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The_Templar
your Country52798 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:03 Solar424 wrote: Zest was a top 5 Protoss for over a year Dear was a top 5 Protoss for about a week Dear was a top 1 protoss for a few weeks until sOs came in. Still not Zest level or even close, though. I don't think he should be in the top 10. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:03 Solar424 wrote: Zest was a top 5 Protoss for over a year Dear was a top 5 Protoss for about a week Nobody is saying Dear was better than Zest. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:01 BlackZetsu wrote: Dear won a Code S and WCS Season 3 finals in 2013, and made it to the Ro4 in Code S Season 3 2015 (and a Top 4 at 2013 Hot 6 Cup which you think is such a wonderfu acomplishment for Zest). The fact that Dear isn't on the list shows how rampant the fanboyism is in this community. A good looking guy like Zest wins a few tournaments over a few months, Artosis starts hyping him, and people don't care what he does the rest of his career. Zest's Hotsix cup != Dear's. Different format and harder run. Dear literally only beat RorO to get to the ro8 as it was only an 8-man tournament. Zest went through PartinG, Terminator, and Soulkey before narrowly meeting his end at the hands of MKP (who randomly went back to being one of the best TvP players of all time for 1 tournament). And if we're downplaying Zest's insane 2014, how in the world does Dear hold a candle to anyone here when his only wins were all the way back in 2013 and very close together? He's #17-16 at best imo. PartinG beats him for being far more consistent at a higher level for longer. Soulkey for similar reasons and for being a GSL champ (and having a hell of a run to get his title). Taeja won numerous stacked foreign events but none as great as a GSL. Both had about a year of irrelevancy Bomber, Polt and MMA are similar to Taeja. Lesser tournaments but numerous deep runs. Bomber and MMA even snuck in a ro4 WCS KR run each. ByuL didn't start posting big individual league results until quarter 2 of 2015, but when he did he was on fire and maintained a stronger peak than Dear ever did for longer. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:11 The_Templar wrote: Dear was a top 1 protoss for a few weeks until sOs came in. Still not Zest level or even close, though. I don't think he should be in the top 10. The question is which of the Korean individual league champions does not deserve Top 10? There were 9 players who won one or more Korean individual leagues in Korea in HotS: Soulkey Maru Dear Zest Classic Innovation Life Rain herO The question is, who else did something more impressive than winning a Korean individual league? The only players who did are soO, with his quadruple 2nd place finish at GSL, and sOs, who won 3 World Championships, Hot6 Cup, and had the most wins in Proleague in 2014 (tied with herO). So which of these players should be kicked off the Top 10? It can only be Soulkey or Dear. Dear won a WCS Season Finals in addition to his GSL, and also rebounded strongly at the end of 2015 by making it to the GSL Ro4. He also won Hot6 Cup in 2013. Soulkey on the other hand was basically out of the scene by 2015. Soulkey deserves #11. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:26 BlackZetsu wrote: The question is which of the Korean individual league champions does not deserve Top 10? There were 9 players who won one or more Korean individual leagues in Korea in HotS: Soulkey Maru Dear Zest Classic Innovation Life Rain herO The question is, who else did something more impressive than winning a Korean individual league? The only players who did are soO, with his quadruple 2nd place finish at GSL, and sOs, who won 3 World Championships, Hot6 Cup, and had the most wins in Proleague in 2014 (tied with herO). So which of these players should be kicked off the Top 10? It can only be Soulkey or Dear. Dear won a WCS Season Finals in addition to his GSL, and also rebounded strongly at the end of 2015 by making it to the GSL Ro4. He also won Hot6 Cup in 2013. Soulkey on the other hand was basically out of the scene by 2015. Soulkey deserves #11. By that logic I'm throwing ByuL's hat into the ring. 3 consecutive Starleague finals (+ro4 Kespa Cup, and ro8 SSL) run. Two of which were at the same time. While being a top-ranked SPL player and doing so at probably the worst era for Zerg in HotS. Hard brackets as well | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:29 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: By that logic I'm throwing ByuL's hat into the ring. 3 consecutive Starleague finals (+ro4 Kespa Cup, and ro8 SSL) run. Two of which were at the same time. While being a top-ranked SPL player and doing so at probably the worst era for Zerg in HotS. Hard brackets as well It's good logic. Byul is definitely top 12. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:23 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Zest's Hotsix cup != Dear's. Different format and harder run. Dear literally only beat RorO to get to the ro8 as it was only an 8-man tournament. Zest went through PartinG, Terminator, and Soulkey before narrowly meeting his end at the hands of MKP (who randomly went back to being one of the best TvP players of all time for 1 tournament). And if we're downplaying Zest's insane 2014, how in the world does Dear hold a candle to anyone here when his only wins were all the way back in 2013 and very close together? He's #17-16 at best imo. PartinG beats him for being far more consistent at a higher level for longer. Soulkey for similar reasons and for being a GSL champ (and having a hell of a run to get his title). Taeja won numerous stacked foreign events but none as great as a GSL. Both had about a year of irrelevancy Bomber, Polt and MMA are similar to Taeja. Lesser tournaments but numerous deep runs. Bomber and MMA even snuck in a ro4 WCS KR run each. ByuL didn't start posting big individual league results until quarter 2 of 2015, but when he did he was on fire and maintained a stronger peak than Dear ever did for longer. I never said Dear was better than Zest. I said Dear is at the margin of top 10. I have him 10 overall because he won GSL, and WCS Season 3 2013, and a Hot6 Cup. Parting did not win a single tournament in Korea in HotS so he is definitely not Top 10. And your obvious Zest fanboyism is shining through, ignoring his weak tournaments (IEM Katowice) and 8 player tournaments ("GSL Global Tourney") while leveling them as arguments against Dear. | ||
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Ensiferum8
Canada103 Posts
On March 11 2016 10:01 BlackZetsu wrote: Dear won a Code S and WCS Season 3 finals in 2013, and made it to the Ro4 in Code S Season 3 2015 (and a Top 4 at 2013 Hot 6 Cup which you think is such a wonderfu acomplishment for Zest). The fact that Dear isn't on the list shows how rampant the fanboyism is in this community. A good looking guy like Zest wins a few tournaments over a few months, Artosis starts hyping him, and people don't care what he does the rest of his career. Fun Fact. TY is the cutest pro gamer by far. Zest is a 4/10 | ||
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swissman777
1106 Posts
On March 11 2016 12:46 Ensiferum8 wrote: Fun Fact. TY is the cutest pro gamer by far. Zest is a 4/10 What's up with the looks discussion anyway? We make jokes but I don't think the community as a whole ever loved a player due to one's looks. I mean Hero's good looking but is rarely talked about because he's not as good as before. If you are looking for people who actually care about the looks, then go to Justin Bieber's fanclub or sth. | ||
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Ensiferum8
Canada103 Posts
On March 11 2016 12:55 swissman777 wrote: What's up with the looks discussion anyway? We make jokes but I don't think the community as a whole ever loved a player due to one's looks. I mean Hero's good looking but is rarely talked about because he's not as good as before. If you are looking for people who actually care about the looks, then go to Justin Bieber's fanclub or sth. Liquid HerO looks quite decent, but only without earing. But still, TY is the cutest. I agree | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 11 2016 12:55 swissman777 wrote: What's up with the looks discussion anyway? We make jokes but I don't think the community as a whole ever loved a player due to one's looks. I mean Hero's good looking but is rarely talked about because he's not as good as before. If you are looking for people who actually care about the looks, then go to Justin Bieber's fanclub or sth. Well at the end of the day it's a business, and the business wants Artosis writing articles on ESPN with a picture of chiseltoss, not chintoss. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On March 11 2016 07:55 BlackZetsu wrote: Winning a Korean individual league is the most difficult accomplishment in Starcraft. Only 3 players were able to do it twice in Heart of the Swarm. And Classic has prestigious "extras" that fully justify a Top 5 placement: IEM Shenzhen 2015 Championship over Parting (where he also had to defeat Rain and herO) 2 Top 4 finishes at Blizzcon Zest won 4 noteworthy tournaments, 3 of which occurred within a relatively tight timeframe from April to September 2014. He was literally nobody before then, and his only other accomplishment is winning IEM Katowice 2015, which is impressive but everyone knows the quality of his opponents at that tourney was weak (weaker than Classic's at IEM Shenzhen). You also have to factor in that the better player will get better at the game as time goes on. Zest's results indicate that he was pretty much figured out by the end of 2014 (at least in Korea), whereas Classic was still able to win another Tier 1 Korean tournament. For this reason I don't even think Zest should be ranked higher than herO, who got better and better at HotS as the game matured and finished 2015 with an SSL championship. Again, Zest is obviously a very good player, and he's definitely Top 10. But his championships and consistency are worse than Classic's. And there are easily 5 players who accomplished more than Zest in HotS - Classic, Maru, Innovation, Life and sOs. I don't know why you think Classic was more consistent. After his GSL win he dropped out in the RO32 next season. After his good Blizzcon run he bombed out in the first round of the Hot6ix cup/SSL failed to make GSL. Then he won SSL a season later and bombed out again in the next season. That sure ain't consistency. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
On March 11 2016 14:16 Phredxor wrote: I don't know why you think Classic was more consistent. After his GSL win he dropped out in the RO32 next season. After his good Blizzcon run he bombed out in the first round of the Hot6ix cup/SSL failed to make GSL. Then he won SSL a season later and bombed out again in the next season. That sure ain't consistency. More consistent than Zest, who did nothing in 2013, won an individual league in 2014, then never won another individual league. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Top Hots players: 1. sOs 2. Life 3. Innovation 4. Classic 5. Maru 6. herO 7. Rain 8. Zest 9. soO 10. Byul 11. Polt - for his consistency and eating top koeans during OP race era 12. Dear 13. Soulkey 14. Parting | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16100 Posts
The only real list is this one: 1. Life 2. TaeJa 3. sOs 4, INnoVation 5. herO 6. Zest 7. soO 8. Maru 9. PartinG 10. Classic Everyone who disagrees with this list is just biased and doesn't want to see the truth because I'm the only human who can accurately rank players and all other so called "rankings" in this thread are made by people who know nothing about the game. | ||
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Silvana
3713 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany16100 Posts
On March 12 2016 01:19 MarianoSC2 wrote: BlackZetsu is right. The whole list is a joke. All of the Top 15 plyers of all time lists contaning Taeja are nonsense. Putting him into top3 is just an insult to SC2 pro players and the game itself. + completely agree with oveestimating players such as sOO and Zest as well. Top Hots players: 1. sOs 2. Life 3. Innovation 4. Classic 5. Maru 6. herO 7. Rain 8. Zest 9. soO 10. Byul 11. Polt - for his consistency and eating top koeans during OP race era 12. Dear 13. Soulkey 14. Parting BTW there is absolutely NO reason to put Polt in the top 15 and TaeJa not. | ||
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BlackZetsu
United States179 Posts
It should be based on number of Top 16 finishes at Homestory Cups! | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On March 11 2016 23:20 BlackZetsu wrote: More consistent than Zest, who did nothing in 2013, won an individual league in 2014, then never won another individual league. If you don't think he was consistent during 2014 then I don't know what to say to you  You poor soul. | ||
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Chant1
37 Posts
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