out that the new meta thanks to adepting seems to need a new answer and thus looks imbalanced
DK talks about issues in the balance in the new "balance report" and "looks into it"
Proving people complain too much and just need to focus on playing the game instead!
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Maybe a bunker build time change would help.
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On April 12 2016 15:26 virpi wrote:
Maybe a bunker build time change would help.
this guy knows wheres its at
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On April 12 2016 09:54 DinoMight wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 09:46 CheddarToss wrote:On April 12 2016 09:32 Scarlett` wrote:
dont think ive won a lategame zvp game in over a month (even on ladder); and ive played probably 750+ games in that time Funny that you would say that. Watching Neeb's, Puck's and State's stream (and a bit of Le Twilight Council --> Lilbow and Drogo) it seems to me that Protoss either dies in the early game or sustains such an absurd amount of damage, that he dies in mid or late game. When Protoss win with the Chargelot/Immo/Archon/Phoenix push, it mostly feels that Zergs botched their positioning rather than Protoss being strong. What I mean by that is, that after all this time, hardly any Zerg spreads their Lurkers sufficiently. It boggles my mind how little most Zergs do to control their army. Lurkers clumped up, almost on top of each other, so that they can get lifted by Phoenix with minimal losses to the Protoss or focused fired by Immos in a blink of an eye. And instead of working on improving the positioning, we get to hear how imba Immortals are. You're expecting Zerg to micro? Come on man... you should know better But it's true. This may be like marine splitting back in the day... Zergs simply need to control their units better. Split the lurkers. With 9 range, spreading them out means that the Protoss units would have to spend more time walking in between fighting lurkers. It's common sense. You still see top Korean pros just burrow 7 lurkers right there on top of each other.
'Zerg players sucks thats why they lose'
Yeah okay you are totally not biased man
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For me the biggest problem with lategame ZvP is forcing favorable engagements.
I spread my lurkers, position my banes, put hydras in a concave, put all units where they have to be. Then Protoss comes in, sees it aand... is lile "LOL not engaging that, see ya. Also you got 10 zealots in your base, and now my phoenices are harrassing your 5th. You took units away to defend? Okay now I engage! gg ez"
I cant then just follow him into his base for example, because it completely nullifies any kind of advantage I had before. Going Hivetech turtle is the best option for me, because Broods allow me to force an engagement - but because stargate is out, I cant just get broodlords and be dpne with it. So more turtle with AA, allowing Protoss to get every tech he wants, completely shutting down my lategame army because it sucks vs Protoss.
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4713 Posts
On April 12 2016 04:42 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 04:38 Nerchio wrote:On April 12 2016 04:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On April 12 2016 04:35 Nerchio wrote:
Nerf medivacs/ immortal/ liberator/ ravager/ tempest/ carrier/ warp prism/lurker
Buff infestor
ggwp perfect game I can understand why you would want to nerf the units you mentioned, but why on earth buff the infestor? It's only used these days for fungal in combination with ravager bile otherwise it's totally useless, they should bring back upgraded infested terrans since right now infestor is the worst spellcaster in the game. On April 12 2016 04:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On April 12 2016 04:35 Nerchio wrote:
Nerf medivacs/ immortal/ liberator/ ravager/ tempest/ carrier/ warp prism/lurker
Buff infestor
ggwp perfect game Nerf carrier? Does anyone seriously make carriers right now? No they don't but it doesn't change the fact that they are too strong  sOs makes carriers and wins with them. I would be very wary of IT buff, because do we really want to go back to the days of spawning infinite free 3/3 marines all over every other army in the game....?? The end of one WoL game in particular comes to mind. It was a GSL match between a zerg (I think it was Symbol) vs mass skytoss, heavily upgraded carriers/voidrays. The zerg just sprayed ITs everywhere and the entire protoss air army died to free 3/3 units. EDIT: I'm sure stuchiu knows what game I'm thinking of, I've seen it posted in random threads around here before. It was on Daybreak if that helps at all... (I know, there were a lot of games on Daybreak.)
I think it was a game vs MC or Creator, they were the only crazy dudes that tried to make mass skytoss work back then and I specifically remember some of their games on Daybreak.
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
On April 12 2016 16:20 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 04:42 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On April 12 2016 04:38 Nerchio wrote:On April 12 2016 04:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On April 12 2016 04:35 Nerchio wrote:
Nerf medivacs/ immortal/ liberator/ ravager/ tempest/ carrier/ warp prism/lurker
Buff infestor
ggwp perfect game I can understand why you would want to nerf the units you mentioned, but why on earth buff the infestor? It's only used these days for fungal in combination with ravager bile otherwise it's totally useless, they should bring back upgraded infested terrans since right now infestor is the worst spellcaster in the game. On April 12 2016 04:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On April 12 2016 04:35 Nerchio wrote:
Nerf medivacs/ immortal/ liberator/ ravager/ tempest/ carrier/ warp prism/lurker
Buff infestor
ggwp perfect game Nerf carrier? Does anyone seriously make carriers right now? No they don't but it doesn't change the fact that they are too strong sOs makes carriers and wins with them. I would be very wary of IT buff, because do we really want to go back to the days of spawning infinite free 3/3 marines all over every other army in the game....?? The end of one WoL game in particular comes to mind. It was a GSL match between a zerg (I think it was Symbol) vs mass skytoss, heavily upgraded carriers/voidrays. The zerg just sprayed ITs everywhere and the entire protoss air army died to free 3/3 units. EDIT: I'm sure stuchiu knows what game I'm thinking of, I've seen it posted in random threads around here before. It was on Daybreak if that helps at all... (I know, there were a lot of games on Daybreak.) I think it was a game vs MC or Creator, they were the only crazy dudes that tried to make mass skytoss work back then and I specifically remember some of their games on Daybreak.
In the end of WoL MC came with a composition that worked vs BL-infestor armies. 4-6 carriers, VR, few Colossi, HT, Mothership. This actually worked and worked pretty well. Though it was bloody hard to get there.
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On April 12 2016 04:30 PinoKotsBeer wrote:
Not only protoss late game is a nightmare for Zerg but also for terran.
nope, thats a missconception.
terran are unable to ever reach their real lategame army, because transitioning is close to impossible.
as for zerg i agree: very lategame, the zerg army is the worst.
the reason being tempest+oracle outranging everything, while still losing the airfight when approaching [corruptors scale badly] (terran has an easier time attacking into it or - if they ever got there, which they can't, dealing with it with mass scans and pdd).
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I'm wondering how much of the PvZ kinda-low-winrate (but very depending on the leagues) is due to balance of the idiotic maps protoss had to deals with. Like seriously, maps with two free golds base are almost freewin for zerg, and these maps with extremely small air distance has led to very strong all-in build which took a lot of time for protoss to learn how to play against.
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Nine Carriers, nine Void Rays and six to twelve Tempeste with a Mothership make up the golden Protoss armada that is unbeatable.
A reward I can appreciate for surviving the early and mid game hell Terran and Zerg like throw at me!
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On April 12 2016 16:20 Destructicon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 04:42 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On April 12 2016 04:38 Nerchio wrote:On April 12 2016 04:36 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On April 12 2016 04:35 Nerchio wrote:
Nerf medivacs/ immortal/ liberator/ ravager/ tempest/ carrier/ warp prism/lurker
Buff infestor
ggwp perfect game I can understand why you would want to nerf the units you mentioned, but why on earth buff the infestor? It's only used these days for fungal in combination with ravager bile otherwise it's totally useless, they should bring back upgraded infested terrans since right now infestor is the worst spellcaster in the game. On April 12 2016 04:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:On April 12 2016 04:35 Nerchio wrote:
Nerf medivacs/ immortal/ liberator/ ravager/ tempest/ carrier/ warp prism/lurker
Buff infestor
ggwp perfect game Nerf carrier? Does anyone seriously make carriers right now? No they don't but it doesn't change the fact that they are too strong sOs makes carriers and wins with them. I would be very wary of IT buff, because do we really want to go back to the days of spawning infinite free 3/3 marines all over every other army in the game....?? The end of one WoL game in particular comes to mind. It was a GSL match between a zerg (I think it was Symbol) vs mass skytoss, heavily upgraded carriers/voidrays. The zerg just sprayed ITs everywhere and the entire protoss air army died to free 3/3 units. EDIT: I'm sure stuchiu knows what game I'm thinking of, I've seen it posted in random threads around here before. It was on Daybreak if that helps at all... (I know, there were a lot of games on Daybreak.) I think it was a game vs MC or Creator, they were the only crazy dudes that tried to make mass skytoss work back then and I specifically remember some of their games on Daybreak.
It was MC on Daybreak. I remember that game, he went VR/Carrier/HT/Mothership and essentially solved Broodlord/Infestor before the nerf. He used Carriers like Tempests and was able to zone the Zerg. I believe it was literally the last pro game before the nerf too.
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EPT
